Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6511
Los Angeles, California, US
This is really cracking me up.
So far the relative concensus is that this guy is some perverted creep. All because he wanted to get prints from another photographer? I've got prints from photographer friends/collegues. Does that make me creepy, too (not saying that I ain't creepy but I digress...).
I like having other people's work... one day I might point to a picture on my wall and say to my great-great-great grandkiddies:
"That's an original photo by :::insert your name here:::. Your
ol' pappy used to be a photographer, too, y'know? I coulda made a
lotta money like :::insert your name here::: but I wasn't an
souless, ass-kissin' bastid like :::insert your name here:::.
Maybe I'll will it to one a' yous when my pace maker breaks..."
So, why's it okay if it's so-called art? I've had people ask me for prints of my work (those people obviously have no taste at all) and I sure don't shoot art. Are they creepy, too? What kinds of work can you purchase and not be a creep?
Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6511
Los Angeles, California, US
Photographer
Anderson Artwork
Posts: 493
Kansas City, Missouri, US
jcrainey wrote:
Now THAT's how to keep a secret! Mums the word!
LOL
Photographer
John Valdez
Posts: 93
Anaheim, California, US
Digiography wrote:
Sorry, I'd rather not say why we are so secretive. hahah true
i guess part of the reason we're not so into sharing is simply because its our work, and we are so proud of what we've come up with that it would be stupid to just TELL YOU how we achieved the photo in question. that it would be much better to simply stand back and appreciate, instead of knowing what went on behind the scenes.
well, that and im a big ol meanie pants
Photographer
Benjamen McGuire
Posts: 3991
Portland, Oregon, US
Saryn Angel wrote:
Just throwing something out there - someone else pointed out that it shouldn't be wierd to purchase another photographers art...
I agree with this 100%. I see models that I think are fabulous models, and if the OP likes the photographers work - Why shouldn't he want to purchase some of the pieces?
There are a lot of other photographers who have worked with models that I think are great - I would purchase their work in an instant, if I saw a shot that I liked.
I agree that the phrasing of his inquiry could have been better, but in the end, IF it is just enjoyment of the photographers work and liking the model in the shots, what does it matter if he is looking at it for pleasure? Isn't that why we create photos?? Viewing pleasure?
Just because he is a photographer and can shoot something himself, doesn't change the fact that he is also a consumer.
~S I suppose I was assuming that the op approached the model as a photographer, not a consumer.
"Dear model, I really want to see you naked. Would you come to my house and show me your weiner? I want photos too, I can take them myself or buy them from someone else."
Photographer
Mark J. Sebastian
Posts: 1530
San Francisco, California, US
ahhh, soo much judging in this thread... if someone wants to know any of my technique, thats fine. i'll tell them as long as it doesn't ruin the artwork. I'm a new age hippy though. There's a pirate flag on my balcony which probably explains a lot  A lot of my photoshop source files are freely floating around the web if you know where to find them. My personal thoughts is that a photo should start with an idea. if the idea is your strongest point, then nobody can rip you off, no matter what techniques they have.
Photographer
Meehan
Posts: 2463
Merrimack, New Hampshire, US
Mark Sebastian wrote:
ahhh, soo much judging in this thread...
if someone wants to know any of my technique, thats fine. i'll tell them as long as it doesn't ruin the artwork. I'm a new age hippy though. There's a pirate flag on my balcony which probably explains a lot
A lot of my photoshop source files are freely floating around the web if you know where to find them.
My personal thoughts is that a photo should start with an idea. if the idea is your strongest point, then nobody can rip you off, no matter what techniques they have. Here Here!
Photographer
Analog Nomad
Posts: 4097
Pattaya, Central, Thailand
I'm not sure about the specific details of this thread, but I agree -- we photographers can be quite secretive.
Now, are we more secretive than other professions? I don't think so. I used to work in product development for a large computer manufacturer. Now you want to talk about secretive. . .
I think part of the problem in photography is that it IS a very tough business. We work so hard to develop our client base, and there's always somebody willing to come along and bs their way into our pocket.
Last week, I lost a job I was bidding on for some brochure photography for a local contractor -- another photographer convinced the contractor that my 1DsMkII and RZ67 image quality wasn't sufficient for the 5x8-inch brochure -- only HIS 4x5 camera provided the resolution sufficient for the job. The contractor doesn't know me from adam, so he believed this crap. Sheesh.
I also get a lot of requests for model's emails and phone numbers. I dunno -- I'm not a dating service -- I figure if a model wants to put herself out there, she'll get an account on MM or OMP -- and I've pissed off a few of my brothers/competitors by refusing to forward their info to a model.
Regards,
Paul
Photographer
GD Photowerks
Posts: 130
Nashville, Tennessee, US
I find that the main reason most photographers won't trade info with another is they are afraid that the other photographer's work will be better than theirs. This is also the reason they are so quick to bash another photographer's work.
Photographer
FKVPhotography
Posts: 30064
Ocala, Florida, US
GD Photowerks wrote:
I find that the main reason most photographers won't trade info with another is they are afraid that the other photographer's work will be better than theirs. This is also the reason they are so quick to bash another photographer's work. That statement belies a total misunderstanding of this business. I've had many friends who were photographers. We socialized, went on photo safaris together, belonged to the same organizations but when it came to business we all understood that we were in competition.
While we didn't "cutthroat" each other as some that I have read about in the same respect we just didn't make our business side an open book for others to read. It was always understood that if we bid on the same assignments that small edge one might have was extremely important. We respected that.
Which is not to say we didn't help each other out when working on different assignment. That we did all the time. If a particular lens or piece of equipment was needed I would never hesitate to loan or ask for one. The key being DIFFERENT assignemnts. Not competing for the same one.
As far as "bashing" others work for fear it might be better. My work is my work. I'm sure there are others who are much better than me. Conversely there are other much worse. Who gets hired or not because of their work is just the business we're in.
Making negative comments about another's work to a propective client is the sure fire way to never work for that client again. There have been times when looking over a possible assignment I felt another photographer might better fill the need. And I let the client know this.
It has paid off many times since. It made the client trust my judgement and give me first shot at future assignments because I valued the client over the few dollars I might have made and then producing a product which fell short of the clients needs.
I think a lot what makes this business is forgotten here in MM. Personally I feel being a professional means exactly that....PROFESSIONAL!
Photographer
Terrence Blount
Posts: 379
Chicago, Illinois, US
If it wasn't for the fact that people steal other photographers work, then we as photographers wouldn't be so secretive.
Photographer
CAP603
Posts: 1438
Niles, Michigan, US
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Photographer
E L M O
Posts: 60
Saint Paul, Minnesota, US
Saryn Angel wrote:
Just throwing something out there - someone else pointed out that it shouldn't be wierd to purchase another photographers art...
I agree with this 100%. I see models that I think are fabulous models, and if the OP likes the photographers work - Why shouldn't he want to purchase some of the pieces?
There are a lot of other photographers who have worked with models that I think are great - I would purchase their work in an instant, if I saw a shot that I liked.
I agree that the phrasing of his inquiry could have been better, but in the end, IF it is just enjoyment of the photographers work and liking the model in the shots, what does it matter if he is looking at it for pleasure? Isn't that why we create photos?? Viewing pleasure?
Just because he is a photographer and can shoot something himself, doesn't change the fact that he is also a consumer.
~S well said.
Photographer
GDS Photos
Posts: 3399
London, England, United Kingdom
naturalblush wrote:
well said. well said well said
Photographer
Fotticelli
Posts: 12252
Rockville, Maryland, US
Eww! The OP sounds creepy. Maybe it's just the way it was written. To me it sounds like: hey John, I spent fifty bucks and didn't get a single shot of her/his crotch. Did you get any? Can you send me a couple?
Photographer
GD Photowerks
Posts: 130
Nashville, Tennessee, US
FKVPhotoGraphics wrote:
That statement belies a total misunderstanding of this business. I've had many friends who were photographers. We socialized, went on photo safaris together, belonged to the same organizations but when it came to business we all understood that we were in competition.
While we didn't "cutthroat" each other as some that I have read about in the same respect we just didn't make our business side an open book for others to read. It was always understood that if we bid on the same assignments that small edge one might have was extremely important. We respected that.
Which is not to say we didn't help each other out when working on different assignment. That we did all the time. If a particular lens or piece of equipment was needed I would never hesitate to loan or ask for one. The key being DIFFERENT assignemnts. Not competing for the same one.
As far as "bashing" others work for fear it might be better. My work is my work. I'm sure there are others who are much better than me. Conversely there are other much worse. Who gets hired or not because of their work is just the business we're in.
Making negative comments about another's work to a propective client is the sure fire way to never work for that client again. There have been times when looking over a possible assignment I felt another photographer might better fill the need. And I let the client know this.
It has paid off many times since. It made the client trust my judgement and give me first shot at future assignments because I valued the client over the few dollars I might have made and then producing a product which fell short of the clients needs.
I think a lot what makes this business is forgotten here in MM. Personally I feel being a professional means exactly that....PROFESSIONAL! Actually the 1st line in this reply only serves to prove my point. I've worked in the photo business for 25 years, always taking photos but also at various times working in labs and selling camera equipment, and teaching classes in photography. I would hardly say I have a complete misunderstanding of the business. It has been my experience that most photographers (both pro & non) tend to talk down anothers work or skill even when they are not in competition with each other. Personally I've always attributed it to artistic temperment. When they are in direct competition . . . well then blood tends to flow.
Photographer
Art Richards Creatives
Posts: 107
Bogo, Central Visayas, Philippines
Digiography wrote:
Sorry, I'd rather not say why we are so secretive. ROFL... beautiful. And no, I will never tell where I shot that sunset.
Photographer
FKVPhotography
Posts: 30064
Ocala, Florida, US
GD Photowerks wrote:
Actually the 1st line in this reply only serves to prove my point. I've worked in the photo business for 25 years, always taking photos but also at various times working in labs and selling camera equipment, and teaching classes in photography. I would hardly say I have a complete misunderstanding of the business. It has been my experience that most photographers (both pro & non) tend to talk down anothers work or skill even when they are not in competition with each other. Personally I've always attributed it to artistic temperment. When they are in direct competition . . . well then blood tends to flow. Sounds like you need a new set of friends or start meeting a better class of people.
Photographer
Jay Davis
Posts: 83
Irving, Texas, US
I find this post very interesting from both a photographer's standpoint and just a casual observer. I think my work is okay, nothing great as some of the stuff that is posted here, but it is adequate.
With that being said, a while back, I asked a photographer who is on this web site how they achieved a certain result, whether it was a lighting technique or a photoshop technique. He responded that if he told me, I would be competition to him and would go out and steal his customers.
I was totally floored and blown away by his comments. I have since learned that this photographer is a "A # 1 Asshole" and I've been told this by many other photographers. So now, I partially consider the source.
I would also like to say that I am a member of the Dallas Professional Photogaphers Association and ALL the members of this organization are more or less in competition with the other photographers in the group. Yet, I've also never seen such a HELPFUL group of photographers in my life, helping each other out with new techniques, tackling problems and how to overcome situations, I've learned quite a bit from this group and appreciate all the members deeply.
I understand how many of you have put years and years and so much time into photographer and I'll give you your due, yet I also believe it doesn't hurt to help each other out, as well. What goes around comes around and Karma can be a real BITCH at times.
I am always trying to help out other photographers because so many photographers have helped me out as I've learned the become a better photographer. Kinda like the "Pay it Forward" movie theme.
Photographer
Studio Ink
Posts: 17
Loganville, Georgia, US
i'm new at this...but personally, i've had a great experience with other photographers giving me thier opinion and sharing thier wealth of professional information with me. i guess i've been lucky. i just haven't experienced any negativity, yet.
Model
CrazyRussianHelicopter
Posts: 3256
Madison, Alabama, US
Digiography wrote:
Sorry, I'd rather not say why we are so secretive.
Photographer
Jose Luis
Posts: 2890
Dallas, Texas, US
Be nice, be helpful- never trust completely or blindly.
My nature is very open and honest- and these same guys who come at you one day humble and wanting to learn- the next day are spreading lies about you to models and other forms of hating.
-Jose
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