Tiffany Alonzo wrote:
Why do models ask me to do a shoot and then ask me to PAY them?

I'm a working model.. I know how the industry works. Just because you've done a bunch of free portfolio shoots does NOT make you experienced.. especially if your port is crap.. no offense. REAL modeling work makes you experienced. By REAL work I mean paid exposure work that goes beyond modeling for websites, stock photography and promoting beer at your local club.

I'm not a bitch.. just tired of big-headed models that are snobby for nothing. Now I understand why photogs bitch so much about aspiring models.. sheesh.

Here's some advice to you aspiring/new models: Get portfolio images that will land you a job. That is the point of a portfolio! Don't just get a bunch of pics that you use more for your MySpace account than anything else. Know where your look will sell and go from there.

Once you've got a port go to an agency and/or network your ass off. No pay and little paying jobs are what get you the bigger ones. You have to start somewhere. Don't expect to be paid big when you have NO experience besides your portfolio and jobs Heather Marks would never do (ex. promoting beer). Do the respectful jobs that agencies would see as real work.

If any of you want anymore advice, feel free to message me. Other than that I'm just here to rant.

Unfortunately there are a growing number of new  models in this fair city that seem to feel that their good looks alone are enough to expect to be paid ( and they know little about such things as posing )Also  Some of these young newbie  models are being encouraged /misled by their amature photog/managers into believing that this is how  the industry works .......

traviskraft wrote:
i agree with you. but there is the same problem with photographers.

I agree! It goes both ways..

lll wrote:
Tiffany, that's why, I think it was Wolf, who coined the term "aspirants".  Don't call them "models", they don't deserve that hono(u)r.

Actually - "wannabe" would be more fitting.  "Aspiring" models would be more serious or at least better informed.

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Tiffany Alonzo wrote:
Why do models ask me to do a shoot and then ask me to PAY them?

I'm a working model.. I know how the industry works. Just because you've done a bunch of free portfolio shoots does NOT make you experienced.. especially if your port is crap.. no offense. REAL modeling work makes you experienced. By REAL work I mean paid exposure work that goes beyond modeling for websites, stock photography and promoting beer at your local club.

I'm not a bitch.. just tired of big-headed models that are snobby for nothing. Now I understand why photogs bitch so much about aspiring models.. sheesh.

Here's some advice to you aspiring/new models: Get portfolio images that will land you a job. That is the point of a portfolio! Don't just get a bunch of pics that you use more for your MySpace account than anything else. Know where your look will sell and go from there.

Once you've got a port go to an agency and/or network your ass off. No pay and little paying jobs are what get you the bigger ones. You have to start somewhere. Don't expect to be paid big when you have NO experience besides your portfolio and jobs Heather Marks would never do (ex. promoting beer). Do the respectful jobs that agencies would see as real work.

If any of you want anymore advice, feel free to message me. Other than that I'm just here to rant.

Too many models lack common sense and courtesy. They don't seem to understand modeling is a business. Therefore, it requires the tools and etiquette found in all successful endeavors. I've seen too many fade into oblivion by not understanding this concept. They aren't willing to put in the time and effort to learn the trade. Plus, I've never understood some "models", turning down offers for TFP, when all they have to show on their portfolio are cell phone quality pictures.  Their either here for dating purposes or have an over inflated value of themselves!

Tiffany Alonzo wrote:
Why do models ask me to do a shoot and then ask me to PAY them?

I'm a working model.. I know how the industry works. Just because you've done a bunch of free portfolio shoots does NOT make you experienced.. especially if your port is crap.. no offense. REAL modeling work makes you experienced. By REAL work I mean paid exposure work that goes beyond modeling for websites, stock photography and promoting beer at your local club.

I'm not a bitch.. just tired of big-headed models that are snobby for nothing. Now I understand why photogs bitch so much about aspiring models.. sheesh.

Here's some advice to you aspiring/new models: Get portfolio images that will land you a job. That is the point of a portfolio! Don't just get a bunch of pics that you use more for your MySpace account than anything else. Know where your look will sell and go from there.

Once you've got a port go to an agency and/or network your ass off. No pay and little paying jobs are what get you the bigger ones. You have to start somewhere. Don't expect to be paid big when you have NO experience besides your portfolio and jobs Heather Marks would never do (ex. promoting beer). Do the respectful jobs that agencies would see as real work.

If any of you want anymore advice, feel free to message me. Other than that I'm just here to rant.

Amen,
It kills me when I hear someone say how much your gonna pay me, and I just have this thought in my head like, "what have you done".  Myself, I'm grinding to get my foot in the door, doing TFP/CD, working events like the Super Bowl and the BET Awards, and alot of times I dont get not one penny, but I know in order to get status, you have to pay dues.  I think alot of times, these so called models think "Oh I look good so I should get paid",  even when you do offer a TFP/CD i've seen where they dont even show up.  Give me a person who is hungry like me and we can work magic, the ones who know you have to pay dues. 

If models like Tyra still pay for certain shoots, then that should say something to these new models.

Peace,
James

Study in Light wrote:
I've seen a few new girls work with me to build a port then think they are gonna walk into a top NY agency right away.  They get discouraged when the big jobs don't come in and end up working at Wendy's or some such place.

1.  Models do not need to have a portfolio to go to NYC agency, nor do they need experience of any kind.  If they have the right look, that is all the agency needs.  This continuing idea that models need to build a portfolio or have experience to get an agency is simply false.

2.  Although it does seem to be true that many Internet photographers require "experience" before they will hire a model, that is not generally true for mainstream commercial and fashion work.  Photographers at the level to get those assignments are able to get what they want out of anyone who has the right look.  If they can't, they don't get repeat business.

TXPhotog wrote:
2.  Although it does seem to be true that many Internet photographers require "experience" before they will hire a model, that is not generally true for mainstream commercial and fashion work.  Photographers at the level to get those assignments are able to get what they want out of anyone who has the right look.  If they can't, they don't get repeat business.

I agree with this one (and of course your first one) however I love this one.
I feel I get on better with Photographers when I warm up with them and forget how other photographers had wanted me to pose in the past everyone is different including models and photographers MUA's etc etc etc..

xx shelly xx

Tiffany Alonzo wrote:
Why do models ask me to do a shoot and then ask me to PAY them?

I'm a working model.. I know how the industry works. Just because you've done a bunch of free portfolio shoots does NOT make you experienced.. especially if your port is crap.. no offense. REAL modeling work makes you experienced. By REAL work I mean paid exposure work that goes beyond modeling for websites, stock photography and promoting beer at your local club.

I'm not a bitch.. just tired of big-headed models that are snobby for nothing. Now I understand why photogs bitch so much about aspiring models.. sheesh.

Here's some advice to you aspiring/new models: Get portfolio images that will land you a job. That is the point of a portfolio! Don't just get a bunch of pics that you use more for your MySpace account than anything else. Know where your look will sell and go from there.

Once you've got a port go to an agency and/or network your ass off. No pay and little paying jobs are what get you the bigger ones. You have to start somewhere. Don't expect to be paid big when you have NO experience besides your portfolio and jobs Heather Marks would never do (ex. promoting beer). Do the respectful jobs that agencies would see as real work.

If any of you want anymore advice, feel free to message me. Other than that I'm just here to rant.

I totally agree 200%!! THanks for mentioning that you also model, maybe some of the newbies will get a clue...

Rich

traviskraft wrote:
i agree with you. but there is the same problem with photographers.

Tell me about it! UGH!

Maya L Reed wrote:
Just to throw this out there, no one was born a professional anything, so you all had to start from the bottom at some point.

this is agreed, but for instance...I love to play baseball and am pretty decent at it, I am not going to charge my friends to have me play baseball with them...or strangers for that matter. I understand some girls are lookin to make money and wont knock em for that. But I messaged some girl on here and said I was interested in shooting her for a concept I had. She said "sorry I only do paid modeling" without even seeing if I intended to pay her or not?" All her pics were straight up point and shoot, she looked good in them but its just like you have to have some ground to stand on before you start demanding things like MONEY! *shrugs*

Maya L Reed wrote:
Just to throw this out there, no one was born a professional anything, so you all had to start from the bottom at some point.

Very true. Here's my perspective:

I had a model I worked with alot doing TFP since we started around the same time. We've both moved up: I'm shooting for magazines, she's got a subscription site. But I shut her down after she started sending models to me because I "work for free" even though she now expects to get paid. Total lack of respect.

As a side note, I hate models who have self-portrait camera phone pics on a profile listed as "paying jobs only"

photoassassin wrote:

Very true. Here's my perspective:

I had a model I worked with alot doing TFP since we started around the same time. We've both moved up: I'm shooting for magazines, she's got a subscription site. But I shut her down after she started sending models to me because I "work for free" even though she now expects to get paid. Total lack of respect.

As a side note, I hate models who have self-portrait camera phone pics on a profile listed as "paying jobs only"

bingo. Sure its their right to charge for their time, same way its ours to laugh in their faces for doing so.

photoassassin wrote:

Very true. Here's my perspective:

I had a model I worked with alot doing TFP since we started around the same time. We've both moved up: I'm shooting for magazines, she's got a subscription site. But I shut her down after she started sending models to me because I "work for free" even though she now expects to get paid. Total lack of respect.

As a side note, I hate models who have self-portrait camera phone pics on a profile listed as "paying jobs only"

Exactly, these wannabe models feel cell phone pics are enough to earn them paying jobs and qualify them as knowledgeable. How about learning your craft first?  Find out which poses work best for you. Learn how to take direction. Learn to "feel" the light so you help the photographer get the image. Learn to interact with photographers, MUA's, assistants and other models. This doesn't come by genetically it comes with EXPERIENCE.  I always tell people TFP is a great tool for aspiring models to learn the art of modeling.

I also find it hilarious when a new model on here, whether its male or female, post they will not do nudes. Who's asked you?!  Rather presumptuous, isn't it?

PTH Photo wrote:

photoassassin wrote:
I also find it hilarious when a new model on here, whether its male or female, post they will not do nudes. Who's asked you?!  Rather presumptuous, isn't it?

hahhahah yeah that is great too. Here is a story it may be mean, I know this girl who wants to run off to hollywood and become famous. I asked her if she plans on doing photoshoots of lingerie or bathing suits or risque stuff? She said no. I said save your money and your effort because there are alot of prettier more talented girls who will.

Tiffany Alonzo wrote:
Why do models ask me to do a shoot and then ask me to PAY them?

I'm a working model.. I know how the industry works. Just because you've done a bunch of free portfolio shoots does NOT make you experienced.. especially if your port is crap.. no offense. REAL modeling work makes you experienced. By REAL work I mean paid exposure work that goes beyond modeling for websites, stock photography and promoting beer at your local club.

I'm not a bitch.. just tired of big-headed models that are snobby for nothing. Now I understand why photogs bitch so much about aspiring models.. sheesh.

Here's some advice to you aspiring/new models: Get portfolio images that will land you a job. That is the point of a portfolio! Don't just get a bunch of pics that you use more for your MySpace account than anything else. Know where your look will sell and go from there.

Once you've got a port go to an agency and/or network your ass off. No pay and little paying jobs are what get you the bigger ones. You have to start somewhere. Don't expect to be paid big when you have NO experience besides your portfolio and jobs Heather Marks would never do (ex. promoting beer). Do the respectful jobs that agencies would see as real work.

If any of you want anymore advice, feel free to message me. Other than that I'm just here to rant.

I LOVE THIS!!!!! ITS TRUE x10000

TrueHorror wrote:

PTH Photo wrote:

photoassassin wrote:
I also find it hilarious when a new model on here, whether its male or female, post they will not do nudes. Who's asked you?!  Rather presumptuous, isn't it?

hahhahah yeah that is great too. Here is a story it may be mean, I know this girl who wants to run off to hollywood and become famous. I asked her if she plans on doing photoshoots of lingerie or bathing suits or risque stuff? She said no. I said save your money and your effort because there are alot of prettier more talented girls who will.

LOL, yep that's telling her like it is!!  The truth often hurts!

Maya L Reed wrote:
Just to throw this out there, no one was born a professional anything, so you all had to start from the bottom at some point.

Exactly, According to Donald A. Norman, author and professor emeritus of cognitive science at University of California, San Diego; it takes at least 5,000 hours of practice to turn a novice into an expert.

5,000 (!)

PTH Photo wrote:

TrueHorror wrote:

PTH Photo wrote:

photoassassin wrote:
I also find it hilarious when a new model on here, whether its male or female, post they will not do nudes. Who's asked you?!  Rather presumptuous, isn't it?

hahhahah yeah that is great too. Here is a story it may be mean, I know this girl who wants to run off to hollywood and become famous. I asked her if she plans on doing photoshoots of lingerie or bathing suits or risque stuff? She said no. I said save your money and your effort because there are alot of prettier more talented girls who will.

LOL, yep that's telling her like it is!!  The truth often hurts!

hahaha I totally messed up quoting you.

Ed Selby wrote:
I blame photographers - plain and simple.

Digital cameras are inexpensive. Once the initial purchase is made, there's no further investment - no film, no developing, etc. Guys who used to join camera clubs to shoot  girls now just offer $ to wannabes on the net to pose. The girls get some half-assed photos and some bucks. They have no concept or idea of what "being a model" means. They see no sense in paying a REALLY GOOD photographer for shots, or even shooting free with a really good photographer, because some half-assed picture taker who wouldn't know an f stop from a bus stop will pay her $150 to take her shirt off.

Makes Sense, but at the same time, Time is a valuable issue. I think with the digital advancments, Photographers are more overloaded with shoots and time is a precious commodity. I could be wrong, but it makes sense.. to me... wait that doesn't matter

Ben M wrote:
just because you have a great face / body, gives little bearing to how photogenic you are

Yes, Ben, that's the photographer's job to try and make someone photogenic. Rarely do people photograph better than they look. Only once have I had that happen. It was my very first test model. He was an OK looking guy but, wow, he could not take a bad picture. He looked better in his pictures than he did in person. And I couldn't take much credit for it since, I was just starting out and knew little about protrait photography. 

Believe it or not, it's often a challenge to make a good looking person look good on a 2-D print!