|
Forums >
General Industry >
Nudity and Morality
I have noticed when I am browsing models information about themselves that quite a few, both men and women make the statement that their morals will not let them do nude photos. Maybe not in this wording exactly but in essence this is what they are saying. We are not talking about erotic nudes, any photos that are in any way hinting at pornography but just plain nudes. I'm almost certain that this idea comes from their parents and of course, they will probably pass this to their kids too. It is amazing in this day and age that people still equate nudity with being immoral or dirty. Something interesting, a friend of mine told me that his parents in their 40 year marriage never saw each other in the nude. The lights were out when they were having sex. In America, it is fine for kids to watch tv or go to movies where untold numbers of people are being killed but dare one scene in a film show a body part that shows more flesh than a lot of people think is decent and all kinds of protests will be made against the film or tv show. If people profess to be moral, then why do a lot of kids and adults use language that would shock anyone 25 years ago and no one seems to be concerned about this. It has become the norm. So, if a person claims to have good morals, then it should be across the board, not selective morals Aug 20 06 07:39 pm Link If someone doesn't want to do nudes then that's their choice, it doesn't matter what their reason. Aug 20 06 07:44 pm Link Americans, in general, are small minded. Is that a surprise? Aug 20 06 07:48 pm Link John Hough Photographer wrote: I can't agree more. Especially with the comment about language that would shock people 25 yrs ago. However 25 yrs ago the wrong comment to the wrong person could have got you a big punch in the mouth or a slap across the face. Aug 20 06 07:50 pm Link Thats a generalizing statement about Americans. Its turning around slowly, I think. The culture itself is sexually explicit but at the same time sexually silent. My mom thinks my modeling is disgusting because I have done nudes. She thinks ANY nudity is blasphemy. I say its natural..if someone else doesnt want to fine, but dont harp on others for it. As for the violence thing, its true..and it doesnt make any sense. Aug 20 06 07:51 pm Link The problem is that all morals are selective. What maybe considered immoral by one person is not by another (abortion, capital punishment, homosexuality, etc.). Each person needs to develop their own sense of whats right and whats wrong and while we often get our first suggestions of that from our parents, we are also impacted by media, peers, and everyone we meet. Laws (both religious and secular) were made primarily on the principle of "I don't want someone to do that to me and therefore its wrong". So if you need to decide if something is moral or not you 1st need to look at how it effects you but remember that the effect it has on someone else can in turn effect you in ways you may not be aware of, ie: banning an artist's work as immoral or offensive may result in them never producing anything else and the world misses out on the incredible masterpiece that they would have produced 3 years from now. Aug 20 06 07:53 pm Link Isn't it "Nudity VERSUS Morality"? Someone doesn't want to get nude, fine with me. I've seen some interesting variations, models who will be photographed in sheers or even body paint but not nude. It may not be any easier to define nudity that it is morality? I think most of the time it is fear that somebody else will find out and react in a close-minded way. Aug 20 06 07:54 pm Link Everybody's got a special kind of story. Everybody finds a way to shine. http://youtube.com/watch?v=TZotK5UCFRo Aug 20 06 08:12 pm Link Octavia wrote: If you'd been at FetishCon last weekend, watching everyone running around trying to be "2257 compliant" you might not think so. Aug 20 06 08:14 pm Link This day and age? This debate has gone on for 1000's of years. Periods have been against nudity and at other times nudity is widely accepted. Today is no different. Aug 20 06 08:14 pm Link John Hough Photographer wrote: And to come to complete conclusion parents cannot shield their children since they aren't 100 percent around their children to protect them. children will see naked adults on tv or movies ... and however their children percieve this will be their own, which is where we get models and their opinions. either or it is a choice and not morality. people of today veiw porn, naked photos and raunchy things as being dirty and unfit for children or even adults. naked people in public is illegal. all this i believe is a choice, not morality. whether in public or in private people have sex, people do kinky things, end of story. trying to tell your children that it does not happen is full of shit. instead they need to help them understand what it is, why they do it and that it is ownly considered proper when people are in relationships for long time(in my own opinon) and love each other. overall you can't just delete it from children's lives because thats pure idiocy and denial. being naked in any circumstance isn't that you're dirty, its that your comfortable in your own body and you don't mind showing it to others. the only improper time is when you're raping someone or exposing yourself to a roomful of people when they're not expecting it. its not good morals it is the norm and its fear that keeps people away from shooting nude photos. and personally ... i am fearful and i admit it. Aug 20 06 08:37 pm Link This is funny. People like to say that those who don't want to pose nude are uptight or have issues with sexuality but have you (general reference) ever been that person without clothes in front of the camera? Likely not. It's easy to regurgitate some miscellaneous psychobabble bullshit when you haven't been in such a situation. To project things like that upon people who simply made a personal decision is just ridiculous. It's not "typically American" to not want to pose nude and, apparently, not be comfortable with your body... what is to typically American is to make an issue of it on either side at all. And really, there are enough models open and eager to be naked in front of the camera to not worry about the ones who refuse or the reasons behind their decision. And there are plenty of reasons to make such a decision. Some morally motivated, others professionally motivated. All of them are equally valid because they are valid to those who hold them. They need not be validated by anyone else. The fact that a woman cusses like a sailor and doesn't want to pose nude for a photographer isn't selective morals. It's just a personal decision. Again, most of the people (read: male photographers) would never ever pose nude themselves. I'm just waiting for the day that a model says to a photographer "Okay, I'll pose nude for you if I can take some nudes of you and post them online." Aug 20 06 09:02 pm Link Tim Hammond wrote: No more of a surprise then the small mindedness of saying 295,734,134 (+/- 28% undocumented residents), from everywhere, in general, would think one way or the other. Aug 20 06 10:14 pm Link "Moral" christian america still rules the media, and hence the mind of the general masses. Aug 20 06 10:17 pm Link Right wing rule #12 A serial killer can kill sixty women ; but he just cant fuck them. A pervert - death to him - looks at a photo of a naked woman. Aug 20 06 10:21 pm Link Jay Bowman wrote: There're already nudes of me online. Aug 20 06 10:52 pm Link SLE Photography wrote: I just threw up a little in my mouth. Nice. Reeeeaaal nice. Aug 20 06 10:56 pm Link Tim Hammond wrote: Is it just me or does this statement sound a little small minded? I really don't know why anybody cares... Let the Amish live without power... let models pose buttoned up to the eyebrows or full on spread shot... Why is everybody so insistent that a "prude" or a "slut" have to change to the others way of thinking... Aug 20 06 11:00 pm Link the fact that the most moral can be the most sexually frustrated and closeted, is simply annoying. be free for godsakes. Aug 20 06 11:06 pm Link another thread on this topic? good grief. my 2 cents (again) i'm morally bereft, thats a long established fact, but does that explain my using my penis as a monopod? i think not. i doubt it even has much to do with my serial killings, molestations, fame or lack thereof. innocence was lost in the garden. you'd think by now we'd get over that. but that said, to each his/her own. may your morals comfortably fit the facts of your life... rich Aug 20 06 11:10 pm Link one mans morals are another mans pleasure.... Morality can only be defined by the person who uses the term... Aug 20 06 11:13 pm Link I have been saying this for a long time. I would prefer seeing nudity rather than violence on TV. When I see a criminal get gunned down on a dashcam video and no one complains in the room it worries me. We just watched a life end in the blink of an eye. Then I hear that endless chatter about Big Brother and the nominations that occured last night. This is not only happening her in the U.S. either. Many cultures have their own issues. Just be glad we don't have to kill our wives because they accidentally showed their face in public. Aug 20 06 11:17 pm Link John Hough Photographer wrote: ...maybe some people just don't like the idea of getting naked for everyone to see and they need an indesputable reason to keep people like you at bay...morals are subjective. Aug 20 06 11:21 pm Link John, I 2nd your emotion! I know some models think & have it drilled into their skull that nudity will hender their career and certain agencies, managers etc will not work with them if they do so. Aug 20 06 11:23 pm Link Tim Hammond wrote: come up with something better than that... Aug 20 06 11:23 pm Link Legend Images wrote: You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say anyone needs to change their way of thinking. I believe most Americans are small minded because of the way they arrive at their beliefs, not because of what they believe. Most Americans were told when they were five years old or so that only dirty people show their private parts, that "good" people are ashamed if others see their bodies, and it became gospel to them. They've equated nudity with immorality ever since, and they will vehemently defend that position, even preemptively, without ever thinking about what moral and immoral mean and how or why nudity might fit into that. It's bad because mommy/daddy/preacher/teacher said it's dirty: end of story. That's small minded. I commend those who've actually thought it through and decided that for them it's immoral, but I seriously doubt that's more than a tiny percentage of the American population. Aug 20 06 11:25 pm Link Justin N Lane wrote: Why? I belive it explains the OP's observation. The need to preemptively point out that nudes are immoral is characteristic of those who take that position because that's what mommy/daddy/preacher/teacher told them and they're not willing to consider any other possibility, therefore they don't need to think it through. An explanation doesn't have to be complex to be on target. Aug 20 06 11:33 pm Link Everyone has their own way of thinking, and I respect that. I may not agree with all of you who have previously spoken, but I do see eye to eye with what a few of you had to say. ...I personally believe that it is not always about what you do, but the intentions with which you do it. A nude picture can be art. I've seen that and it's beautiful. Sometimes its good to take your mind out of the gutter and appreciate the artistic quality of something, instead of always thinking it's foul. I don't have any nudes in my portfolio now because I am a minor...but once I turn 18, I might consider doing one..artistic, of course. Aug 20 06 11:53 pm Link Usually morality is a learned behavior, ingrained from childhood and not a rational decision. That's part of the problem in this and every other society; few base their life choices on consistent interpretation of a set of carefully thought out core values. It's a lot of work to develop a coherent personal philosophy, even for those who have been trained in philosophy. The required reading is challenging, the thought process rigorous. That's why the beliefs of even the political party purist are typically filled with contradictions; those beliefs are aquired from a peer group, and never checked against underlying core beliefs. To the person who feels morally obligated to avoid nudity, the feeling is very real, very powerful. Even if that person, for whatever reason, decides to change their opinion, taking action is not always easy. Once I photographed a 40-year old woman who I knew from the gym. She had grown up in a small town in the loess hills of western Iowa, had clearly stated how difficult this was going to be for her, but that she wanted to do it. She talked about how her mother would disown her if she knew. In those photos, the fear in her eyes is real, it's precisely what makes one of the images in particular quite powerful. Morals? She had been raised believing that nudity was immoral. She had become a big city corporate manager capable of being ruthless when circumstances required... you probably wouldn't want to be across the table from her in a negotiation. So it's all relative. But, she's one of several I've photographed who, gradually and by choice, pushed and expanded their own limits. But what's wrong with respecting the decisions of others, even as we work at a cultural level to encourage change? I'd argue that pushing a young woman who isn't ready to do nudity will itself, at some point, cross the line of morality. The (often) older and more experienced photographer, if he refuses to accept "no" as an answer and begins to coerce, eventually reaches a point where he abuses his power. Where exactly is that line? That's another debate entirely, but clearly some here cross it. Aug 20 06 11:54 pm Link SLE Photography wrote: Jay Bowman wrote: And THAT is why more photographers don't post them LOL Aug 20 06 11:55 pm Link I personally want to do nude modeling, but I have chosen not to because I want to be a teacher. I don't see the prolbem with being a teacher and having posed nude, but a lot of people don't see it that way and because so many people are close minded I wouldn't want to put my career in harms way. Aug 20 06 11:57 pm Link Some of us have career goals that go beyond modeling. Aug 21 06 12:01 am Link What I find interesting about all of this is that people feel the need to add a disclaimer or reason as to why or why not they will or wont do something. "I do nudes" or "I dont do nudes" should be just fine... I do nudes and my morals are A O.K. with me. Totally off topic: I often wonder what photographers would do nudes or not do nudes were they a model. Aug 21 06 12:04 am Link i really think anyone who wants to work as a teacher , for a government agency , the military , any respectable position in any institution should really think twice about doing any nude model work that may be published. it may just come back to haunt you which is pretty sad since not everyone views naked bodies ( not pornographic ) as art or beautiful . Aug 21 06 12:06 am Link CareLyn Anita wrote: Aug 21 06 12:10 am Link o0ashiestar0o wrote: ***This is not an attact on the quoted!!!*** Aug 21 06 12:12 am Link CareLyn Anita wrote: Hey, as noted I have done Aug 21 06 01:39 am Link I can photograph nudity. I have no idea how to photograph morality. Aug 21 06 01:40 am Link I have noticed when I am browsing models information about themselves that quite a few, both men and women make the statement that their morals will not let them do nude photos. I've seen many model pages specifying no nudes, but I don't recall ever seeing one that said it was for reasons of morality. What leads you to believe that this is a moral issue for the models? Can you specify any model pages that mention morality as a reason for not posting nude? Aug 21 06 01:52 am Link Jay Bowman wrote: Actually the morality thing IS an attempt to be "holier than thou are' AND an attempt to be validated by others as being moral. Goes back to the bible...yet there are nudes on the ceiling of some of the oldest churches in Italy. Sound contradictory? Of course it is. And I can show you many nude Self Portraits of photographers if you like. Even Imogen Cunningham did them. And her family posed nude for her too. So while it IS a personal choice let's not get on some Bible Belt Morality Bandwagon. Don't want to pose nude for me, fine. No problems. Try to make those that do seem less moral then you. BIG Problem. Aug 21 06 01:56 am Link |
