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How much Photog Charge Models - No Experienced?
Here is the new topic! How much do photographers charge models for a shoot who have no experience/portfolio. I understand the meaning of TFCD/TFP, however too many new people on here or those who only worked with a few photographers assume that all photo shoots are free all the time. I just wanted to see what other photographers charge the models for a shoot? The only time I will not charge a person for a shoot is if they have a lot of experience, such as working with many photographers, being in mags, music videos and so on, however those who never shot before ever, that's a different story. There are sometimes where I do a TFCD shoot with someone, but it really depends on the situation and what they have to offer as a model for the pictures. I shoot on location all the time so my fee covers all general expenses, such as time at the shoot, my equipment, gas ( travel money ) to and from the shooting location and the person's proof CD that they get at the end of the shoot. When the shoot is done, the person gets a proof CD that is in a slide show format. This is to review the pictures and deicde which pictures they want to get retouched to use for their portfolio. Sometimes, I give a few retouched pictures to the person who shot with me, however the pictures I give are the ones that I retouched for my portfolio. If a person wants others retouched, there is a small charge. Models, Photographers.......what are your feelings are this topic? Tim Baker Photographer NY Sep 09 06 08:39 am Link i charge $45/hr. of shooting ... this way if it takes me an hour afterwards for editing , i'm still pullin $20+ per hour ... this is not alot , and most "getting into modeling" types can afford it ... this way youre not breaking them , and your making some money as well ... also , part of the "payment" is a model release ... that way , if you do get a great shot from it , you can use it ... am I out of line on this price , or is it too low ???? Sep 09 06 08:49 am Link For a model with no experience? Depends on a lot of different variables for me. Category of the shoot How much of a sucker I feel like being that day. Is she a real knockout? Was I just going to screw off that day anyway? Was I going to exeriment with something anyway and this gives me the 2 birds with one stone opportunity? Is she driving a Hummer of or Hugo? Sep 09 06 08:49 am Link Timothy Baker wrote: Nothing! Sep 09 06 08:53 am Link problem with "nothing" is this .... once word gets around the highschool that you are shooting girls for free , all 17 and 18 year old girls are in your email asking for you to shoot ... no shows , working around thier schedule , meeting and speaking to the 17yo parents , inexpiriance , unusable images , time , and wanting to feed your family makes you charge .... can you tell that i've gotten trapped before? Sep 09 06 09:01 am Link Yerkes Photography wrote: I didn't think or know you were talking about 17 year olds. My only advice to you now is RUN! Sep 09 06 09:03 am Link yeah , i dont shoot under 18 anymore unless the parents come to me ... it gets to be a hassle meeting the parents , and the parents comming on shoots wanting to "control" the shoot ... i just wont do it now ... but it generally starts when you shoot a girl who is just 18 , and her 17yo friends , and thier 17/18yo friends want pics too ... and most of them arent serious , they just want to put them on myspace ... $45/hr. usually separates the serious from the not so serious also ... then after a few shoots , i find out theyre serious .... no more charge .... Sep 09 06 09:09 am Link If I understand your question, basically you are shooting Senior Portraits. Those that want them will spend approximately $500 for 2 hours of the photographer's time and all the photos. If you provide just a CD and the family can do whatever they want with the photos, $150 to $250 for the same 2 hour session. You charge for the photos separately. And no, you won't be able to use the images for what you want, the parents bought them and most parents do not expect to find pictures of their kids popping up on the internet. Sep 09 06 09:21 am Link no , misunderstood .... we're talking about a girl/guy who wants to model ... has no expiriance , and no portfolio .... basicly green .... what do you charge them to help them get started ... ?? Sep 09 06 09:27 am Link Bob Randall Photography wrote: This is really stupid to say this. Why shouldn't he charge if models will pay? Just because you put it out for free, others shouldn't? Can you provide any rationale for this? Please, we're waiting to be amused. Sep 09 06 11:55 am Link $45-50 an hour is completely reasonable. When I'm deciding how to much to charge, I think about the wear and tear on my equipment (cameras, lenses, lights don't last forever) as well as things like whether or not the model will be good enough for me to use in my book and, frankly, how valuable my time is that week. I usually offer to retouch one or two shots for free, and beyond that I charge by the hour. Also, I would think about the market where you are but, again, I think $45-50 an hour is pretty reasonable just about anywhere. Sep 09 06 12:12 pm Link I charge experienced/non-experienced at the same rate. I do not TFP [TFP should never be refered to as working for free. it is a barter arrangement where there is supposed to be value, otherwise why do it?] as I've never found the need. I cannot see the logic of experienced photographers shooting TFP with inexperienced models. Makes no sense to me, but thats me. I will now and then shoot free tests for an exceptional new face, I'm curious, bored, for a friend, or a well-established model I've worked with on campaigns, or the odd editorial project. Sep 09 06 12:14 pm Link It partly depends on how good you are and whether you are really a good amateur or a professional making a living and covering overhead. Why are you being asked to shoot a portfolio by a newbie? Is it because you are cheap...or very good? I make a living at it..charge a minimum of $100 an hour or my day rate of $800. For a special, I charge $1,000 for a full portfolio with a half dozen looks shot over several locations including the studio and the model gets a contact sheet with all the images after outtakes, a leather portfolio with 12 9x12s (or 8x10s) and a CD with the same images in low res for showing only, not printable. These images are selected with the model's input but are ultimately my choice...I am, after all, the one with the most experience which is why he/she has come to me in the first place. I will only shoot TFP/TFCD if a) I have asked the person to model for me, or b) the model is so exceptional that I want their images in my portfolio so there is mutual benefit. Sep 09 06 12:23 pm Link Ok, well here is an answer. It takes a speical skill to shoot an inexperienced model and make her photos look great. It isn't easy. It is different than working with pro models. That said. Look at people in your area that do the same level of work that you do. You can't charge Bruce Talbot prices if you are not Bruce Talbot. I cahrge $350 for a 1/2 day with make-up artist, and $500 for a full day. Some people in Ca charge $1500-3000, some charge $50. I don't get a lot of paying work, but I also don't do a lot of advertising. I would not recommend charging by the hour, as it makes it hard later to say when the charing should start, and she/he will constantly be thinking about time rather than concentrating on your directions. 1/2 days are from: 9am-1pm or 1:30pm-5:30pm full days are from: 10am-7pm with a 1 hour break for lunch The questions I have for anyone before they start shooting for money are: 1. do you have studio strobes and seamless backgrounds (you should shoot both location and studio for any aspiring model so that she gets her headshot at the same time. Some old school agents only want to see studio images) 2. Do you understand how to angle a girl's body to make her look her best. (only overhead shots with overweight girls etc...) 3. Do you understand how to crop for different uses, i.e. actor's buisness card, acting headshot, commercial headshot etc.. 4. Do you have reflectors, or even better loction lights, and an understanding of how to use them on location? All of these are questions someone should ask themselves before marketing themselves as a professional photographer. You need to be able to give the girl's the best shots of their lives. I have linked to a photo of a first time models I shot with a while a ago to give an understanding of working with an inexperienced model. This model was very nervous around the camera, and had a very long torso with shorter legs. https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=41896 To make to answer short I don't think anyone should charge for photography unless it is their job and they are damn good at it. Star Sep 09 06 12:26 pm Link It's my opinion that we earn the right to be paid. We do that by listening to the agents. We do that by listening to the clients. We get tortured by the people who know better... and get thrown into tanks full of hungry sharks. This thread has one or two voices of reason - and a lot of clueless dribble. Sep 09 06 12:33 pm Link Sep 09 06 12:57 pm Link right on. and it's often easier to tease out unique expressions from the less experienced, as they tend to be less guarded and less set into their own poses. Sep 09 06 01:00 pm Link Photography is pretty much a free market economy. Itâs very easy to screw yourself Charge what you can get, if you are charging 100.00 for one hour shoot and your calendar is full then bump it up to 150.00 hour. If you are sitting at home doing nothing drop it to 50.00 hour or better yet go practice some more because your not ready to be charging anyhow. There is a lot more to running a business than just gas money and food, cameras wear out, memory cards go bad, printers die, paper runs out, business cards get used up, county business fees, state and local taxes, DBA has to be renewed, postage to mail in all those fees, domain names need to be renewed, hard drives crash, clients request background colors you do not have in your collection, your website gets more popular and now it costs 14.95 a month instead of 9.95 a month, lab quality printing, buying the actual portfolio, paying your CPA, and on and on and onâ¦â¦.all of this costs money yes some of it can be âwritten offâ but if you donât bring enough money to pay for it in the first place you are not going to be in business very long. No one cares if the "model" is experienced or not. It is a mistake to call these girls who are asking you for a shoot for myspace images âmodelsâ If you find a girl who is so blindingly beautiful that you just have to have her in your book then offer to shoot her for free. Models are no different for any other clients, if they are coming to you for images than see the information above. Most successful full time photographers that I know are in the 500 to 1000 half day range. Not including images that is the day rate usage and actual images are separate. Agrees with the shark analogy shoot what the client wants, it is their dime. Sep 09 06 01:09 pm Link I second the post above me. "experience is meaningless to good photographers" Some amateurs are great to work with and some will not lose the "deer in the headlights" look no matter what you do. America's Next Top Model is a perfect example; amazing photographic talent with full hair, makeup, location and styling teams and some girls just cannot take a good picture, no matter how many people are coaching her. There are all kinds of factors with this kind of work. I think given the nature of the "emerging professional" status of some photographers here and given their experience and skill level, a reasonable hourly rate is the way to go. As an aside, I wouldn't work with someone inexperienced for more than two hours. They get tired and less able to take good pictures as time goes on. That's been my experience. But then, as I always say, don't take any one person's advice too seriously. Including mine. Sep 09 06 01:14 pm Link I find it interesting that no models have posted a reply to this thread!! It seems to me that they all want free shots!!I usually charge between $150 to $500 depending on what I'm shooting.That doesn't onclude an MUA , that fee is seperate.MUA's need to talk to these "models" as well.If they want to be paid the money has to come from somewhere. jh Sep 09 06 01:23 pm Link I just was at a fair and found a local east bay photographers price list. He has this set up for portraits. No studio fee at all you just show up and get shot for 3 outfits. Then you pick the images to be touched up 158.00$ each non negotiable. if you choose three you get 4th free. Then he sells you prints an 8 x 10 is 63$ each. 5x 7 32$ each Models get up to 12 outfit changes 363$ for 500 8x 10 composite images (looks like 8x10 comp cards) All shoots have a 125.00 deposit non refundable unless more than 24 hour notice is given. Sep 09 06 10:49 pm Link Star wrote: I agree with everything in this post, Star. Too often, people seem to think that all they need to market themselves as a professional photographer and charge top rates is to buy a camera and a light or two. If you're going to charge for portfolio work, it had better be worthy of actually going in a portfolio - the kind that gets shown to agencies, too, not just on websites. Otherwise, practice makes perfect - the kind of practice that involves TFP or paying models, not trying to charge straight out of the gate, or when your work is okay but not that great. Sep 09 06 11:02 pm Link It depends on what the pro's in your area are charging. What I mean by "Pro's" is a photographer that makes his living shooting tests for the agencies, or commercial. Obviously, commercial will differ from tests. In Florida, photographers usually charge by the look. I charge $75.00 a look. If they do a full comp (which is most common), then I charge $60.00 a look, or $300.00 total. No time limit, no pic limit. I am on the low end compared to Miami. Again, this is usually dictated by what other photogs are charging in your area. I guess you could charge by the hour, but I've never heard of that. Sep 09 06 11:10 pm Link P.S.... I charge the same for experianced models as well. Every experienced model I've shot understands to get 'Professional" pics, they have to invest. If they don't pay me, the agents normally will. Sep 09 06 11:12 pm Link I don't charge for portfolio development. That's mainly because I don't do portfolio development. Why? Because I'm not a professional commercial or fashion photographer. What possible use could my photos be to an aspiring agency model? And to charge them for that? I do referrals--to people who could actually help them. Now, if a model wants to play and thus wander through my looking glass, that's a different story entirely. Sep 09 06 11:19 pm Link we also have to remember , the girls who are getting our work are gaining expiriance , and getting comfortable infront of a camera ... thats worth somthing ... also , there is oppurtunity for them to get jobs from our shots ... so , we take a few hours (not including the chance of a no show)to shoot ... edit ( i never give anyone photos of mine that are not edited , i call it finished) ... and either burn to cd or get prints , then set up another meeting to deliver the goods ... you could be talking 7-8hrs....or more ... - we get nothing , they get expiriance and the possibilty of jobs, maybe signing a $$$$ contract ... not me , i just want to cover some expenses and have a few dollars to pay my bills ... Sep 09 06 11:21 pm Link ya all gonna jump down my throat if i point out that if you have to ask in a forum, the answer for you should probably be $0? Sep 09 06 11:55 pm Link oldguysrule wrote: LMAO! Sep 09 06 11:59 pm Link oldguysrule wrote: I think I just fell in love with you Sep 10 06 12:35 am Link Experimental Photoworks wrote: awww *blush Sep 10 06 12:37 am Link the ignoramuses bitch while the players quietly do their thing. Sep 10 06 12:58 am Link I'll second that $0.00 for an un-retouched cd. The market is quickly filling with "photographer's" and And just about everyone is shooting. Someone will do it for free. Whether that is an amateur or a pro just starting out. Remember even a hundred monkeys typing for 100 years will type the Declaration of independence so she will get some good shots and some bad one from the photographer doing it for free. So the way I look at is that I get to practice some shots I want and I take some shots she wants. It allows me to experiment with light and other techniques that I will now know how to shoot when I have a paying clients. Keeps the creative juices going. Also I require models pose nude for me. That takes care of the under 18 crowd. If they can't pose nude or offer me a good reason to photograph them I charge $300 and hour or $1000 day rate for non-copyright photos all images on a cd no retouching. Or $55 sitting fee, and $20 a sheet and a $1.0 a minute retouching fee if they want retouching. I also print my own photos cost is about $2.00 a sheet in materials. $18 in overhead. Sep 10 06 01:47 am Link Webspinner wrote: too true most are to busy making money to complain or ask. Sep 10 06 01:49 am Link I shoot for loads of NY agencies and charge new faces and working models the same rate. Some agencies negotiate a better rate for a continual relationship that includes model test and good girls for editorials, etc. I charge approx $500 with a couple services. CD free, retouched prints $25. Separate professional clothes styling is a bit extra, but worth it. The real concern everyone should have is creating a product that really helps get models into an agency, book jobs, and earn models money. To do this doesn't just take photographic skills, but a good reading of the market, a model's place within it, and an ability to produce shots that agents like within the area the model will apply. I constantly talk with the agents and get feedback and see which shots they are ordering and what they are passing on. As a business professional, I think most of us strive not only to create photos, but create a valuable and sought after product. We are in an exceptional position to make or break people's dreams, and ethically (not necessarily legally) we ought to try our best to help models succeed and not just take their money. Best of luck Michael Creagh http://michaelcreagh.com Sep 10 06 07:13 pm Link If a model contacts me, I charge. If I contact a model, I don't charge or I pay. Sep 10 06 11:16 pm Link Photos By Deej wrote: Sounds good to me.The photographer I work for does it that way. Sep 10 06 11:25 pm Link I would like to pose the question: How much do models charge a photographer we little experience? And why do those photographers complain about model rates being too high? Maybe if bad photographers paid models, models could pay good photographers. It's just an observation. I don't mean to offend anyone and this should be taken very lightly. Sep 10 06 11:28 pm Link Sep 10 06 11:38 pm Link john hill wrote: Yeah, I could never figure it out either, I always prefer to get the stuff for free or cheeper. Don't know what's wrong with me! Sep 11 06 07:13 pm Link |
