Model
Nic B
Posts: 166
New York, New York, US
Angelica Perry wrote:
True enough, I am also a heterosexual female and sometghing about a womans body is nicer to look at than a guys, it's just weird to me that its like that. I don't think it's about women being inherently more attractive. I think it's about women's bodies currently being mainstream societal shorthand for sex. You spend your whole life seeing half-naked women being sexy on tv, in movies, etc and that's what becomes the personification of Sex and attractiveness in your head. Women are used to sell things to men AND to other women.
If they started suddenly started showing nothing but half-naked men, rather than women, the next generation of MMers would be talking about how women are simply not as attractive naked because of their breasts.
Oh. And I suspect that women don't watch porn as much as men because:
1) We're not expected to. (A hetero man who isn't excited about porn may run the risk of being called a fag.)
2) The format for most porn sucks. (If I want to see that much vagina, I'll get the hand mirror.)
Model
Alix Andrea
Posts: 3035
Los Angeles, California, US
Angelica Perry wrote:
True enough, I am also a heterosexual female and sometghing about a womans body is nicer to look at than a guys, it's just weird to me that its like that. HAHAHAhahaha, I always wondered this myself...
Photographer
- null -
Posts: 4576
Angelica Perry wrote:
True enough, I am also a heterosexual female and sometghing about a womans body is nicer to look at than a guys, it's just weird to me that its like that. You want to know why? Truthfully?
Simple conditioning by society.
We all like to see ourselves as "independent thinkers" who do not have to conform to the "mindless lemming mentality" of our own culture. But guess what - we do conform to that. We ALL do. Yes, even those of you who have tattoos and piercings and go to Burning Man. You are conformists too. Every human being is a conformist to their culture to SOME degree. It is a part of our natural human nature to conform in such ways. The WHOLE REASON that society even EXISTS in the first place is due to our natural NEED to be social beings and form social groups.
Therefore, you wonder why looking at a woman is nicer? Because our culture tells you it is. Our culture is homophobic and does not like naked males. You are a part of our culture. Therefore, even if you attempt to "think outside the box" and be "open minded" about things, on a certain level, you can't. Because you have been conditioned to think this way.
Creepy thought. I know that I sure as hell don't want to see myself that way. I want to believe that I can think for myself and not conform to what our culture dictates to me. But if I'm honest with myself, I know that is not true. On some level, I am imprisoned by the values and traditions of our culture, just like everyone else.
Take incest for example. I think it is wrong and terrible and disgusting. That is what our culture thinks too. But, in some primitive tribal cultures, it is considered perfectly normal and natural and is the way that people are introduced to sexuality. I think it is wrong because of the culture I am a part of. Other cultures see no harm in it.
That is why all of us see things the way we do - we are free-willed, independent-thinkers ... who are ALSO conditioned by our culture to think the way we do.
Model
Alix Andrea
Posts: 3035
Los Angeles, California, US
E|||B wrote:
You want to know why? Truthfully?
Simple conditioning by society.
We all like to see ourselves as "independent thinkers" who do not have to conform to the "mindless lemming mentality" of our own culture. But guess what - we do conform to that. We ALL do. Yes, even those of you who have tattoos and piercings and go to Burning Man. You are conformists too. Every human being is a conformist to their culture to SOME degree. It is a part of our natural human nature to conform in such ways. The WHOLE REASON that society even EXISTS in the first place is due to our natural NEED to be social beings and form social groups.
Therefore, you wonder why looking at a woman is nicer? Because our culture tells you it is. Our culture is homophobic and does not like naked males. You are a part of our culture. Therefore, even if you attempt to "think outside the box" and be "open minded" about things, on a certain level, you can't. Because you have been conditioned to think this way.
Creepy thought. I know that I sure as hell don't want to see myself that way. I want to believe that I can think for myself and not conform to what our culture dictates to me. But if I'm honest with myself, I know that is not true. On some level, I am imprisoned by the values and traditions of our culture, just like everyone else.
Take incest for example. I think it is wrong and terrible and disgusting. That is what our culture thinks too. But, in some primitive tribal cultures, it is considered perfectly normal and natural and is the way that people are introduced to sexuality. I think it is wrong because of the culture I am a part of. Other cultures see no harm in it.
That is why all of us see things the way we do - we are free-willed, independent-thinkers ... who are ALSO conditioned by our culture to think the way we do. DAMN........You're right. Creepy thought...
Model
Lotus Love
Posts: 87
San Diego, California, US
no, i have seen many male models on MM or elsewhere who seem very comfortable with baring it all or almost all. however, i DO think that it's true women are more esthitically (sp?) pleasing to the eye. i'm not a lesbian but i would much rather see a female stripper than a male stripper for some reason...i just feel that women are a much stronger representation of beauty. WE embody it better. Men are handsome, rugged creatures...women are sexy, soft, supple... Anyways who care, what are you on MM for? to find naked pics of men?
Model
Apauline
Posts: 49
Pasadena, California, US
Lotus Ta wrote:
no, i have seen many male models on MM or elsewhere who seem very comfortable with baring it all or almost all. however, i DO think that it's true women are more esthitically (sp?) pleasing to the eye. i'm not a lesbian but i would much rather see a female stripper than a male stripper for some reason...i just feel that women are a much stronger representation of beauty. WE embody it better. Men are handsome, rugged creatures...women are sexy, soft, supple... Anyways who care, what are you on MM for? to find naked pics of men? Yes while there might be many there arent NEARLY as many as women..which I said in my first post. And also not I'm not here for that (also said in my first post) its just an OBSERVATION I made.
Model
Apauline
Posts: 49
Pasadena, California, US
Alix Andrea wrote:
DAMN........You're right. Creepy thought... Very creepy when you look at it that way, I know....!!
Model
Lotus Love
Posts: 87
San Diego, California, US
Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
Not true...The male nude can be just as aesthetic as the female. The problem is today's straight male photographer dosen't feel comfortable staring at a naked man long enough to find that aesthetic.
What the female form really screams is "I'm not a fag! Look! I like girls!" LOL ok i just started reading the other replies after i posted mine. this is funny
Photographer
Kentsoul
Posts: 9739
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Kim Nicole wrote:
I don't think it's about women being inherently more attractive. I think it's about women's bodies currently being mainstream societal shorthand for sex. You spend your whole life seeing half-naked women being sexy on tv, in movies, etc and that's what becomes the personification of Sex and attractiveness in your head. Women are used to sell things to men AND to other women.
If they started suddenly started showing nothing but half-naked men, rather than women, the next generation of MMers would be talking about how women are simply not as attractive naked because of their breasts.
Oh. And I suspect that women don't watch porn as much as men because:
1) We're not expected to. (A hetero man who isn't excited about porn may run the risk of being called a fag.)
2) The format for most porn sucks. (If I want to see that much vagina, I'll get the hand mirror.) Excellent points! Consider them stolen.
Photographer
Lens N Light
Posts: 16341
Bradford, Vermont, US
Jay Bowman wrote:
For hundreds if not thousands of years artists captured the male figure. It was dipicted as grand, powerful, graceful and other such adjectives. And until people started to paint leaves over the privates or take a chisel to a statue's crotch, those artist renderings were oftentimes fully nude. Society just perceives it all differently now. Thousands of years ago, the male nude body was more often on display than now. Hell, athletic contests in ancient Greece were performed in the nude. (e.g. the original olympics.)
Today we don't do that. I'm pretty sure the single biggest reason is that we, as males who would appreciate a nude male body, are afraid we will be considered a little bit gay.
Photographer
ADG Photography
Posts: 544
Calhoun, Georgia, US
I thinkmost photographers (the ones here on MM especially) are male and heterosexual. I strive to maintain my professionalism at all my shoots, especially where nudity is involved. That said (and I may get "slapped" for saying this), as a heterosexual male I do prefer to look upon nude women far more than I do on nude males. No matter how professional you are, that interest and preference is there. But I think not seeing alot of nude male imagery outside of porn is due to much more than this.
Male genitalia is almost completely external. A woman's sex organs, for the most part, are internal. With the exception of the vulva, much of her remains easily hidden. I think the fact that, when fully nude, so much of the male anatomy is right there "in your face" no matter how one tries to pose him is chief among the reasons it is seldom seen. And yes, this goes back the stupid puritanical nature of much of America.
Just my two cents.
Photographer
S
Posts: 21678
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
Simple. Most men don't have the courage to be that completely exposed. And most photographers [male or female] don't have the flexibility to capture it anyway. Melvin's got a point. I can't tell you how much easier it is for me to find female models who will work nude, versus male models. There's a reason that my male figure work is torso-centric.
With that said, however, I vehemently disagree that male bodies aren't beautiful. Are you people kidding me? The male body is one of the most beautiful things on the planet. I can't believe that's not obvious.
To refute this goofy claim, I'm changing my avatar to what I think is a work of art featuring a work of art. So there.
Photographer
S
Posts: 21678
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
Joey Porter isn't a sex toy [like Mr. September] -- he's an Alpha Male. Today's Linebacker is the same as a Woolly Mammoth Killer 2000 years ago. Just because we wear nicer clothes dosen't mean we're all that much more evolved than our ancient ancestors. EXACTLY! Women do NOT like their men in glamour poses, the way that men do, and that's mostly all you can find when you do actually find male nudes.
You wouldn't believe how even the tame male figure work I do is received by women. It's 100% straight-up girl porn.
Model
luv2bfitt
Posts: 725
Merrimack, New Hampshire, US
Lens N Light wrote:
... athletic contests in ancient Greece were performed in the nude. (e.g. the original olympics.) A little more history on this point: The ancient Olympics started out with one event: Running. As time went by, they added more events to make it more intesting, but why did they compete in the buff?
One of the runners had their loin cloth drop off during a race, and just so happened HE was the winner. It was percieved that being un-inhibited gave him an advantage, so everybody started doing it. Today they don't do that, but it is a reason why many athletes wear Black skin-tight lycra clothing. Funny, when you see them on TV, it's always from the waist up.....
Photographer
RayAndrews
Posts: 321
Dallas, Texas, US
What was it that Elaine from Seinfeld said...a woman's body is a work of art, and men's are simply utilitarian. A man can have a great physic, but implied seems to be the standard for male models...double standard yes 
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
AUGH.
I typed a really long response here & MM just ATE it when I clicked "post"
Short answer is, as often noted men are more visual than women, men & women look for different things physically than men (and when women look at each OTHER they look at the same things men do & compare), and much of it is driven by biology.
There are some cultural differences as you can see more male nudity in Europe but women STILL don't ooo & ahh & drool over it. They're more likely (as noted last page) to drool over a big beefy alpha male linebacker type.
Plus when it comes to nudes of any sort women are MUCH more likely to parrot the trope of "A little covering is more sexy, we need some mystery, it's sexier if it doesn't all show" etc etc where men are more likely to just want it all to hang out.
So biologically we're not wired the same in regards to what & who we look at but both genders are more likely to look at the female form & consider its aesthetics. It's NOT just cultural.
And as previously noted, the penis just generally isn't pretty.
Model
jade83
Posts: 2253
Columbia, Missouri, US
E|||B wrote:
... The WHOLE REASON that society even EXISTS in the first place is due to our
Take incest for example. I think it is wrong and terrible and disgusting. That is what our culture thinks too. But, in some primitive tribal cultures, it is considered perfectly normal and natural and is the way that people are introduced to sexuality. I think it is wrong because of the culture I am a part of. Other cultures see no harm in it. (it's supposed to be naturally/biologically taboo because of inbreeding risk)
Model
jade83
Posts: 2253
Columbia, Missouri, US
ADG Photography wrote:
Male genitalia is almost completely external. A woman's sex organs, for the most part, are internal. With the exception of the vulva, much of her remains easily hidden. I think the fact that, when fully nude, so much of the male anatomy is right there "in your face" no matter how one tries to pose him is chief among the reasons it is seldom seen. And yes, this goes back the stupid puritanical nature of much of America.
Just my two cents. Make that four cents.
Photographer
Dr Molly Black
Posts: 663
Cleveland, Ohio, US
E|||B wrote:
You want to know why? Truthfully?
Simple conditioning by society.
We all like to see ourselves as "independent thinkers" who do not have to conform to the "mindless lemming mentality" of our own culture. But guess what - we do conform to that. We ALL do. Yes, even those of you who have tattoos and piercings and go to Burning Man. You are conformists too. Every human being is a conformist to their culture to SOME degree. It is a part of our natural human nature to conform in such ways. The WHOLE REASON that society even EXISTS in the first place is due to our natural NEED to be social beings and form social groups.
Therefore, you wonder why looking at a woman is nicer? Because our culture tells you it is. Our culture is homophobic and does not like naked males. You are a part of our culture. Therefore, even if you attempt to "think outside the box" and be "open minded" about things, on a certain level, you can't. Because you have been conditioned to think this way.
Creepy thought. I know that I sure as hell don't want to see myself that way. I want to believe that I can think for myself and not conform to what our culture dictates to me. But if I'm honest with myself, I know that is not true. On some level, I am imprisoned by the values and traditions of our culture, just like everyone else.
Take incest for example. I think it is wrong and terrible and disgusting. That is what our culture thinks too. But, in some primitive tribal cultures, it is considered perfectly normal and natural and is the way that people are introduced to sexuality. I think it is wrong because of the culture I am a part of. Other cultures see no harm in it.
That is why all of us see things the way we do - we are free-willed, independent-thinkers ... who are ALSO conditioned by our culture to think the way we do. I agree with you wholeheartedly and now I love you, too. Be forewarned, I'm driving out your way to shoot and be shot and we're doing the skateboard thing (so long as we take turns putting the camera down so mine doesn't get caught in the falling off onto my ass and shatter because all that padding doesn't save it).
And OT for the OP: I happen to find the male body very attractive. But my husband (who is in my mind gorgeous and has a great body other than a birth defect which I would love to document) won't model for me and I've not shot with other guys yet. But when I start doing sexyalternaboys after sexyalternagirls goes live and I can focus on the next step of the project, I'll be shooting lots of different styles of men...I'm one day hoping to have my portfolio half and half. I've got three (if you include my friend's son from her wedding). I want MORE. ;-)
Photographer
Webspinner Studios
Posts: 6964
Ann Arbor, Michigan, US
If you want to see male nudes as well as female ones, check out my portfolio. There are others like me. I mean damn, is it really that hard to find a male model? I guess that living with this one allows me the intimacy to photograph him like this (doesn't that make nude male models sound like wildlife? lol) His port is 31104, since I forgot to link, but he has worked with 5 different photographers other than me, and good ones, and for some reason, they do not tend to display their work they have done with him. But I display our work proudly.
Photographer
rickspix
Posts: 1304
Vallejo, California, US
i find the male form to be the most beautiful and i can and do appreciate a fine photograph of the female form as well. ultimately it is the light and composition and of course the beauty of the model of whichever sex that makes the image a work of art.
Photographer
Photos By Deej
Posts: 1508
Tumwater, Washington, US
Another double standard I see is that if a male photographer like myself has artistic nude photos of males in his portfolio and suddenly has a problem with a model presumably str8, all of a sudden he is judged on his sexual orientation and implied that his work is less artistic and more porn that a str8 male photographer who has nude females in his portfolio. Yes, I am gay but it doesn't mean I'm any less professional than a str8 photogrpaher. Plus most of the complaints you here about photographers from models are from women who say the photographer was acting inappropriate.
Also, I notice if I have male nudes posted in my portfolio and contact a male model who doesn't do nudity or their agent/mgr about headshots or fashion shots, I don't hear back b/c it seems to be taboo to work with a photographer who does nude work as well. Now I've been accomodating and removed my nudes for the sake of judgement and to make it easier to find a male model to work with me but I've also compromised the integrity of my body of work. At my core, I don't feel my portfolio as it is now represents the full spectrum of my work. I don't want to compromise the integrity of my work by having a G-rated portfolio and a PG-13 rated portfolio. I feel that adults should be smart enough to realize that a photographer who shoots nudes doesn't have to shoot nudes of every model he photographs. Why is it bad to work with a photographer who has shot nudes if you have not posed nude for the photogrpaher as long as you get great shots? I don't understand that at all. Lots of male models proclaim in their profile and sometimes BOLDLY to not even ask about nudes. Part of the reason Most Male models won't work the photographer who have done nudes b/c they are either afraid of being asked to pose nude or won't work with a male photographer b/c of homophobia. If I'm wrong somebody please correct me.
Photographer
S
Posts: 21678
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Photos By Deej wrote:
Also, I notice if I have male nudes posted in my portfolio and contact a male model who doesn't do nudity or their agent/mgr about headshots or fashion shots, I don't hear back b/c it seems to be taboo to work with a photographer who does nude work as well. Yeah, I get that a lot too. I'll be talking to someone about doing something like beauty shots, and they'll reiterate seventeen gazillion times that they don't do nudes. Makes me want to scream. "I know! We're talking about beauty shots, not booty shots!"
Model
Miya
Posts: 3241
San Diego, California, US
UIPHOTOS wrote:
Because the male nude is not aesthetically pleasing.. There are a few paintings and mainly statues of the male nude in museums, but you will be hard pressed to find alot of them anywhere.. again, from a visual standpoint not the same artistic value as women..
I laugh when I hear women say this because even PLAYGIRL's readers are mainly gay men.. I dont know ONE woman with a subscription.. LMAO
So it is obvious there isnt much of a market for it.. Artistically or Commercially..
So you ladies may want to invest in your own digital camera and 4x6 printer.. LOL uh oh...i have a subscription to playgirl...
i find the male body and anatomy beautiful. so i just wish the models, and photographers, would (pardon the pun) have a bit more balls...
hehe
there's my two cents.
men of the world...GET NAKED!
Photographer
lightsandshadow
Posts: 2200
New York, New York, US
I think the double standard exists in the industry of photography. With the internet and nudes everywhere the human form isn't as appreciated as it used to be. I try to stay away from those type of narrow ideas. I'm currently in a position where I can create the kinds of images that I have always wanted to create. I have been looking for more male subjects to add to my port. In fact I just did a shoot on Friday with a male model. Full nude figures. My opinion is that the humann form, male and female, any size, shape, race, is a wonderous thing and it's an ongoing project of mine to capture that on film.
Model
Alix Andrea
Posts: 3035
Los Angeles, California, US
lightsandshadow wrote:
I think the double standard exists in the industry of photography. With the internet and nudes everywhere the human form isn't as appreciated as it used to be. I try to stay away from those type of narrow ideas. I'm currently in a position where I can create the kinds of images that I have always wanted to create. I have been looking for more male subjects to add to my port. In fact I just did a shoot on Friday with a male model. Full nude figures. My opinion is that the humann form, male and female, any size, shape, race, is a wonderous thing and it's an ongoing project of mine to capture that on film. That is the attitude more photgraphers should have, I find it kind of disturbing to think that photgraphers owuld take pics of naked woman just to make a point that they like girls, meaning they get off on that???! or are somehow proving their macho-ness? Hmm...
Model
Apauline
Posts: 49
Pasadena, California, US
Alix Andrea wrote:
That is the attitude more photgraphers should have, I find it kind of disturbing to think that photgraphers owuld take pics of naked woman just to make a point that they like girls, meaning they get off on that???! or are somehow proving their macho-ness? Hmm... Hmmmmmm...
Photographer
lightsandshadow
Posts: 2200
New York, New York, US
Angelica Perry wrote:
Hmmmmmm... Indeed!!
Model
Alix Andrea
Posts: 3035
Los Angeles, California, US
lightsandshadow wrote:
Indeed!! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm lol
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