Yerkes Photography wrote:
as i said a couple times ...

MM should have a feedback system , like ebay ....

but that would eliminate a buch of people ... and MM wouldnt get thier advertising dollars , then we would all be gone ....

Aren't you the guy who touched me inappropriately & then failed to pay me the $1000 you promised?


Such a feedback system would have to be administered.  Otherwise, it's "he said / she said" but without the "she said" part.  In other words, why should we believe you?  How do we know that you aren't the one who didn't show up or had a bad attitude or so forth? 

Then, suppose you do slam a model, and she can show that she lost future work because of that?  She could sue you.  She could sue MM.  Or, since the rating system is not administered, she can lie & slam you harder than you slammed her.

It would be a big, big mess, and it would make MM into a place that is less positive & constructive than it is today.

It is better to expend such energies into making sure that all terms were negotiated, that understandings were complete, and that references were thoroughly checked.  It is also better to expend that energy to improve your skills.

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
Personally I don't care for the pornagraphic side of the industry and if getting stiffed or fluffed or doing group anal gang bangs or whatever else your sick minds can dream up and this is what you are all about I say keep it to the pay sites. Keep MM pure for models and photographers to enjoy safely.

How did I know that was going to come out of your mouth?

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
Personally I don't care for the pornagraphic side of the industry and if getting stiffed or fluffed or doing group anal gang bangs or whatever else your sick minds can dream up and this is what you are all about I say keep it to the pay sites. Keep MM pure for models and photographers to enjoy safely.

Keeping this site 'pure' as you say is the whole point! However, due to a shared experience with ST, and having worked with this self proclaimed "professional", unfourtunatly this particular photographer has blown us off. Leaving us with nothing to show for many hours of our time per his request to test.

NOW, that said, many many models have had this happen I know, and many a photographer has in turn not followed through with the images ect...The problem here is that over the course of 6 months more and more models on this site have been specifically picked by this man and encountered the same issue as we have.
And we have somehow managed to keep finding one another by chance because in each instance these models have been too afraid to pursue this issue. Fear of backlash and being the only one is the most common thread.

Yes you can do your reference checks and such, we know this, but when the photographer is quite well known and has people consistantly tagging his page in regards to how "utterly amazingly beautiful" his work is, and how they are willing to walk the ends of the earth just for a single session with him, then it can be quite difficult to try and approach the subject of being blown off and treated horribly by this same person.

The rules of engagement on this site are also an issue. How are we to stop people like this from continuing in this unprofessional manner when we, as members of this site, are too afraid to ask questions about specific people in these forums, for fear that we will be banned for trying to come together and prove that a photographer such as he should be the one who is banned. I say this because he keeps doing this to not only models but stylists and MUA's alike-HE KNOWS HE CAN GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE NO ONE CAN OUT HIM!

If situations like these don't get handled by the Mod's stepping in, then once again the standard(s) is and are lowered. And this site becomes a sleazy free for all cloaked as a reputable community of professionals coming together to reach common goals.

K8ygirl wrote:
Yes you can do your reference checks and such, we know this, but when the photographer is quite well known and has people consistantly tagging his page in regards to how "utterly amazingly beautiful" his work is, and how they are willing to walk the ends of the earth just for a single session with him, then it can be quite difficult to try and approach the subject of being blown off and treated horribly by this same person.

The rules of engagement on this site are also an issue. How are we to stop people like this from continuing in this unprofessional manner when we, as members of this site, are too afraid to ask questions about specific people in these forums, for fear that we will be banned for trying to come together and prove that a photographer such as he should be the one who is banned. I say this because he keeps doing this to not only models but stylists and MUA's alike-HE KNOWS HE CAN GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE NO ONE CAN OUT HIM!

You could tag him with something not too rude, like

"Great to work with you, Still waiting on my images from 5-12-06"

"Great to work with you, Still waiting on my images from 12 weeks ago"


And then like, every 2 weeks or so, re-tag... It's not too rude, or offensive, but if anyone takes the time to read they'll see it.
Especially if everyone involved, MUA, Models, Stylists, etc,  did it also, it should be obvious that he did it alot.

K8ygirl wrote:

Keeping this site 'pure' as you say is the whole point! However, due to a shared experience with ST, and having worked with this self proclaimed "professional", unfourtunatly this particular photographer has blown us off. Leaving us with nothing to show for many hours of our time per his request to test.

NOW, that said, many many models have had this happen I know, and many a photographer has in turn not followed through with the images ect...The problem here is that over the course of 6 months more and more models on this site have been specifically picked by this man and encountered the same issue as we have.
And we have somehow managed to keep finding one another by chance because in each instance these models have been too afraid to pursue this issue. Fear of backlash and being the only one is the most common thread.

Yes you can do your reference checks and such, we know this, but when the photographer is quite well known and has people consistantly tagging his page in regards to how "utterly amazingly beautiful" his work is, and how they are willing to walk the ends of the earth just for a single session with him, then it can be quite difficult to try and approach the subject of being blown off and treated horribly by this same person.

The rules of engagement on this site are also an issue. How are we to stop people like this from continuing in this unprofessional manner when we, as members of this site, are too afraid to ask questions about specific people in these forums, for fear that we will be banned for trying to come together and prove that a photographer such as he should be the one who is banned. I say this because he keeps doing this to not only models but stylists and MUA's alike-HE KNOWS HE CAN GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE NO ONE CAN OUT HIM!

If situations like these don't get handled by the Mod's stepping in, then once again the standard(s) is and are lowered. And this site becomes a sleazy free for all cloaked as a reputable community of professionals coming together to reach common goals.

K8ygirl,

VERY WELL SAID....

ST

Foxy Tigress wrote:
...  and thats why paid shoots are SO MUCH EASIER to handle...

yep I agree 100%

Foxy Tigress wrote:
...  and thats why paid shoots are SO MUCH EASIER to handle...

Yes they would be if the model didn't cancel or no show.

Eric Jackson wrote:

Yes they would be if the model didn't cancel or no show.

I think you should rephrase that a little, don't say model canceling or no show,  say Someone cancels or no shows.  Models aren't the only ones that no show and cancels.  My wife drove 2 1/2 hours for a paid shoot, and the Photographer was a no show.

Iris Swope wrote:
You could tag him with something not too rude, like

"Great to work with you, Still waiting on my images from 5-12-06"

"Great to work with you, Still waiting on my images from 12 weeks ago"


And then like, every 2 weeks or so, re-tag... It's not too rude, or offensive, but if anyone takes the time to read they'll see it.
Especially if everyone involved, MUA, Models, Stylists, etc,  did it also, it should be obvious that he did it alot.

That would be a great idea.. but unfortunately... people can  DELETE  Tags they dont want on their page.

Yerkes Photography wrote:
as i said a couple times ...

MM should have a feedback system , like ebay ....

but that would eliminate a buch of people ... and MM wouldnt get thier advertising dollars , then we would all be gone ....

hmm that's an excellent idea!  feedback ratings yes!  well, but still sometime I've purchased on ebay from sellers with awesome ratings, but I didn't get what I wanted? so what are we supposed to do?

I've recently got stiffed from a photographer non MM, at least I don't think he's on here...
I cannot say he is "not professional" actually he does very good work and shoots TONS of celebrities...maybe that's why I'm just not worth his time or that's how he feels. I know he got all the images to the clients, the people I did makeuo on, yet somehow I was left out of the equation and have NOt received any image.  It was for an album cover, he told me to give him "a week" to get hi res. images to me... It's been 5+ weeks and he doesn't return any emails or phone call.  Thank You...

I would really like to make a contract from now on that photographers must sign saying they will in fact give me my alloted images within 21-30 days.  I feel that is fair.  I do my job, and everyone gets what I give THAT day, no waiting...why am I forced to wait, and wait, or not even get what I have put so much effort into? It's not right.

*Does anyone have suggestions on what to say exactly on this contract form that I would like to devise?  Thanks.
LMA

Iris Swope wrote:
You could tag him with something not too rude, like

"Great to work with you, Still waiting on my images from 5-12-06"

"Great to work with you, Still waiting on my images from 12 weeks ago"


And then like, every 2 weeks or so, re-tag... It's not too rude, or offensive, but if anyone takes the time to read they'll see it.
Especially if everyone involved, MUA, Models, Stylists, etc,  did it also, it should be obvious that he did it alot.

And al he has to do is hit the "delete tag"button and it's gone.
It's too bad that MM does not allow its membership to out these flakes and thus providing a sactuary for these people (the flakes) to stay in business at the expense of hard working people that put up their time, talent and resources into a shoot.

Foxy Tigress wrote:
...  and thats why paid shoots are SO MUCH EASIER to handle...

btw the shoot i was refering to , the album cover and promor shots for recording artist...that was a PAId shoot for me, yet I did not receive any images which I was prommised.
thanks

Yerkes Photography wrote:
MM should have a feedback system , like ebay ....

We do have a feedback system...it's called asking for references. If a photographer doesn't give you references, there's probably a reason. If you don't ask for them, you're probably an idiot.

AndrewG wrote:

That would be a great idea.. but unfortunately... people can  DELETE  Tags they dont want on their page.

True, but if you have to log in a couple of times everyday, to check and make sure that several people don't leave you unflattering tags. You might just get around to giving them their images, or atleast telling them why they can't have them.
  It would give him some incentive. Even though it's not fool-proof...

Kaitlin Lara wrote:

We do have a feedback system...it's called asking for references. If a photographer doesn't give you references, there's probably a reason. If you don't ask for them, you're probably an idiot.

REFERENCES may or may not work!  AGAIN, this particular photographer is great with getting images to some, and for for reason NOT with others.  He has said to me and to a few others that his paid work comes first.  I did my shoot over 6 monthes ago...and I know he has done multiple shoots and some have gotten their images and some not????   

The models have contacted multiple times.

Model's have posted TAG's on the photographers page,,,,  He deletes them.

Majority of MM thinks this photographer is a GOD, but unfortunately their is another side!!!

MalameelPhotography wrote:
I would suggest a rating system that didn't have feedback.  Maybe just a 1 out of 10 thing.  If you absolutly loved the photographer, then give them a 10, if you hated teh experience, then a 0.  Of course if MM locked that to your profile, then you could only vote once.  Of course setting up a new profile would be a work around, but if you could not rate in your first month, hopefully by then you have cooled off and grown up and decided not to continue wasting your time.

At least this way it doesn't become name calling.  Also, teh more positive experiences will overshadow a bad day.
M

That would be so perfect!!!!
Do the mod's read these?  Someone should see if that is possible??

Sharon

MalameelPhotography wrote:
I would suggest a rating system that didn't have feedback.  Maybe just a 1 out of 10 thing.  If you absolutly loved the photographer, then give them a 10, if you hated teh experience, then a 0.  Of course if MM locked that to your profile, then you could only vote once.  Of course setting up a new profile would be a work around, but if you could not rate in your first month, hopefully by then you have cooled off and grown up and decided not to continue wasting your time.

At least this way it doesn't become name calling.  Also, teh more positive experiences will overshadow a bad day.
M

I've also seen models list photogs on their profile as "Recommeneded" & "Not recommended"
Is that allowed? or will the mods come after you for doing that?

Iris Swope wrote:

I've also seen models list photogs on their profile as "Recommeneded" & "Not recommended"
Is that allowed? or will the mods come after you for doing that?

I think it is allowed and at least somthing you can do on your page.  However, I not a mod and I have no idea how to predict their picky nature.

Kaitlin Lara wrote:
We do have a feedback system...it's called asking for references. If a photographer doesn't give you references, there's probably a reason. If you don't ask for them, you're probably an idiot.

I read K8ygirl's profile. And for the guy she's talking about, checking his references wouldn't have been a problem. I'm sure he has plenty. But I venture to guess that even had she checked his references they would have come back glowing but the same outcome would have taken place.

MalameelPhotography wrote:
Of course, any rating system that is user controled if open to abuse no matter what anybody says. 

Also, sad to admit, I have taken a couple of months or more to return photos.  Not out of lazyness, but simply paid work came up.  I still kept the lines of communication open, but you can't predict the other person's views.  Every model I have ever shot has gotten their photos.  What rating would you give?
M

A couple of monthes isn't that bad...I can completely understand that things come up.  But yes, just be straight up and like you said keep the communication open.  This guy has said on MULTIPLE occasions to each person that the images are coming soon!  (with day's or a week).   

Ugh...I feel like I am beating a dead horse here.  LOL   
I was just going to count my experience (which was 2 full day's of shooting and another day of a partial shoot, and I brought in an assistant) as a loss and a lesson learned.  I am just upset when I hear that it continue to go on with other model's.

ST Hair and Makeup wrote:
Majority of MM thinks this photographer is a GOD, but unfortunately their is another side!!!

I recall a thread a while back, where people were offended that anyone would dare say anything bad about him....  Like he was their own child or something...  (though I didn't get to read the other original message, I saw their responses)

ST Hair and Makeup wrote:

A couple of monthes isn't that bad...I can completely understand that things come up.  But yes, just be straight up and like you said keep the communication open.  This guy has said on MULTIPLE occasions to each person that the images are coming soon!  (with day's or a week).   

Ugh...I feel like I am beating a dead horse here.  LOL   
I was just going to count my experience (which was 2 full day's of shooting and another day of a partial shoot, and I brought in an assistant) as a loss and a lesson learned.  I am just upset when I hear that it continue to go on with other model's.

Sadly, you are beating a dead horse.  Whats worst, is that this problem will continue.  However, I would blame the photographer as the most resposable since without him, nobody gets images.  It can happen from anybody to anybody at any level of the game. 

I woudl suggest to you as a MUA, to take your own pictures to at least document the event.  The MUA I use, she has a little digital camera that she uses to show case her work before it is retouched my the photographer.  She still gets my prints, but she always has something to prove her experiences.  The model doesn't really have this option and has to continue waiting...

M