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Aspiring models boggle my mind..
Why do models ask me to do a shoot and then ask me to PAY them? I'm a working model.. I know how the industry works. Just because you've done a bunch of free portfolio shoots does NOT make you experienced.. especially if your port is crap.. no offense. REAL modeling work makes you experienced. By REAL work I mean paid exposure work that goes beyond modeling for websites, stock photography and promoting beer at your local club. I'm not a bitch.. just tired of big-headed models that are snobby for nothing. Now I understand why photogs bitch so much about aspiring models.. sheesh. Here's some advice to you aspiring/new models: Get portfolio images that will land you a job. That is the point of a portfolio! Don't just get a bunch of pics that you use more for your MySpace account than anything else. Know where your look will sell and go from there. Once you've got a port go to an agency and/or network your ass off. No pay and little paying jobs are what get you the bigger ones. You have to start somewhere. Don't expect to be paid big when you have NO experience besides your portfolio and jobs Heather Marks would never do (ex. promoting beer). Do the respectful jobs that agencies would see as real work. If any of you want anymore advice, feel free to message me. Other than that I'm just here to rant. Aug 16 06 12:01 am Link Tiffany Alonzo wrote: Unfortunately there are a growing number of new models in this fair city that seem to feel that their good looks alone are enough to expect to be paid ( and they know little about such things as posing )Also Some of these young newbie models are being encouraged /misled by their amature photog/managers into believing that this is how the industry works ....... Aug 16 06 12:08 am Link Tiffany, that's why, I think it was Wolf, who coined the term "aspirants". Don't call them "models", they don't deserve that hono(u)r. Aug 16 06 12:32 am Link Well I'm neither snobby nor stupid, but I'd love the ability to travel so I could get REAL work with all you guys. I'm working a dead end job right now just to pay bills. Modeling is a dream of mine, and I'm working hard just to get my own plane tickets. As soon as both my effort and network hit miraculous proportions, I'm going to be one very happy aspiring model. Not to mention respectful. I hate to read about some models being such asses to photographers, so let me be the guy to help right those wrongs. Its worth a shot (no pun intended). Aug 16 06 12:42 am Link Modeling is a passion of mine, but I had to come to the realization and rationalize that I am too short and 31 years old. I put in alot of TFP hours and now the print work/paid work is finally coming in. Last month I shot so much(all paid jobs) that I didn't get to see my kids allot. It was also getting stressfull having kids, having a business and modeling on weekends. I am backing off from all the photoshoot's offered because it will no longer be a passion if I can't enjoy it. Kisses, MEL Aug 16 06 12:50 am Link I've had that one happen before as well. Of course it says right on my profile that I'm a student and I can't pay models, so there's my answer. My biggest WTF moment came after I did a TFP shoot with a model and she liked my work so much that she asked me to shoot again but a different style. But then asked me to pay her! Yeah, my answer to that one was a double no. Aug 16 06 12:59 am Link I know there are respectful aspiring models out there that have knowledge about the industry but there seem to be way more clueless ones. These "models" are also the ones that dont have the real drive and passion.. they are the ones that want the fame. The ones that watched America's Next Top Model and now want to be a model. I dont mean to be rude but, it usually seems to be those girls who will not be models that are the ones demanding the money and claiming the "model" name. Modeling is harder than it looks.. REAL modeling anyway. Some do TFCD as a hobby or just cuz they want their pictures taken.. and that's fine. But then there are the aspring models who believe they can take a couple free shoots and expect their face on a billboard. The big named models out there didnt become house-hold names over night.. and they have the talent to get them where they are now. Aug 16 06 01:38 am Link i agree with you. but there is the same problem with photographers. Aug 16 06 03:22 am Link traviskraft wrote: I agree! It goes both ways.. Aug 16 06 04:40 am Link lll wrote: Actually - "wannabe" would be more fitting. "Aspiring" models would be more serious or at least better informed. Aug 16 06 04:48 am Link Tiffany Alonzo wrote: Too many models lack common sense and courtesy. They don't seem to understand modeling is a business. Therefore, it requires the tools and etiquette found in all successful endeavors. I've seen too many fade into oblivion by not understanding this concept. They aren't willing to put in the time and effort to learn the trade. Plus, I've never understood some "models", turning down offers for TFP, when all they have to show on their portfolio are cell phone quality pictures. Their either here for dating purposes or have an over inflated value of themselves! Aug 16 06 04:56 am Link Tiffany Alonzo wrote: Amen, Aug 16 06 05:14 am Link I am not that big and great--but i never cliam to be either. Something that bothers me about a rising population of girls wanting to model is that they do one or 2 tfcd/p shoots and like the orig post said-- they are ASKING to work with a photographer --and then telling them they have to pay. If your asking a photographer for the oportunity to work with them odds are they have more to offer you then the other way around. If a photographer is contacting you, and you arent a fan of thier style but they still wish to work with you- odds are that youhave something to offer them-and thus would be a more appropriete time to offer rates. But there is a right and wrong way to go about the rate thing as well. As for experiance, i think you can have less imgs,but higher quality and claim experiance. Upose to having 30483948 shoots and stil crud imgs. Its not about how prety you are . Iv seen less then ppl ppl be sucsessful. Know how to pose to flatter your shape-- know which angles work best in what lighting conditions. Learncommunication and the right ways to move your body when asked..That kindof thing i think , is how you know how experianced a person/model is Aug 16 06 05:22 am Link I've seen a few new girls work with me to build a port then think they are gonna walk into a top NY agency right away. They get discouraged when the big jobs don't come in and end up working at Wendy's or some such place. But as a shining example of just the opposite, I've been shooting a girl the last couple of months who knows what market she wants to reach (cute/sexy/glam....Maxim/FHM, etc) and insists on shooting in that style. She has pushed me to give her as much spare time as I could and she turned in a few pretty good shots. She has been patient and just let the pics build up. She trusted me to help her pic out the right combination of technically and aesthetically good photographs. Just this week we sat down and submitted her for a handful of small jobs. As luck has it, she picked up 3 jobs the first day. The nice thing is she thinks these small jobs are the best thing that has ever happened to her and knows it is where she has to start. She is more than content to work for free or almost free to get the exposure and good word-of-mouth, not to mention the experience. I'm pretty dang proud of her too! I wish all the new girls were as dedicated and patient as she is. Aug 16 06 05:31 am Link hmmm I am one of those if i get paid i get paid if i don't i don't as long as travel is reimbursed then I am happy. I have experience and I have been published I just chose not to brag about it but if people wish to know they can contact me and I will be happy to chat about it. But on the pther hand I KNOW I need a lot of work and direction but thats the joy of learning about this business.. I would not slate everyone chicka as you never know you might find that perfect shot but thats up to you ) I think there are too few of us about lol but I know a lot of "aspirers" INCLUDING photographers who expect to get paid by myself. I just had someone contact me today telling me all about his rates and services someone I have never met his profile was less than what I would expect to pay for someone (there are a fair few out there that a heck of a lot better) and he expected me to pay between £60 and £120 an hour. PLEASE I am blonde (occassionally) however I am not STOOOOOPID!! lol.. Aug 16 06 05:42 am Link On the same note, there are also photographers who will blow themselves up so much...the typical, "I'll make you look beautiful!" Simple thing, if the model thinks she's good enough to get paid, by god..let her advertise that she only accepts paid..it really has nothing to do with you. Yeah..I get mad when people say I have to have an agency to be a model...I'm freelance..call me an amature if you will because of this, but what I do is offer afordable rates rather than starting at 30/h. That way it covers gas, for those of us who don't have the cash to drive a hundred mile round trip for a TFP/CD. I believe my time and skill are worth at LEAST the gas to get there. Its not something to get yourself worked up over, its their career...let them run it. Aug 16 06 05:46 am Link I'm sympathetic to the complaint about models wanting to be paid by photographers that they have contacted for a shoot. My profile says I don't do that, and I get some of the same requests. However . . . In this thread I have seen two recurrent themes that need to be addressed (again): Study in Light wrote: 1. Models do not need to have a portfolio to go to NYC agency, nor do they need experience of any kind. If they have the right look, that is all the agency needs. This continuing idea that models need to build a portfolio or have experience to get an agency is simply false. Aug 16 06 07:38 am Link TXPhotog wrote: I agree with this one (and of course your first one) however I love this one. Aug 16 06 07:43 am Link *gasp!* Did someone just use the term Myspace? Hahaha. Sorry. I think that ranting about aspirants is pointless and useless. Aug 16 06 07:43 am Link All you need is drive, left turn signal,open door walk into agency ask to see person who handles new talent sit down and listen to them. Works almost every-time. Aug 16 06 07:59 am Link Alot of this is caused by what I call the "prettiest girl in school" syndrome. In their small little universe alot of girls are the "star attraction" and get an ego from that. I also think the internet has alot of girls mixed up because there is one heck of alot of paid work available to pretty young models if they will pose nude for one of a million XXX websites. They get the impression that it is customary to pay models with no experience in all areas of modeling because that one niche' has a voracious appetite for new talent and every just turned 18 model who signs on to a modeling listing site like this or omp or others, gets deluged with offers like that. So, in one sense the newbieâs are right, there is paid work available in vast quantity for models with no experience. The thing is it is "modeling" most of them wouldnât want to do. Aug 16 06 08:00 am Link Have to agree with you. Let me add that models that think they are going to make a living off of photographers are really dreaming. Clients pay, GWC pay but actual photographers don't pay to make pretty pictures that they will not make a dime off of. Photographers can help aspiring models but even that has its limits. Sure it goes both ways too. Aug 16 06 08:00 am Link I'll throw in my two cents, I do notice there are a fair share of "wannabe" photographers and Models alike. I always tell any models or wannabe models I work with that I am NOT a professional and I do it for the fun of creating an image. I dont intend to make money off of this and I do not intend to try to. I understand I havent put in the time or effort to accomplish this and probably never will. I love taking pictures and creating new images, I wouldnt think to charge anyone what with my limited experience, sameway I wouldnt think to PAY anyone to pose for me cause its not my business and frankly cannot afford to be paying anyone to pose nor could I justify it as I use the photos for personal enjoyment such as framing and displaying or putting in my photo album. I do feel that there are FAR too many women trying to be models that clearly just do not have what it takes, while I am never one to discourage anyone from their dreams, but sometimes reality needs to step in and intervene. I love basketball and would have loved to play in the NBA but at 5'9 it wasnt in the cards for me. I also think their are alot of very amateurish photographers on here, but to me the main difference is with practice you can get better at shooting photographs, you cannot get prettier by PRACTICING. I think part of the problem is alot of photographers or men in general are so quick to compliment ANY female that they see just because, so these females get big heads and think they should be models and even more so that they can CHARGE. Here in Miami there are alot of girls who have no business modeling yet they actually want to charge 100 an hour. Its hilarious to me. Reach for your dreams sure, just make sure the dream isnt so far out of your reach that you waste your life trying to get there and miss what may have been your other calling. god that was a ramble and a half. Aug 16 06 08:15 am Link Tiffany Alonzo wrote: I totally agree 200%!! THanks for mentioning that you also model, maybe some of the newbies will get a clue... Aug 16 06 08:18 am Link traviskraft wrote: Tell me about it! UGH! Aug 16 06 08:19 am Link Just to throw this out there, no one was born a professional anything, so you all had to start from the bottom at some point. Aug 16 06 08:27 am Link Maya L Reed wrote: this is agreed, but for instance...I love to play baseball and am pretty decent at it, I am not going to charge my friends to have me play baseball with them...or strangers for that matter. I understand some girls are lookin to make money and wont knock em for that. But I messaged some girl on here and said I was interested in shooting her for a concept I had. She said "sorry I only do paid modeling" without even seeing if I intended to pay her or not?" All her pics were straight up point and shoot, she looked good in them but its just like you have to have some ground to stand on before you start demanding things like MONEY! *shrugs* Aug 16 06 08:55 am Link Maya L Reed wrote: Very true. Here's my perspective: Aug 16 06 09:01 am Link photoassassin wrote: bingo. Sure its their right to charge for their time, same way its ours to laugh in their faces for doing so. Aug 16 06 09:16 am Link photoassassin wrote: Exactly, these wannabe models feel cell phone pics are enough to earn them paying jobs and qualify them as knowledgeable. How about learning your craft first? Find out which poses work best for you. Learn how to take direction. Learn to "feel" the light so you help the photographer get the image. Learn to interact with photographers, MUA's, assistants and other models. This doesn't come by genetically it comes with EXPERIENCE. I always tell people TFP is a great tool for aspiring models to learn the art of modeling. Aug 16 06 09:28 am Link PTH Photo wrote: photoassassin wrote: hahhahah yeah that is great too. Here is a story it may be mean, I know this girl who wants to run off to hollywood and become famous. I asked her if she plans on doing photoshoots of lingerie or bathing suits or risque stuff? She said no. I said save your money and your effort because there are alot of prettier more talented girls who will. Aug 16 06 09:40 am Link Tiffany Alonzo wrote: I LOVE THIS!!!!! ITS TRUE x10000 Aug 16 06 09:41 am Link just because you have a great face / body, gives little bearing to how photogenic you are Aug 16 06 09:44 am Link TrueHorror wrote: PTH Photo wrote: photoassassin wrote: hahhahah yeah that is great too. Here is a story it may be mean, I know this girl who wants to run off to hollywood and become famous. I asked her if she plans on doing photoshoots of lingerie or bathing suits or risque stuff? She said no. I said save your money and your effort because there are alot of prettier more talented girls who will. LOL, yep that's telling her like it is!! The truth often hurts! Aug 16 06 09:45 am Link Maya L Reed wrote: Exactly, According to Donald A. Norman, author and professor emeritus of cognitive science at University of California, San Diego; it takes at least 5,000 hours of practice to turn a novice into an expert. Aug 16 06 09:46 am Link I Model because I like to and its better than being a house wife. I would never contact a photographer and ask them to pay me. I ain't worth paying yet. I am working on myself to get to that point, but not there yet. I am still reletivly nobody and I admit it. (don't wanna be) but I am Aug 16 06 09:48 am Link I blame photographers - plain and simple. Digital cameras are inexpensive. Once the initial purchase is made, there's no further investment - no film, no developing, etc. Guys who used to join camera clubs to shoot girls now just offer $ to wannabes on the net to pose. The girls get some half-assed photos and some bucks. They have no concept or idea of what "being a model" means. They see no sense in paying a REALLY GOOD photographer for shots, or even shooting free with a really good photographer, because some half-assed picture taker who wouldn't know an f stop from a bus stop will pay her $150 to take her shirt off. Aug 16 06 09:49 am Link PTH Photo wrote: TrueHorror wrote: PTH Photo wrote: photoassassin wrote: hahhahah yeah that is great too. Here is a story it may be mean, I know this girl who wants to run off to hollywood and become famous. I asked her if she plans on doing photoshoots of lingerie or bathing suits or risque stuff? She said no. I said save your money and your effort because there are alot of prettier more talented girls who will. LOL, yep that's telling her like it is!! The truth often hurts! hahaha I totally messed up quoting you. Aug 16 06 09:59 am Link Ed Selby wrote: Makes Sense, but at the same time, Time is a valuable issue. I think with the digital advancments, Photographers are more overloaded with shoots and time is a precious commodity. I could be wrong, but it makes sense.. to me... wait that doesn't matter Aug 16 06 10:07 am Link Ben M wrote: Yes, Ben, that's the photographer's job to try and make someone photogenic. Rarely do people photograph better than they look. Only once have I had that happen. It was my very first test model. He was an OK looking guy but, wow, he could not take a bad picture. He looked better in his pictures than he did in person. And I couldn't take much credit for it since, I was just starting out and knew little about protrait photography. Aug 16 06 10:10 am Link |