Photographer
Tied And Taped
Posts: 4735
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Ya know, I could explain this YET AGAIN, but it occurs to me that certain people only bother to read certain parts of the explanation, focus on those parts, and choose to ignore the rest of what is said. Frankly, I have no time this week for deliberately dense people.
Those who haven't got what I've said by now simply refuse to get it.
BTW, nobody has answered me as to why Garry's declaration that no photography is art is fine but a guy who funds his art by doing bondage pics is wrong? At least I haven't said that NO photography is art, that it is not a creative process at all!
Well, enjoy your week. I'm done talking to the dense.
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30131
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
RStephenT wrote:
I must be honest I am having a bit of trouble following this analogy, but I do think I understand your point... and IF I understand it correctly then I do take some issue with it.
I mentioned the phrase "core values" earlier in this thread and not unexpectedly someone took issue with the statement. If you talk to many people around the world, you may find that many of us have very similar thoughts about our family, our children, our friends, etc. Core values are what really is important to us, when we step off the public stage, close our doors and reflect in private.
It's simple really. Is what you are doing adding to the benefit of others and our world or detracting from it? Obviously I can't decide for anyone other than myself, but I can try to influence people thru my opinions, but mostly thru my actions. Now how I conduct myself is critical. If I expect someone to respect me, than in living my life I must first show respect. That does not necessarily mean I need to agree with them at all, but in the disagreement I do not have to become disagreeable.
So in relating to what you said, if I think what you are doing detracts from the "human condition", I will first conduct myself in a manner that does not but I may resist actions and behavior that do detract. It is judgemental but from my perspective it is not BS. ( Sorry bout the delayed response to thsi exchange inv TaperUP ( I was in Seattle yesterday to see Kanye West , and had an all day bridal shoot back here today )
Yes I too am having some difficulties following this fellows analogies ( and I find it odd that he is always referencing his high school teacher ....like he was the only one providing any moral guidance in this fellows life ) ....
Yes ,,,Its really all about whether what we are doing in life is adding to benifit of others or detracting from it ( well stated )
The " Freedoms "of your country allow you to create publish and distribute such things as Bondage photography.... But be clear - Bondage photography is semi or completely illegal elsewhere in the world including my country I believe ....Laws are based on a country or societys shared morals and values ... So In coming out agianst Bondage photography not only I am saying that I personally find it offensive as the images produced devalue women ( even if the process of producing them is respectful and they are paid $) I am also saying that my views reflect the laws /morals /values of the society /country that I live in
The freedoms of your country also allow you free speech ( as do the laws of mine ) In criticizing the Bondage photography oF Taperup - I am excersizing my free speech ... I find this fellows behaviour offensive and have every right to say such , but stating this is a far cry form "Passing Judgement " as he claims I am doing ....That would be the Lords domain ( if you believe in such ) - not mine
Oh and Yeah I checked out his lame on line peepshow site ( well at least the mainpage ) - no great surpises there ...Do people actually pay to view such shit ?-must be some sick f**kers out there
Model
Caroline Ann Martin
Posts: 1736
Williamsport, Pennsylvania, US
Garry k wrote:
converselly , as a model have you ever worked with a photographer who was so offensive you have felt like saying 'Give me the damn camera Mr photographer and I will take my own pictures ' Yes, absolutely... One photographer was so terrible, infact, that I literally did EVERYTHING for the shoot with the exception of push the shutter release. (I even photoshopped the photos!) But it was HIS name that went on the photos for thue copyright info... Huh????
Photographer
Tied And Taped
Posts: 4735
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Once again, I could patiently explain things to the deliberately dense, but I'm far too busy this week. I have to do all the updates for my site for this week and next week, continue to pack for my Hollywood trip on Friday, and generally run around like a chicken with it's head cut off.
But I will address one thing. Garry has made repeated claims that bondage photography is against the law in many countries in the world. I would like to know two things:
1)Exactly what countries are we talking about? Are we discussing Islamic countries where the woman has to be dressed head to toe and can only show her eyes and hands? Are we talking about Communist countries like Cuba and China? Can Garry provide links to direct laws stating that it is prohibited? I've mentioned before knowing of bondage photographers--and models--in Canada, UK, and Japan, so I highly doubt it's illegal in any of those countries. So please, provide links proving that this is illegal everywhere but the US.
2)Why would I care what the laws of Iraq and Iran are anyhow? I'm not planning on going to an Islamic country and doing a shoot. Fact is, I'll likely only ever do shoots here in the USA unless I happen to get to an island like Aruba. Then the laws governing bondage photography could be of interest to me. Like I said earlier, it's against the law for women in Islamic countries to go outside unless they are completely covered. That law has no meaning to me, so why would another country's bondage photography laws have any meaning to me?
Model
DELETE ACCOUNT
Posts: 5517
Eškašem, Badakhshan, Afghanistan
Hot damn, I just got what "DID" means! High five! ;D Kathy Jean ![https://img4.modelmayhem.com/060905/06/44fd5dfb745bc.jpg]() Kathy Jean on September 03 2006 by Digital Plus Photography
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30131
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Tape Her Up wrote:
I ........ generally run around like a chicken with it's head cut off.
I rest my case.
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30131
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Tape Her Up wrote:
I ........ generally run around like a chicken with it's head cut off.
I rest my case.
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30131
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Tape Her Up wrote:
I ........ generally run around like a chicken with it's head cut off.
I rest my case.
Photographer
Tied And Taped
Posts: 4735
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
I noticed Garry chose to ignore everything I asked and instead chose to triple post a response by editing my previous post in a foolish effort to make himself look clever.
So, how about it, Garry?
Where are the links to these laws? What countries are we talking about? And why would I care when I'm not operating in said countries?
Garry is a typical internet troll. He talks shit, then when he's called on it, he does a pathetic dodge holding his hands over his ears going "la la la I can't hear you".
His non response to my post just PROVES my case.
I'll be sure not to think of you when I'm at the World 3-D Film Expo.
Photographer
Mr-Kato
Posts: 152
Garry k wrote:
The " Freedoms "of your country allow you to create publish and distribute such things as Bondage photography.... But be clear - Bondage photography is semi or completely illegal elsewhere in the world including my country I believe ....Laws are based on a country or societys shared morals and values ... So In coming out agianst Bondage photography not only I am saying that I personally find it offensive as the images produced devalue women ( even if the process of producing them is respectful and they are paid $) I am also saying that my views reflect the laws /morals /values of the society /country that I live in
The freedoms of your country also allow you free speech ( as do the laws of mine ) In criticizing the Bondage photography oF Taperup - I am excersizing my free speech ... I find this fellows behaviour offensive and have every right to say such , but stating this is a far cry form "Passing Judgement " as he claims I am doing ....That would be the Lords domain ( if you believe in such ) - not mine
Oh and Yeah I checked out his lame on line peepshow site ( well at least the mainpage ) - no great surpises there ...Do people actually pay to view such shit ?-must be some sick f**kers out there I know what end of the country you are from, but on my end of the country, bondage photograph is NOT illegal. You have expressed your PERSONAL ideals of bondage photography in the past and you really need to educate yourself more before spouting off that certin forms of photography are illegal.
There was a case in the BC provincial courts not long ago about a hardcore porn/bondage/simulated rape producer up on 21 obsentity charges facing millions in fines and 42 years in prison, The BC court tossed the case out of court. The ruleing boiled down was it was sexual fantasies are not obsene but maybe really objectionable and therefore NOT Illegal.
The crimal code of Canada for obsentity S.163(8)
The court case:
Regina V Randy Price 2004BCPC 0103 file number 141079-3-C2 Registry Vancouver
Date of hearing: Feb16 - Mar 19 2004
Date of Judgement April 23 2004
Counsel for the crown: M Mahoney
Counsel for the defendant: K Snowsell
Judge: R.R. Low
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30131
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Mr-Kato wrote:
I know what end of the country you are from, but on my end of the country, bondage photograph is NOT illegal. You have expressed your PERSONAL ideals of bondage photography in the past and you really need to educate yourself more before spouting off that certin forms of photography are illegal.
There was a case in the BC provincial courts not long ago about a hardcore porn/bondage/simulated rape producer up on 21 obsentity charges facing millions in fines and 42 years in prison, The BC court tossed the case out of court. The ruleing boiled down was it was sexual fantasies are not obsene but maybe really objectionable and therefore NOT Illegal.
The crimal code of Canada for obsentity S.163(8)
The court case:
Regina V Randy Price 2004BCPC 0103 file number 141079-3-C2 Registry Vancouver
Date of hearing: Feb16 - Mar 19 2004
Date of Judgement April 23 2004
Counsel for the crown: M Mahoney
Counsel for the defendant: K Snowsell
Judge: R.R. Low Sadly , you may be right and I have not kept up with the times
Looks like you adn MR Taperup could become Pals ...same interests ( degrading women ) and lack of ( oops ,there I go again )
Photographer
Boho Hobo
Posts: 25351
Santa Barbara, California, US
Garry k wrote:
AS a photographer have you ever felt so frustrated by a models attitude or behavior that you have felt like handing her the camera and saying - take your own damn pictures NO! I don't work with divas divettes divanistas whatevah!
Notta one has ever made it through the screening process.
Photographer
Kentsoul
Posts: 9739
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Garry k wrote:
Looks like you adn MR Taperup could become Pals ...same interests ( degrading women ) and lack of ( oops ,there I go again ) It's hard to call it "degrading women" when the women go out of their way for the privilege. I've got a shoot coming up in October that too many models want in on...for no money. One is flying to MI from Fla at her own expense to be "degraded" by me for the fourth time while another is driving from OH to be degraded for the third time...I'm talking to another who volunteered to take a train from Chicago and be degraded by me for the second time [if i can fit her in]...And that's not counting the other model from IL who's bummed out because she can't make it that weekend. She's going to drive to Pittsburgh on her own later so I can degrade her there.
Did i mention the model who's putting us all up and providing the locations where this degradation is to occur? It will be her second time as well.
If you like, I'll give you their MM numbers so you can "save" them, since my Jedi mind tricks are obviously too powerful for them. 
Model
Leda Locke
Posts: 101
Portland, Oregon, US
Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
It's hard to call it "degrading women" when the women go out of their way for the privilege. I've got a shoot coming up in October that too many models want in on...for no money. One is flying to MI from Fla at her own expense to be "degraded" by me for the fourth time while another is driving from OH to be degraded for the third time...I'm talking to another who volunteered to take a train from Chicago and be degraded by me for the second time [if i can fit her in]...And that's not counting the other model from IL who's bummed out because she can't make it that weekend. She's going to drive to Pittsburgh on her own later so I can degrade her there.
Did i mention the model who's putting us all up and providing the locations where this degradation is to occur? It will be her second time as well.
If you like, I'll give you their MM numbers so you can "save" them, since my Jedi mind tricks are obviously too powerful for them. Oh, yes. SAVE me from the AWESOME PHOTOGRAPHERS. I couldn't POSSIBLY want to take fantastic, edgy, striking (and maybe even shocking!) pictures with artists of this caliber, ESPECIALLY if they have the INDECENCY to make me look fucking amazing.
Seriously dude - bondage is not in any way demeaning to me as a woman. I give my consent freely, and *I* am the one in control of what happens to me, regardless of who is behind the camera, doing the tying, etc. I can walk away at any time. The fact that I find that doing this work makes me feel powerful and very aware of myself as a woman (and SAFE to display myself as fully as I do!), that I find these images fascinating and beautiful, and that they speak to me on such a powerful level, makes this truly my chosen niche. It's not for everyone - it's not for a LOT of people! - but don't you DARE call my work "demeaning" because it doesn't happen to be your cup of tea. It is MY art, and MY passion. I'm terribly offended my your smallmindedness. Just because I don't do high fashion doesn't make my images any less meaningful than yours; just because you get paid big bucks for your art doesn't mean it speaks more loudly to the heart than mine does. Are those of us unable to do high fashion supposed to meekly shuffle off to the side so you "important" people can get on with your work? *snorts* Get a grip and shut your mouth.
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30131
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
It's hard to call it "degrading women" when the women go out of their way for the privilege. I've got a shoot coming up in October that too many models want in on...for no money. One is flying to MI from Fla at her own expense to be "degraded" by me for the fourth time while another is driving from OH to be degraded for the third time...I'm talking to another who volunteered to take a train from Chicago and be degraded by me for the second time [if i can fit her in]...And that's not counting the other model from IL who's bummed out because she can't make it that weekend. She's going to drive to Pittsburgh on her own later so I can degrade her there.
Did i mention the model who's putting us all up and providing the locations where this degradation is to occur? It will be her second time as well.
If you like, I'll give you their MM numbers so you can "save" them, since my Jedi mind tricks are obviously too powerful for them. Quite a tale Melv ......
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30131
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Leda Locke wrote:
Oh, yes. SAVE me from the AWESOME PHOTOGRAPHERS. I couldn't POSSIBLY want to take fantastic, edgy, striking (and maybe even shocking!) pictures with artists of this caliber, ESPECIALLY if they have the INDECENCY to make me look fucking amazing.
Seriously dude - bondage is not in any way demeaning to me as a woman. I give my consent freely, and *I* am the one in control of what happens to me, regardless of who is behind the camera, doing the tying, etc. I can walk away at any time. The fact that I find that doing this work makes me feel powerful and very aware of myself as a woman (and SAFE to display myself as fully as I do!), that I find these images fascinating and beautiful, and that they speak to me on such a powerful level, makes this truly my chosen niche. It's not for everyone - it's not for a LOT of people! - but don't you DARE call my work "demeaning" because it doesn't happen to be your cup of tea. It is MY art, and MY passion. I'm terribly offended my your smallmindedness. Just because I don't do high fashion doesn't make my images any less meaningful than yours; just because you get paid big bucks for your art doesn't mean it speaks more loudly to the heart than mine does. Are those of us unable to do high fashion supposed to meekly shuffle off to the side so you "important" people can get on with your work? *snorts* Get a grip and shut your mouth. Well you are definilty in the minority re models in general ..Most models I know ( and I know a lot ) consider this genre of photography at best a joke ...but hey its your right and all the power to y'all
Photographer
Kentsoul
Posts: 9739
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Garry k wrote:
Well you are definilty in the minority re models in general ..Most models I know ( and I know a lot ) consider this genre of photography at best a joke ...but hey its your right and all the power to y'all I'm beginning to think your knowledge of "what models think" is about as encompassing as your knowledge of the law.
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