Lora wrote:
It's a hobby. Someday I'll be old and saggy. That's all for me.

Some of us are that already

To the OP..because its fun, it pays and we want to.

Fotticelli wrote:
Every single word you've said in your message has been said before. Why did you bother to write them?

Homey,
I was hoping for some discourse. And it's a question that nags everyone. I was just curious.
But seriously, when you prop someone up against the wall or whatever. Is it because of the joy of doing it or do you (not YOU dude) actually think that propping up a model is original and will get you noticed?

i think it's a fair question.
I'm not going to get into a "flame (I hate internet lingo)" war with anyone over this.
I just wanted to know what others thought.

Jayne Jones wrote:
I'm hoping (flamers. . .get a LIFE for five seconds) to use this site (and other sites) to gain exposure (read: self promote; i.e. say "HEY I'm out here!!!").  It worked for JeskaV. . .is working for ShaunaF. . .I plan to build up my port, continue networking here, and keep using this site to help spread the word about Moi so I can start going in the direction I want to go in.

I don't expect to be "discovered" on this site. . .unless it's by an EXCELLENT photographer. . .BUT I HAVE discovered some fantastic photographers that I otherwise would have never known about.  One day I shall shoot with them all!  ;-)

thanks Jayne. This is the kind of stuff I was wondering about....

JM Giordano wrote:
What makes you do this?

It's cheaper, cooler and more fun than therapy.  Seriously.

JM Giordano wrote:

Homey,
I was hoping for some discourse. And it's a question that nags everyone. I was just curious.
But seriously, when you prop someone up against the wall or whatever. Is it because of the joy of doing it or do you (not YOU dude) actually think that propping up a model is original and will get you noticed?

i think it's a fair question.
I'm not going to get into a "flame (I hate internet lingo)" war with anyone over this.
I just wanted to know what others thought.

My point was you expressed your ideas in words even though the words are the same and the subject has been discussed before it's new and different because you are different. When I read your post I read it in the context of your pictures and will trying to figure out what you as a person are trying to say.

Same with pictures. It's not about being new and different. It's about having something to say. Trying to be new and different is annoying. Just imagine a guy at a party trying to impress everyone with how different and interesting he is. You'll get tired of that guy quickly and try to avoid him.

Pictures are like a conversation. If you take a picture to show off your new camera or new tweaked curves of your profile I'll say: "nice camera" or "good job buddy". But if you say something that is relevant to me and something that came out of your interesting observations I'll stop and think.

John Valdez wrote:
jm you make a good point, its a question that i find myself thinking about as i surf this site...its probably why i cant look thru pages and pages of this site...it gets kinda numbing after a while

but i guess 'a wall picture' is as boring as you make it...its taking whats there and manipulating it to make it interesting..

its part of what makes all of this so fun..learning to break thru that wall

You're right JV.
I don't comment on others work no matter how good or bad it is. Because it's not MY vision, it's theirs. AND (unfortunatly) most people are drawn to mediocrity, and thus leave what they consider constructive comments, that aren't really constructive but mediocre (more centered sharper etc...)
I think the best solution is to shoot if you have never seen another's work. that's what I try to do.
But I also struggle with, if my goal is to get paying work, and I'm not getting paying work, when should I throw in the towel so to speak.

JM Giordano wrote:

You're right JV.
I don't comment on others work no matter how good or bad it is. Because it's not MY vision, it's theirs. AND (unfortunatly) most people are drawn to mediocrity, and thus leave what they consider constructive comments, that aren't really constructive but mediocre (more centered sharper etc...)
I think the best solution is to shoot if you have never seen another's work. that's what I try to do.

PS: i'm making my own head explode!
But I also struggle with, if my goal is to get paying work, and I'm not getting paying work, when should I throw in the towel so to speak.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:

It's cheaper, cooler and more fun than therapy.  Seriously.

I agree

Does wonders for the self esteem


My last therapy bill way pretty $$$$$$

And she just wanted to talk about my "feelings"

HA !

Lexi Williams wrote:

I agree

Does wonders for the self esteem


My last therapy bill way pretty $$$$$$

And she just wanted to talk about my "feelings"

HA !

I will need therapy because of photography.

JM Giordano wrote:
After skimming through the site. it seems that EVERTHING has been done. Every position, angle, PS tactic and technique.
Do you think that magazines actually look at this site for photographers?
I don't.
why do we prop women up against walls (over and over and over again), make them squat on traintracks and seriously OVER photoshop everything, when many of us will NEVER see our work on the cover or inside a glossy.
What makes you do this?

I'm just wondering.
Same goes for the models here.

The answer is simple: WE ENJOY IT!

I play golf. I'm not good enough to get on "the tour". I will never make a dime playing golf. I just can't get enough of it.

I shoot pool. Sometimes 5 times a week. I'm not good enough to beat most of the people in the pool hall.

But that doesn't mean that billiards can't enrich my life.

Some of us are not here to get "noticed" by a magazine. I'm never going to be Ansel Adams.

I do this because I love it.

Lora wrote:
Someday I'll be old and saggy.

Never... not you!

JM Giordano wrote:
why do you do this?

Because the voices in my head tell me to

JM Giordano wrote:
why do you do this?

Because that stint as a male gigolo didn't work out so well.

JM Giordano wrote:
After skimming through the site. it seems that EVERTHING has been done. Every position, angle, PS tactic and technique.
Do you think that magazines actually look at this site for photographers?
I don't.
why do we prop women up against walls (over and over and over again), make them squat on traintracks and seriously OVER photoshop everything, when many of us will NEVER see our work on the cover or inside a glossy.
What makes you do this?

I'm just wondering.
Same goes for the models here.

Why are YOU here?

JM Giordano wrote:
why do we prop women up against walls (over and over and over again), make them squat on traintracks and seriously OVER photoshop everything, when many of us will NEVER see our work on the cover or inside a glossy.
What makes you do this?

Because we enjoy the process, hope to learn and improve, and because we hope the images are worthwhile, even if "they've been done before".

How many of the people whose images grace the covers of a magazine started off that way? Were their early images not worth taking--without those (presumably) weaker images, they wouldn't be where they are now.

JM Giordano wrote:
But seriously, when you prop someone up against the wall or whatever. Is it because of the joy of doing it or do you (not YOU dude) actually think that propping up a model is original and will get you noticed?

Or because you like the results? Or because there's something different about this model and this wall.. Or because you ran out of ideas, and are waiting for more inspiration. Or because you're doing a series on otherwise cliché photographs. Or because the model cannot stand up by him/herself, and you'd like a "standing" shot. (BTDT). Or...

Jayne Jones wrote:
I'm hoping (flamers. . .get a LIFE for five seconds) to use this site (and other sites) to gain exposure (read: self promote; i.e. say "HEY I'm out here!!!").  It worked for JeskaV. . .is working for ShaunaF. . .I plan to build up my port, continue networking here, and keep using this site to help spread the word about Moi so I can start going in the direction I want to go in.

I don't expect to be "discovered" on this site. . .unless it's by an EXCELLENT photographer. . .BUT I HAVE discovered some fantastic photographers that I otherwise would have never known about.  One day I shall shoot with them all!  ;-)

JM Giordano wrote:
thanks Jayne. This is the kind of stuff I was wondering about....

De Nada!  I try to please photographers with every opportunity!

steve_bevacqua wrote:
Your question makes some assumptions that are, imho, invalid.

First is the idea that since something has been done before, it's not worth doing again.  I disagree with that.  Maybe I think (right or wrong) that I can improve on the idea or put my own spin on it - and maybe I'm not just 'propping a girl up against a wall'; maybe I'm shooting some new fashion (which has all been done before as well) and trying different looks with different wall textures and colors.  Maybe I'm skimming with light instead of using a hot shoe flash.  You cannot look at a fashion spread in any mainsteam mag and say "Wow, that's NEVER been done before".  Of course it has been.  So, if fashion (or glamour) mags restricted themselves to stuff that's never been done before, they'd have just about nothing to print.

Second is the idea that I'm here to show my stuff to magazines.  I'm not here for that because I can reasonably assume that any mag I would want to shoot for wouldn't be whiling away an afternoon cruising MM.  I started here looking for models who wanted to help create images so that I could get started shooting fashion type stuff and become more comfortable with it - right now I'm mostly an architectural/still life guy.

The actual reason I do this is because it's fun and it makes me happy.   When I see a picture in a magazine that I really like and makes me say "Damn! I wish I shot that." - it's almost always some kind of fashion or portrait shot.  So that's primarily the reason I'm trying to migrate to this 'genre' - so that I can produce and look at my own work and not have to 'wish' that I shot it.

So far, things have worked out OK.  I don't shoot this stuff anywhere near as often as I would like, but I have met and shot some models here and I've been happy with the results.  And I've put some of that stuff into a portfolio and I'll be shopping it around to some agencies here to see if maybe I can test with some of their people.

So anyway, that's why I'm here.  Even though it's all been done before. 

Darn, you took the words right out of my mouth...ok, not all of them, but I was thinking, because it's fun and makes me happy!  Modeling is better than flipping burgers to make money for college, but when it ceases to be fun...I'm outta here!  ;-)

JM Giordano wrote:
After skimming through the site. it seems that EVERTHING has been done. Every position, angle, PS tactic and technique.

Nope.  Everything hasn't been done.  No one did La Chapelle before he did.  Or Mapplethorpe.  Or for that matter Terry Richardson.  There are some folks here that not only do things better than others but do them differently.  And for some, their time will come.  Not because of MM directly, but because of what they make.

JM Giordano wrote:
Do you think that magazines actually look at this site for photographers?
I don't.

No they probably don't look here.  But magazine art buyers do look on the web.  Most of my credits are because an art buyer found me on the web somewhere.

JM Giordano wrote:
why do we prop women up against walls (over and over and over again), make them squat on traintracks and seriously OVER photoshop everything, when many of us will NEVER see our work on the cover or inside a glossy.
What makes you do this?

Because that's how one starts out.  Copying the stuff other people have done that they like.  Until they find out what they really like and start flexing their muscles and doing it their own way.   Most won't get there, but some will.

MM isn't about being discovered or about selling stuff.  It's a social website and it's for fun.

-Don

LGL Underground wrote:
Alice, from Alice in Wonderland had the same query.  But the Chesire Cat answered it brilliantly...

"'In that direction,' the Cat said, waving its right paw round, 'lives a Hatter: and in that direction,' waving the other paw, 'lives a March Hare. Visit either you like: they're both mad.'
'But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
'Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: 'we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'



Mad LGL.

Oh thank you so much for the Carrol quote....

I like the one from rocky horror as well , "She's lucky I'm lucky, We're all lucky!!! Ahhh hahahahahhhh"

Really I am here for the Pate, and Little pickles, the caution tape, the angel wings, the guitar, the beach shots, posts about nude modelling ,to find a new chipper , to remember i used to shoot pics,  the opportunity for travel with a purpose, new friends,the creepy gwc's,  the postponed shoots ,the ones who don't cancel ,the muas that I never get to meet , to get there on time, to be late , to be rich for a day,to be broke.... the fun,  the experience, and the ride ... oooop and the rope burns.

JM Giordano wrote:
After skimming through the site. it seems that EVERTHING has been done. Every position, angle, PS tactic and technique.
Do you think that magazines actually look at this site for photographers?
I don't.
why do we prop women up against walls (over and over and over again), make them squat on traintracks and seriously OVER photoshop everything, when many of us will NEVER see our work on the cover or inside a glossy.
What makes you do this?

I'm just wondering.
Same goes for the models here.

For both modeling and shooting, both are ways for me to express myself in creative manner. I am an artist at heart (sculpture is my main medium but I dabble in drawing and to a lesser degree painting as well), so this is just another way for me to express myself.  In some ways I prefer photography to other forms of artwork as it is more readily available and is more of a challenge in some respects.

Caroline
-225 lbs @ goal
(and who doesn't have "the wall" photos - I try to not do the typical poses, shots, etc...)

JM Giordano wrote:
Why do you do this?

10. Because I can't get someone else to do it for me.

9. Because painting and sculpture take too long and I'm impatient.

8. Nude/naked/nekkid/undressed/bare models (just a kiddin').

7. Because there are models with serious eyes who need to be captured.

6. Because if I didn't, someone else might screw it all up.

5. To be one with the model, the background, the lighting, and the image.  (Well, maybe not "one" but at least a close acquaintance with all of the above.)

4. 'Cause it's groovy, fab, keen, and, above all, swell!

3. Because sometimes the world looks better in black and white (or sepia).

2. Because models is cool folk!

And the Number One reason why I do this is
.
.
.
.
.
.
1. Because paying models to pose continuously all over my house for weeks at a time was getting way too expensive.

Tony

JM Giordano wrote:
After skimming through the site. it seems that EVERTHING has been done. Every position, angle, PS tactic and technique.
Do you think that magazines actually look at this site for photographers?
I don't.
why do we prop women up against walls (over and over and over again), make them squat on traintracks and seriously OVER photoshop everything, when many of us will NEVER see our work on the cover or inside a glossy.
What makes you do this?

I'm just wondering.
Same goes for the models here.

This site is a great opportunity, I had um, NO professional photos when I started, now I have more than enough to suffice for a zed card and start a portfolio, and also got some great headshots, made contacts with wonderful and talented photographers, makeup artists, stylists, and other models. I have been contacted by agency scouts and thanks to MM made contacts with others in the industry. Also a great alternative to myspace where you have to deal with skeevy guys trying to get your number etc, this is a more professional and network-able environment.

THAT is why I do it.

D. Brian Nelson wrote:

JM Giordano wrote:
After skimming through the site. it seems that EVERTHING has been done. Every position, angle, PS tactic and technique.

Nope.  Everything hasn't been done.  No one did La Chapelle before he did.  Or Mapplethorpe.  Or for that matter Terry Richardson.  There are some folks here that not only do things better than others but do them differently.  And for some, their time will come.  Not because of MM directly, but because of what they make.

JM Giordano wrote:
Do you think that magazines actually look at this site for photographers?
I don't.

No they probably don't look here.  But magazine art buyers do look on the web.  Most of my credits are because an art buyer found me on the web somewhere.


Because that's how one starts out.  Copying the stuff other people have done that they like.  Until they find out what they really like and start flexing their muscles and doing it their own way.   Most won't get there, but some will.

MM isn't about being discovered or about selling stuff.  It's a social website and it's for fun.

-Don

Actually, William Klein (see the book In and Out of Fashion) can be considered the father of La Chappelle and the same goes for Terry Richardson (also Jurgen Teller was doing that whole raw photo thing years before Richardson). That entire style has been done before.
I guess my question was more for the people on the site who want to make a career out of shooting models with the hope of getting published.
At what point do you say, "I'm not getting anywhere" and decide to do something else.
I see what you mean about the social website thing. Maybe I'm taking MM too seriously.
Don't get me wrong, I love the models I've worked with, but I've just come ot a point where I've began to question if what I'm doing is good enough to contend.