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Educating the wanna-be models...
You know what sucks...? The fact that we as photographers have to be on our best behavior in every aspect of our work, no matter what phase of our career we're at! If we want to shoot with certain models, we have to be respectful of the models style limitations, we have to be respectful of the models posing limitations, we have to have thier prints/CD's the next day or sooner! But models get to prance through life, like the world should rotate around them? What about all of the crap we have to go through...? The many lenghty conversations just to set up a shoot. Hello...we're not Dr.Phil! The rescheduling of our private/work schedule to fit hers? The waiting for an apparent no-show. (AGAIN)! How about even though every detail of a shoot has been worked out, the model decides to change her mind about what to wear? How about the fact that she loves every picture you've shown her and agrees to every pose you've previously discussed, but again changes her mind on certain poses? How about the hours we spend going through the hundreds upon hundreds of images from the shoot to find the best ones to work with. How about the hours we spend on the computer working each image with Photoshop? I know models think they have the hardest part...looking pretty! You know...if there was a deranged photographer out there messing with models we would hear about it for sure, wether in forums or whatever, but we have no recourse for flaky, no show wanna-be models! But all I ask...is that you as models, think about and respect what we as photographers go through. Do unto others.. Thanks! Sep 07 06 06:57 pm Link Welcome to Humanity. The good thing about being here is: if you really really don't like it (WHATEVER IT MAY BE TO YOU), you can change the circumstances you find yourself in. Enjoy! Sep 07 06 07:00 pm Link Michael Barrett wrote: No recourse? What about the *incessant* complaining in the forums? You make it sound as if photographers alone are taken to task for inappropriate, unprofessional behavior, while models get off scott free. Hardly. Sep 07 06 07:06 pm Link such is life....... thats y whatever i do or wherever i go i always have a back up plan!!! Sep 07 06 07:20 pm Link Michael Barrett wrote: Switch to male models if you are annoyed with these facts. Sep 07 06 07:23 pm Link Some suggestions (assuming you were refering to TFP shoots): * Take fewer photos. * Tell her up front that CD's take 7-10 days. * Allow her to change her poses and outfits (creativity is good) * Photoshop the photos YOU like, YOUR way If you're getting paid - then I'd say you're suffering from burnout. It might be time to cut down on the amount of jobs you're taking on... or find a new career. Sep 07 06 07:24 pm Link Yes yo must be burnt ... we are sorry you are having a bad experience .. funny thing is models photgraphers and MUAs are people and people cancel..I had a booked shoot for yesterday , today and next wed. all postponed. Hm ... sound kind of like the same thing only reversed. Sit back , take a breather ...  Sep 07 06 07:30 pm Link Yeah, the world is really bad for you. You should just quit. -Don Sep 07 06 07:32 pm Link Maybe be more selective about who you work with, especially if it;s a TFP....If they don't have networking abilities, why do it? That to me is the first thing I look for......I agree it sounds like you're burned out. Why so many images? Sometimes less is more.....all the terms should be clearly discussed prior, and get deposits if you have to....or take a break and concentrate on building retail business.....and look for people who you can help develop, rather than work for existing talent....(those are usually the ones who expect to pay). Main thing is make sure all communication is thorough! That cuts back on drama, though it's impossible to eliminate it! Sep 07 06 07:36 pm Link Maybe if you had a little more respect for the models, they would have more respect for you! Being a good model requires more than just looking pretty!! It is a talent, just like acting or photography. Models are artists too! Sep 07 06 07:40 pm Link This seems more like bitchin and moanin then educating. Sep 07 06 08:28 pm Link D. Brian Nelson wrote:
Sep 07 06 08:30 pm Link D. Brian Nelson wrote: You are the master of subtlety. Sep 07 06 08:55 pm Link D. Brian Nelson wrote:
Sep 07 06 09:19 pm Link damn, I am glad I dont have to go through all that ... sounds like your just shooting test shoots... pay the model then they are on your schedule, your poses, your what ever, as long as its within their limitations which is very understandable. And if they don't show, they don't get paid. Sep 08 06 12:54 am Link I must be simple minded or something......I keep seeing these threads and wonder why I never have problems like this. Here's how it works for me... I either contact a model or she contacts me. We set up a preshoot meeting to discuss what we're going to do. We do the shoot. I edit out all the technical mistakes, closed eyes and wierd looks. I call the model and schedule a preview. We both go through the edited shots. She picks her favorites, I pick mine. She gets her agreed upon hard copies and a CD of the shots we both selected. Everyone goes happily their own way. I never have any of the problems, drama or complaints I keep reading about....do I ever have models cancel....yes,....have I ever cancelled....yes.....cancellations are just one fact of business not a reason to end your life...... Sep 08 06 07:20 am Link My favorites are models who, in their initial contact to you, start with the DON'T DOS. I dont do this and I dont do that....but I love to model. I dont care if you dont do nudes.....you dont even know what my shoot is for. Could be for winter coats...lol. Either you are a model or you are not. I dont care if you dont do this or dont do that....either you fit what I am looking for or.....guess whatelse you dont do...work with me....lol. "some" models (no not all) think they own and run the industry...sorry....clients do. We are all here to take care of them. He who signs the pay check gets to determine the details. Either you DO what they want or someone who will gets the pay for doing so. It's so funny...I can get someone who has never been infront of a lens and has no clue what to do and get better photos and content most of the time than alot of the models who demand payment above their market value. Put that with your webcam shots and like it. Yep...life is grand. Sep 08 06 07:32 am Link Personally....With the hundreds probably thousands I've spent on my wardrobe, I would say physical work is far better than spending my hard earned money on outfits that the photographer would like me to have,and then change their mind on when I get there.Happens all the time! Sep 08 06 07:43 am Link In defense of Michael....a no show in N. Carolina, GA and Kansas is a BIG difference from a no show in LA. Upland, CA is on the outskirts of LA on Interstate 10...no doubt. If you are from this area, that alone would explain his frustration. Sep 08 06 08:14 am Link Katelyn wrote: If you took off work and drove from LA to Long Beach a few times this summer, only for the photographer to no show or change the details of the shoot, would you be as angry. Sep 08 06 08:16 am Link I hate to have to bring this to your attention: The world does NOT revolve around models. It revolves around me. That's all. PS: See how I can take any topic and use it to make my day brighter? Try it sometime. It's fun. Sep 08 06 08:17 am Link DawnElizabeth Moderator wrote: Ok Dawn.... no holding back, tell us how you REALLY feel, lol! Sep 08 06 08:30 am Link Man, it's not models you're describing, that's just women. Trust me, I'm married to one. Sep 08 06 08:40 am Link If it were easy, everyone would be a professional photographer! Sep 08 06 08:44 am Link Dawn is the coolest model in the solar system Sep 08 06 08:48 am Link Michael Barrett wrote: You make it sound as if All Models are like this...hardly the truth !! Sep 08 06 08:52 am Link Tommy McI wrote: In the defense of the wallets of everyone no matter what their profession is, wasted time is wasted time and especially when it costs anyone money.It doesnt matter if it's Hong Kong or the middle of nowhere.Waiting for someone when you could be shooting a paid shoot, or us driving with gas the way it is to anywhere with money invested into hair,makeup,wardrobe,taking off of work,etc.We all get screwed in the end. Sep 08 06 08:54 am Link It sounds like a bitch fit to me. Models don't rule the world and, guess what, niether do photographers. We all sacrifice in some way. We know that coming in. I don't think one does more than the other. We all have to contribute to make an end product. Get real and be careful when it comes to who you work with. If you constanly have these problems, find a new approach or just get over it. Double standards are a major problem in these forums. I can remember the many times I would have to sit and have a bullshitter conversation with a photographer. And you're right. Do unto others. Sep 08 06 08:54 am Link Michael Barrett wrote: whahhhhh whahhhh whaaaaahhhh!! b^tch and moan, whine whine whine. me me me me. Sep 08 06 09:59 am Link Allen Coefield wrote: Sep 08 06 10:12 am Link Just substitue Photograher with guy And model with girl and you get the real meaning I have been cancelled upon countless times boo hoo i've learned to live with that fact. Especially with internet models. That's how it is live with it. The world is not black and white it's tat ugly muddy colour you get when your developer is weak and the fixer hasn't been changed ina a while and your print start to yellow. I need some tylanol Sep 08 06 10:53 am Link It has nothing to do with guy/gal.......(some photographers are gals who are mega professional and some models are guys who are and are not). It is a matter of professionalism. If you are a model...apply for modeling jobs like you would a 40 hours a week job. Work the job like you would a 40 hour a week job...treat the client like you would your 40 hour a week boss. It isnt really all that hard. The last time I looked the pecking order for commercial assignments were 1. Client (his details and his money) 2. Photographer (as long as he can provide the look and quality client likes) 3. Model...has to first satisfy the photographer then the client.....is the easiest to find and replace as needed. Sep 08 06 11:02 am Link Michael Barrett wrote: I believe you- most girls are stupid, demanding, and inconciderate- Sep 08 06 11:20 am Link I sure hope models don't treat a shoot like most people treat the grind of a 40 hour week. I have to be properly satisfied by a model. Sorry it was too easy Sep 08 06 11:24 am Link sounds like some OP education might be in order. as for educating a wannabe anything... just not possible. If you can't just say NO to involving yourself with the ilk, just suck it up and accept that you walked into the swamp on your own accord. if the gator bites your ass... eh sorta invetitable, no? Sep 08 06 11:32 am Link Sounds to me like you just work with the wrong models. I work with models all the time who work their butts off. Perhaps the problem is that you are LETTING them treat you this way. Hire a good creative team and half of your problems will be solved. The model wont have to worry about doing her hair, wardrobe and make-up and will less than likely argue with a talented creative team. I mean what is so special about these models that you are bending over backwards for? Why not just call their agent and ask to arrange a test? Sep 08 06 11:32 am Link Is it too soon for a crocodile hunter joke? Sep 08 06 11:33 am Link Well I think the model should have the right to change her mind on outfits especially if it is a TFP shoot. Everyone (photogropher, model, make up artist, stylist) should be able to exercise creative freedom. Oh and another thing. MODELING is freaking hard work! Half the time they are in uncomfortable positions, freezing and/or starving by the end of the shoot. TFP is really hit or miss. A gamble, but if you work with good people it could be a wonderful experience. Sorry you are so bitter about it, maybe you should take only paid shoots. Sep 08 06 11:35 am Link I think age is a factor here also. most models are around 20, and photographers way older. with age you get patient and forgiving. .m Sep 08 06 11:38 am Link Gotsta keep your Pimp Hand Strong my bruthaaaaa.  Sep 08 06 11:40 am Link |
