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Why are photographers so secretive from each other
I wanted to work with a model who another photographer worked with. I wasn't able to do the shoot with the model and paid the model a cancellation fee. I asked the photographer who had worked with him if he could email a few pics from his shoot just so I didn't feel bad for getting nothing for my money. His said that he couldn't do it and didn't explain why. I then asked him if he would be selling them and he never replied. Later on that model posted a few pics from that session so I saw some anyway. I had a bad experience with this one model who lied to me among other things. I contacted one of the photographers he worked with and told him and I wanted to ask him about his experience working with the model and compare notes and he never called me or replied back. Why are photographers so secretive with each other? Do I not know photographer etiquette? (sp?) What gives? What would you have done? Aug 26 06 06:05 pm Link Just so long as u are inquiring about the models.....i have no problem giving u info. But if u are going to ask me how i achieved a certain lighting effect that i spent hundreds of hours learning and perfecting (watching videos, assisting other photographers for "FREE", reading books, doing internet research) as well as thousands of dollars (equipment, studio rentals, paid testing for models and make-up).....then i probably would have an issue with giving that info out. Why should i invest in all of this knowledge, then hand it over to u on a "Silver Platter". Probably one of the biggest issues i have about us photographers is that we are lazy. Most of us don't want to take the time to test out lighting or what have u. We would rather "Steal" some one elses hard gained knowledge, and expect them to cough it up.....and when they don't then they get ridaculed for not doing so. Now, i'm not saying this is the case with u.....again, u just seemed like u wanted to find out general info on the model. But u did say that u ask another photographer to e-mail shots that "He" did of a model to u? I don't know about that one, Bro! But to get back on track, if there are "Simple" and "Basic" questions other photographers would like to know on equipment, lighting or other techniques.....i don't have a problem giving them insight. I only have a problem when they see an "Advanced" technique that i have spent time, effort and money on.....and they want me to give them a "Play-By-Play" talk on how I achieved it. My first question to them would be....."Did U at least try to attempt it first before U just came and asked me?!!" ....just my 2 cents! Aug 26 06 06:33 pm Link Photos By Deej wrote: Wow, that's creepy. Why do you want photos of this guy so badly? Sounds like a personal desire as opposed to professional interest. Aug 26 06 06:43 pm Link Cspine wrote: It sounds like you have more of an issue than me. I already answered this question in my original post. Aug 26 06 07:00 pm Link Photos By Deej wrote: I'm not sure I understand this statement. Aug 26 06 07:10 pm Link Side Effects Studio wrote: That sounds a bit odd to me too. Aug 26 06 07:12 pm Link Sorry, I'd rather not say why we are so secretive. Aug 26 06 07:15 pm Link Photos By Deej wrote: I imagine he did not send them to you because there just wasn't any legitimate professional reason to do so. Nothing to do with secrecy. I am sure that my models wouldn't want me to forward their image to anyone just because they did not 'want to feel bad'. Aug 26 06 07:17 pm Link lol Aug 26 06 07:17 pm Link When someone asks me for a photo of one of my models, I tell them to ask the model... or if it's easy (model sitting next to me or something) I'll ask them directly. Stunning as it may be, I think models have rights too. Aug 26 06 07:20 pm Link Aug 26 06 07:21 pm Link & reminds me of an issue that came up around Easter it was bugging me so much to know who died - someone died ok so anyway - i never asked anything i was trying to be sensitive & didn't want to pry at the time but then i just had to ask! it was the last chance to speak to this person in person and i asked ( prefacing by saying i didnt want to open wounds or discuss it at all now but that it was REALLY bugging me and had been all this time so, just generally speaking .. WHO was it who had died? The reply? ''Well, if you dont mind - I'd rather not answer that!'' WTF!! Secretive people!! Aug 26 06 07:21 pm Link Photos By Deej wrote: you must also remember...your eatchother competition... thats like Kmart calling up Walmart...and wanting advice... Aug 26 06 07:28 pm Link we're secretive because we can be! Aug 26 06 07:30 pm Link Cspine wrote: Photos By Deej wrote: Photos By Deej wrote: Side Effects Studio wrote: Deej: Aug 26 06 08:03 pm Link If I told you the reason why I'm so secretive, I'd have to kill you. Aug 26 06 08:05 pm Link We can be colleagues professionally....while of course looking out for our interests. Aug 26 06 08:07 pm Link Photos By Deej wrote: I think that I, along with most of the people who have responded to this, are confused by it. You made an appointment with a model, it didnt work out on your end. Aug 26 06 08:24 pm Link Aug 26 06 08:26 pm Link "I contacted one of the photographers he worked with and told him and I wanted to ask him about his experience working with the model and compare notes and he never called me or replied back." Sorry but I would not have replied either. It hs nothing to do with being secretive, I just don't 'gossip' about models. If you had a bad time with a model I had a good shoot with, I frankly don't care. It's none of my business and as for sending you photos, why should I? What's in it for me to send you free pix? Minding one's own business has nothing to do with being secretive. Aug 26 06 08:26 pm Link Photos By Deej wrote: I know but Im not tellin'!!! Aug 26 06 08:29 pm Link Alright dude. I took one look at your port, and it's mostly very pretty, semi naked, or implicated naked dudes. Plus a couple, or loan chick thrown in for good measure. Now I'm not saying anything, but I am saying this. If you cancel on a model, why in the world would you want to purchase pictures from another photographer, of the dude you cancelled on? You are paying for someone elses images of someone you stood up! What is that? Are you prone to giving money away? I could use some, look me up. For real. But I'm not going to sell you pictures of any of my models to get it. Why not just shoot with the dude again at some point? And didn't the dude in question, meaning the model, have a port or something that you saw before hand, to even know that you wanted to shoot him in the first place? What I don't get, is why you don't get that this some truly odd stuff to post man. Sincerely. You put it out here, and the consensus is pretty much the same on all fronts....creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepy! Aug 26 06 08:48 pm Link Urban Eclipse Studio wrote: How about spillin' your guts about the shots that you just luck out on? Aug 26 06 08:59 pm Link Ought To Be Shot wrote: Sure, I can tell u that secret.....I got those shots by the Grace Of GOD! Aug 26 06 09:03 pm Link Ought To Be Shot wrote: That's the true secret. Which gods and goddesses you pray to, for the shot. Aug 26 06 10:19 pm Link this is why they bring escorts c r e e p y ! ! Aug 26 06 10:23 pm Link Just read the OP....yes, it's CREEPY! The other point is why should any photographer give away things it took years to learn? Just because someone is a photographer doesn't mean he's a saint. Shit, he'll bend you over first sight of high paying gig. I've worked in this field for many years. Yes, have many photographer friends but we all know it ME FIRST when it comes to money. No hard feelings but we all need to make a buck. C O M P E T I T I O N can be a real bitch! Just put it this way. Playboy calls you up and says "we love your unique style and would you consider doing a spread for us?" So, are you going to call all your photographer friends and not only tell them about the offer but show them your style which Playboy is willing to pay top dollar? Or do you believe that none of your close buddies might just might contact Playboy and offer them the same style for less bucks? Yeah, right! Aug 26 06 11:57 pm Link man this is worser than high school or even kindergarten Aug 27 06 12:03 am Link Contacting someone for a reference is totally fine, as long as you keep it professional. "Buying" the photographer's images of the model is weird. Like others have said, I don't understand what purpose they would serve. It's not like you can claim they're your shots. Aug 27 06 12:26 am Link I will share pretty much any and all info with another photographer. If me and 3 other photographers shoot the same model, we are going to come away 4 different photos. If someone wants to know a lighting technique or a trick in Photoshop I would be happy to share.....I have done it many times. Some guys like to keep things to themselves......I personally like to help other people out. you play your way......I'll play my way lol Aug 27 06 12:34 am Link Ok, thanks everyone for your feedback. there were a couple helpful posts. The photographer that thought my request was "odd". I appreciate. the rest of you who called me "creepy" to hell with you. How would you like it if someone called you creepy? That's not very nice at all. I see now that being vulnerable on this forum is not an option. If all you photographers think that you are so professional that you are above buying another photographers work then good for you. I know damn well that many photographers have purchased work by another photographer and I bet a lot of you have photos stored on your computer that you've snatched off the web so don't try to judge & label my behavior as wierd. For the photogrpaher that asked if both models I mentioned were the same model, no they aren't. For the photographer that asked the sensible question as to why I didn't just shoot with him again is b/c the model was visiting from out of town and had no immediate plans to return and I wasn't really sure if I could or would come up with the money again to shoot with him. For the photographers that got the impression I "stood" the model up. I did not stand the model up. As I mentioned before the shoot was cancelled the day before or day of the shoot. I told the model shortly after we scheduled that I didn't think the time frame would work for me but it insisted I not cancel the shoot b/c no photographer has ever cancelled a shoot with him. So I told him that I would pay him whether we did the shoot or not. I paid the model for the full session that didn't happen so what's the problem there? I'm sure most models would want to be paid for doing nothing. For the photographer that said that he would have told me to ask the model for the pics. People constantly grab photographer's pics and create fake profiles and not of those people asked for the stolen pics. I thought I was being polite but I guess now I can see why people steal picks b/c they don't want to be "creepy" by asking. For the photographers that explained how their hard work and years of perfecting a creative technique they would not want to share, I totally get that. thank you. It didn't even dawn on me before but that makes sense. The Kmart/Walmart comparison was also good. Don't worry I won't be posting anymore creepy topics on the forum b/c we all know that no one has ever posted a creepy topic. It's really sad that photographers have to bring each other down. Lastly, I really don't see how what kind of pics I have posted in my portfolio have anything to do with the post topic. I'm sure no photographer on this site has ever had a thought or action that differed from the norm. That's why all our portfolios on MM look exactly alike b/c we all think alike. Freedom of thought or expression is obviously not welcome here so you don't have to worry about me posting any more "creepy" topics ever! You're welcome. Goodnight & good luck. Aug 27 06 05:08 am Link But what you haven't said is why you wanted the pictures. That is what is at the bottom of the "creepy" responses. If you have seen pictures of that model in a style you like and want to study and learn from fine. ou are right lots of (including me) download the image for a closer look at lighting or for signs of sun blockers etc. If though you just want photos of this model that you haven't seen, that sounds like you are "colecting" pictures of a specific model. What you would want to do with them is what people are considering and infering less than flattering reasons. As for being vulnerable in a net forum (especially) this site and not expecting to get heaped on. Do you read these forums. This is mayhem, it's a shark tank. That's what most of us lurk for. The no shows have long since marginalised the web for working contacts. We just like to bitch and moan and vent in between editing. Aug 27 06 05:37 am Link gdsandy wrote: "We used to hate people Aug 27 06 05:45 am Link missing fingers product wrote: what is? your grammer? Aug 27 06 06:06 am Link ok, so you bye these fotos of this male model your talking about that you had wished to shoot? your a photographer, so I don't know what you would do with them....save your money, and shoot someone else if needed, I would think? Aug 27 06 06:45 am Link ANTHONY CRAMER wrote: I'm not going to do anything with them but look at them. Why are people so up in arms about this? Geez. What do people think I'm going to do with them? Come on people? I wouldn't do anything with the photos that I would want someone to do with my photos. I guess I'm just different b/c I wouldn't have thought it was a big deal if someone had asked me this. It's a cruel cruel world. One other thing, I wouldn't have even asked the photographer about the pics if I hadn't met him in person and been to his home or seen him at an art showing "selling" his work. Gimmie a break. You are right. I will save my money and shoot someone else. Thank you for that intelligent response. That's what I really needed to hear. Aug 27 06 12:44 pm Link The creepy part is that your interest is in the model and your own viewing pleasure. MM FAQ wrote: Substitute 'guys' for 'ladies' and we have........ YOU! Aug 27 06 03:20 pm Link . Aug 27 06 03:39 pm Link Just throwing something out there - someone else pointed out that it shouldn't be wierd to purchase another photographers art... I agree with this 100%. I see models that I think are fabulous models, and if the OP likes the photographers work - Why shouldn't he want to purchase some of the pieces? There are a lot of other photographers who have worked with models that I think are great - I would purchase their work in an instant, if I saw a shot that I liked. I agree that the phrasing of his inquiry could have been better, but in the end, IF it is just enjoyment of the photographers work and liking the model in the shots, what does it matter if he is looking at it for pleasure? Isn't that why we create photos?? Viewing pleasure? Just because he is a photographer and can shoot something himself, doesn't change the fact that he is also a consumer. ~S Aug 27 06 03:39 pm Link missing fingers product wrote: gavin oneill wrote: One more reason I think Gavin rocks... Aug 27 06 03:45 pm Link |
