Axlf wrote:
Aloha from Hawaii i am so confused by the way so called models think first off when they are asking for paid assignments for some odd reason thet do not understand what that means. They think that it means everyone who wants images of then pays and then they get all rights to the images, What IDIOT tells thease girls this shit. I just don't get this the photographer is the most important person on set matter of fact models you so can be replaced a person with skills behind the camera is way harder to find than a girl who looks good with a body, If you want to get ahead in the business then pay to get work done stop asking to get paid most models and i mean the real ones did not get paid when they started out so what makes you so special that you can say pay me for my time, Well i mean no one wants to do something for nothing true that but understand when you ask for money you will have no rights to the images at all all you have to do is take the cash and bingo all rights have been given to the photographer, And this is a two way street, A photographers time is worth way more than yours ever will be period no photographer no images look at it that way. and this is onlt directed to the girls who want cash so that they can turn arround and use the images for thier ports and sell them on thier sites......

I could probably give you a proper response if I were to spend 30 minutes or so figuring out what this actually says.

Wynd Mulysa wrote:
I could probably give you a proper response if I were to spend 30 minutes or so figuring out what this actually says.

Broken 'return' key is second only to the broken 'caps lock' key when keyboards need to be repaired, apparently.

Axlf wrote:
Aloha from Hawaii i am so confused by the way so called models think first off when they are asking for paid assignments for some odd reason thet do not understand what that means. They think that it means everyone who wants images of then pays and then they get all rights to the images, What IDIOT tells thease girls this shit. I just don't get this the photographer is the most important person on set matter of fact models you so can be replaced a person with skills behind the camera is way harder to find than a girl who looks good with a body, If you want to get ahead in the business then pay to get work done stop asking to get paid most models and i mean the real ones did not get paid when they started out so what makes you so special that you can say pay me for my time, Well i mean no one wants to do something for nothing true that but understand when you ask for money you will have no rights to the images at all all you have to do is take the cash and bingo all rights have been given to the photographer, And this is a two way street, A photographers time is worth way more than yours ever will be period no photographer no images look at it that way. and this is onlt directed to the girls who want cash so that they can turn arround and use the images for thier ports and sell them on thier sites......

And why do some photographers think that models put no money or time in to being there to help with their(the photographer's) portfolios....c'mon! Just have a discussion prior to the photoshoot to discuss expectations and sign the agreement....why is this so hard to do? And if its only the 'internet models' that you have issues with, then dont use them; go with agency.
I agree with the first reponse to your question (who is a photographer,btw) you need to tone
down the 'holier than thou' attitude.....

Axlf wrote:
Aloha from Hawaii i am so confused by the way so called models think first off when they are asking for paid assignments for some odd reason thet do not understand what that means. They think that it means everyone who wants images of then pays and then they get all rights to the images,

No most models do know that they do not get the images when they get paid work, although each negiotaion is diffrent and many photographers will work with a lower rate for a few images. example:

photographer pays model 200.00 for two hours or 150.00 $ 5 prints or 20 prints.

Axlf wrote:
What IDIOT tells thease girls this shit.

someone whi is very generous in his pay there are many generous people out there I work with several of them.

Axlf wrote:
I just don't get this the photographer is the most important person on set matter of fact models you so can be replaced a person with skills behind the camera is way harder to find than a girl who looks good with a body,

With an attitude like that you will be shooting trees and landscapes soon.
on MM alone there are 111 photographers listed and 148 models listed.

Axlf wrote:
If you want to get ahead in the business then pay to get work done stop asking to get paid most models and i mean the real ones did not get paid when they started out so what makes you so special that you can say pay me for my time, Well i mean no one wants to do something for nothing true that but understand when you ask for money

I must be fake I was offered paid jobs right off the bat. I did however pay for my first portfolio work but I have a marketable lookfor figure work and I did not have to get "experenced" before I was getting paid jobs. I also disagree that my time is less important than your.

Axlf wrote:
you will have no rights to the images at all all you have to do is take the cash and bingo all rights have been given to the photographer, And this is a two way street, A photographers time is worth way more than yours ever will be period

Once again how do you come up with this idea???

Axlf wrote:
no photographer no images look at it that way.

Well then I guess you get to go back to shooting trees and flowers.

Axlf wrote:
and this is onlt directed to the girls who want cash so that they can turn arround and use the images for thier ports and sell them on thier sites......

Soo what makes you so great as a photographer that you are qualified to charge models for images?

Don't write checks your camera can't cash.

Axlf wrote:
To Iona well lucky you then i see you think you are still in the fifth grade good show on the put downs. and as for my grammer SHUT IT i am not a writer, like i said if we pay you you own no rights to the images and vise versa And as for my atitude girls like you who think you are gods gift to men are why i get pissed i am a true artist and I can say this because i depend on nobody to get my end result no graphic designer saves me from a fuc* up i should not be doing in the first place I put allot of thought into my work befor i take the shot and i pay allot post shooting props makeup artist and so on and what money do girls put into a shoot well some of you don't and as for the ones that do KUDOS to you and thanks for understanding it is not easy to take images in a natural setting and make them come out semi ok so if you think you can do a better job then let's see it, If not then don't say nothing on our side of the fence and this is not only internet models most of the girls i shoot are not into the internet,
And as for the rights on who owns the images if paid the surpreme court allready states if you are paid you give up all rights to the work being paid for unless otherwise worked out between both parties a general statement not just for photographers and models, And you said you were paid for your work then you above all people should know that who pays for the work owns the work otherwise why pay you at all. And as for why i should get paid everyone who is a photographer and i meand a photographer not some monkey who picks up a camera and points it at something and pushes the button, should get paid for his of her work we create the end result not the model, Like i said no photographer no images and i am fully aware that allot of you up and comming models do not think this way but the ones that do really hurt the business on the amature side that is,

that just simply hurts my head to read...

Why don't you take all this as a starting point to negotiation and negotate further with the models in which you want to work with.  Most I've found are pretty reasonable to negotiate if they like your work.  But please - the way you write, will dictate to some extent how professional you appear.

Axlf wrote:
YES good feedback love it thanks to all and again sorry for the grammer not my best subject, It's just i shoot commercial work meaning the models have it in thier heads that they are going to use them for A) Portfolios or B) Internet sales C) Promos ie this will make them money. So why do they ask to get paid ? Sorry i am not an amature photographer by no means i am human and do get upset over things like everone else. I guess this site is not for above average photographers to find up and comming models and help them on thier way my bad for thinking on this level. Had a long email from a photographer from this site and well it was quite an eye opener allot of hobbiest on this site and not working professionals i had no idea on this and thank him for pointing this out to me. Well im just tired of the so called models asking to be paid for work they clearly want to use to try and get them paid work and not pay to get it done well thanks again Mahalo.

So, you get some negative feedback,(what did you expect with that attitude) and now you just insult everyone on this site....
You sir, are a piece of work! Stay on the island, ok?

Kaitlin Lara wrote:
I count 3 periods over 16 lines of text. 3. I congratulate you sir...you are officially the MMer whose writing irritates me the most.

Very funny.

Axlf wrote:
What it says is don't ask photographers to pay you you do have the right to demand payment so that you can use the images for your own self centered agenda, ie make money off of someones art work when you were paid, If you are paid you get nothing ohh im sorry NOTHING no images no rights well maybe some images but no right to use then in your ports nor use them on your sites, Companies pay you not photographers so get it strait unless otherwise stated between both parties ie TFP/TFCD hope that clarifies things......

Thanks, that's a little better.

Anyway..

I do mostly paid work. 
And I don't expect anything but rent money.
Most of the photographers I have worked with have been kind enough to include, without my asking, anywhere from three photos to the entire set on CD/DVD.  I'm thankful for this as I can use them in my portfolio.  They give me the images to use in my portfolio and sometimes, in theirs, add my name to the "copyright" section.   These are things that a lot of the photographers I've worked with practice.  Maybe that can teach you that photographers all do things differently.

I don't sell the images, though, and don't know of anyone who would pay a model and then give her images to sell.  I can see what you mean about that.

Also... "if you think you can do a better job then let's see it, If not then don't say nothing on our side of the fence" goes for you, too.

You obviously do not appreciate a good model and think that they put no effort into the shoot.  So, like Iona suggested, maybe you should only shoot landscapes.

Iona Lynn wrote:
Don't write checks your camera can't cash.

Quotable chicks are hot!....

jason messer wrote:
heres an idea....

dont worry about it.... move on.

you are in hawaii for crying out loud.

freaking paradise....and you are going to let dumb stuff occupy space in your head?

Are those real?

Experimental Photoworks wrote:
*hops over to the the photographers side of the fence*

I STILL think your attitude twards models sucks, and you should go back to shooting landscapes...

Iona Lynn

forget about him what about my lei????

Experimental Photoworks wrote:
Your not getting laid untill you learn to spell better 

Axlf wrote:
If you are paid you get nothing ohh im sorry NOTHING no images no rights well maybe some images but no right to use then in your ports nor use them on your sites,

How do you figure that? If a company pays me and It gets published (tear sheet) I can use that in my port. So How do you figure models get no rights to use shots in their portfolio.

It would be unethical for us to sell shots (ie pay sites), but thats just my opinion. I'm trying to be as little a bitch as possible here, just a little hormonally enraged and cranky!

Axlf wrote:
Aloha from Hawaii ......

Yeah, whatever.  Listen, I didn't read all your rant.  I read enough to know you're just hollerin' about models not knowing their stuff and implying how much better you are than to waste yor time with such beings.

It's really ironic too, because your expression is for the most part just incoherent!  My god, you have a 173 word sentence in your original post. You say grammar isn't your strong point. It's not even a weak point for you and it makes one not want to give you any consideration because it's so much work to pay attention to what you say.

I can't imagine a model wanting to work with you after reading this!  I didn't read all of what you've said because it just hurts too much. Your bio info on your MM page is full of typos and incomprehensible stuff and you're ranting there as well. You're just annoying to read. It's hard to imagine you're not annoying to just be around. Part of professionalism that you yell loudly about is communication ability.  Why don't you invest some effort in that.  Until then, you present yourself as a joke.

Axlf wrote:
... It's just i shoot commercial work meaning the models have it in thier heads that they are going to use them for....

WRONG!!

"shooting commerical work" DOES NOT MEAN "the models have it in their head...."

Do you actually mean that? 

So you shooting commercial work means that models misunderstand stuff?

Would you mind stop posting?  You're hurting everyone's brains.

Axlf wrote:
...I guess this site is not for above average photographers ...

OMG, my side is hurting....

Axlf wrote:
Aloha from Hawaii i am so confused by the way so called models think first off when they are asking for paid assignments for some odd reason thet do not understand what that means. They think that it means everyone who wants images of then pays and then they get all rights to the images, What IDIOT tells thease girls this shit. I just don't get this the photographer is the most important person on set matter of fact models you so can be replaced a person with skills behind the camera is way harder to find than a girl who looks good with a body, If you want to get ahead in the business then pay to get work done stop asking to get paid most models and i mean the real ones did not get paid when they started out so what makes you so special that you can say pay me for my time, Well i mean no one wants to do something for nothing true that but understand when you ask for money you will have no rights to the images at all all you have to do is take the cash and bingo all rights have been given to the photographer, And this is a two way street, A photographers time is worth way more than yours ever will be period no photographer no images look at it that way. and this is onlt directed to the girls who want cash so that they can turn arround and use the images for thier ports and sell them on thier sites......