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Models editing your work and ruining the image
Maybe this has been discussed already, if not I would like to hear your thoughts. Or share the link for the past thread. I am no way a photoshop professional, but I can handle myself when it comes to minor post processing. I have noticed recently, that a couple of the people I have worked with end up making adjustments to the images I provide, and what the end result is shameful. The "adjustments" they make either blows out the image, or they make their own color correction, and they end up altering their skin to purple or similar. It is obvious that they are using some low grade imaging software. I actually feel embarassed that my name are on the pics now, since I feel my abilities are being showcased two-fold. The image composition and lighting and also the post processing. Does anyone mention this to models ahead of time? Shall I include a stipulation in the model release form? I really don't think I will work with these people again, but would you say something or just let it be? Thankyou and I would like hear from everyone, David Aug 08 06 06:43 pm Link Legally, the model can't copy your work unless you give her permission to do so nor can she alter the work. So, assuming you do give her permission to copy your work, it would be smart to tell her that they aren't to be altered when she reproduces them. The model release is something that the model signs and gives to you and which conveys certain rights to you. It has nothing to do with copyright. If you want a written agreement with your model regarding altering your work, give her a "grant of rights" document that gives her permission to reproduce your work. The grant of rights would list how long the model may reproduce the images, in what part of the world and in what language (of the publication) they may be reproduced, where they may be published (if at all), whether your name and copyright notice have to be listed when the work is published, etc. In the grant of rights you can also place restrictions on how the image can be modified (if at all) before it is published. Both the model and the photographer sign the grant of rights and both receive a copy of it. Aug 08 06 07:14 pm Link Let me state it a bit more clearly. No F'n way should anyone be altering your images without your permission. Aug 08 06 07:18 pm Link I have experienced that problem with a few models that I sent a few images to so they could post them on their portfolio.Same thing:They incorrectly re -cropped them,turned a beautiful color image into a dreary dull black/white one.I am embarassed to have my name attached to them now.I just recently amended my model release to address this specific issue,NO changes with any images without prior SPECIFIC authorization in writing ! Period.If anyone is interested in it,I can attach the new release to an email message. Aug 08 06 07:24 pm Link I specifically forbid anyone to edit my pictures. I tell models if they want an image edited for some purpose or the other please ask me and I will oblige. Aug 08 06 07:37 pm Link Artistic Impressions wrote: Ditto... I had one particularly offensive offender who thought she was a PhotoShop whiz, and wound up ruining the images, turning them into plasticized cartoons of the originals. After extensive arguing with her, I insisted she either pull those images or amend the subtext to say the original was by me, and the edit was by her. Aug 08 06 07:43 pm Link Thanks for sharing your stories. This recent event was very disturbing to me. These images are our work. I will email you two, to see if you can share what you have added to stipulate prohibiting altering and editing. I am leaning towards having to add that to my release form. Aug 08 06 07:48 pm Link Even though it should be in your release (if you have one), make sure you point it out to them verbally that you do not allow this to happen to your images. If you tell them to their face AND it's in writing, you can easily get them to stop by just telling them about the agreement again. If they don't, a simple cease&desist letter should stop them. -PKD Aug 08 06 07:51 pm Link whoops Aug 08 06 08:09 pm Link OK.... here's the relevant line I have added to my release: I understand that I (the model) do not have the right to alter, manipulate, or distort the images provided to me, and that I am expressly prohibited from using any electronic software for this purpose. thoughts and feedback welcome Aug 08 06 08:10 pm Link I have a no cropping/editing clause in my release too and I will be speaking to a model about this very issue in the next day or so. I'm happy to do a re-edit or re-crop on their behalf and (rarely) where a clause is introduced to allow them to do their own editing I also state that I must have approval before they go out on the web. Terry Aug 08 06 08:13 pm Link When each of you says you have a no alteration clause in your release, I presume what you really mean is that you have a single document which is both a release for the model to execute and a license/usage agreement where you grant specific usage rights to the model. It is totally appropriate in the license/usage agereement part of the document for you to place a restriction reminding the models that you are granting them no rights to modify the original image or create a derrivative work. The release itself has nothing to do with usage. The release is a consent by the model permitting you to use her likeness. The license/usage agreement covers the model's rights to use the images you provide to her. Putting it another way, in the release, the model gives you permisison to use her likeness, in the license you grant to her permission to use the images in specific ways. They are two separate agreements which may be contained in a single document. Aug 08 06 08:20 pm Link I always let the photographer know before I use an image and give him a chance to edit it. I don't want a photographer's name on an image he is unhappy with. It's just the right thing to do. If you ask a model ahead of time, you could be able to tell if she would do it or not, and avoid working with someone that you have any reason to think would do such a rude thing. Of course add it in the release, why not, it's your work too and you deserve to have it as you want it. Aug 08 06 08:23 pm Link I rarely trust photographers with the post-processing- a lot don't know how to handle the programs. Both of these pictures are posted publicly here on MM- one is mine, the other is the photographer's. Which would you prefer?   Aug 08 06 08:52 pm Link Artistic Impressions wrote: I am interested. My email is april @ flawedperfectionist.com. Aug 08 06 08:58 pm Link I HATE what some models do with my pix, but I guess I shoot under a different agreement than the rest of you. I do what I call an exchange shoot. I give the model a full copy of images to do with as she pleases and I use them how I please. If she screws them up, I ask she doesn't put my name on them. I feel the model "owns" her set of pix and I "own" my set. I consider an exchange shoot a true exchange of rights, in full, and unconditional. If you don't want to have the model messing with the pix, pay her for the shoot and don't give her the pix...simple as that... Aug 08 06 08:59 pm Link Revel wrote: when you have the right to change a photograph you can; no one gives a rats butt about showing photoshop skills if you dont have the right. Aug 08 06 09:05 pm Link I do have the right. Don't be a jackass. It's something I negotiate with the photographers every time before a shoot. Aug 08 06 09:12 pm Link Revel wrote: pompous boastful statement ! Aug 08 06 09:18 pm Link It depends on the agreements made, and whats in a release although as a serious art student Im pretty offended you assume all models cant use photoshop and all photogs can. (in basics) Aug 08 06 09:18 pm Link I have a hard time giving raw files to models. *covers head with arms to protect myself* It's just cuz some models will just post the files withiout sizing them down and due to some compression they end up looking bad. I know some models know how to manipulate the files to make them look decent, but the models I have worked with just don't and it makes me look like I don't know what I'm doing. Aug 08 06 09:22 pm Link Revel wrote: That all depends on what kind of look you are going for....! one has a bit of a glam look with warm skin tones ,the other more goth...I'm guessing that's your edit....If models are looking for a particular style ,then shoot with Photogs that fit what you are looking for.... Aug 08 06 09:23 pm Link Tikal wrote: Amen. Aug 08 06 09:23 pm Link Tikal wrote: It really isn't a question of who can use Photoshop and who can't. It is really an issue of what rights a photographer grants to a model. You are absolutely right, you might be better with Photoshop than many of the photographers you work with. Aug 08 06 09:24 pm Link It isn't in my model release, but it is in the license agreement I give out with the cd describing what the model can and cannot do with the images. I also tell models at the shoot that if they want modifications to any of the photos they receive to let me do it. Aug 08 06 09:26 pm Link My initial intention for this thread was not to say that all models are not knowledgeable with post processing of images, or that to say yes some photographers could probably sharpen their editing skills. I know we are all always learning something new everyday. My thought was that I had a finished work and that person went and made adjustments to the image AND cropped out my name (maybe that was a good thingâ¦ha ha). That felt and seemed wrong to me. Well I am not mad, since I feel itâs a lessoned learned. Now I know to stipulate in the release form or as Alan and Roger have pointed out to have a whole another licensing form drafted, and to also state it verbally at the time of the shoot. I figured others had been in the situation once or twice, so I thought it would be good to discuss it amongst each others. Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts. By the way here is what I was talking about, Image they posted:  Aug 08 06 11:12 pm Link yup.. when that happens it reminds me to my figure drawing professor in college when he woudl come with a red marker and 'correct' the incorrect lines on the study.. Aug 08 06 11:19 pm Link why cant we all just get along???  Aug 08 06 11:36 pm Link What this conversation is dancing around is whether or not an image should even be Photoshopped... I was hired recently to shoot a model for her Maxim submission. We went through all of the shots taken with studio lighting and we didn't touch a single one of them, ready to use as shot. When I started in this business you shot a chrome, sent it to the publisher, and it went on a magazine page, no touchup...you either shot it right or you missed the sale. With the advent of digital cameras and Photoshop you don't even know what was shot because all you generally see is a highly Photoshopped image like the one in my Avatar now. The model was fine with all of the pix in that set, but we "tweaked" some for grins. Anyway, back to the topic, I work under a more liberal policy apparently than the current generation of photographers. Maybe I am alone, but I give the model her set of hi res pix and that is my agreement with them. I don't hold pix back, I don't give them shrunk versions, I don't force them to use my logo when they have equal rights, and I don't restrict their creativity with the pix. Maybe I am the lone stranger when it comes to being "fair" to the models and giving them equal value for their time. Aug 08 06 11:44 pm Link i like to edit photos. if you dont like them, ask me not to use them. i wont post until i know they agree... but i wont ever edit someones work that knows what they are doing. sorry to say, but MANY on this site, dont. Aug 08 06 11:49 pm Link Just for sake of making a point, I just checked my portfolio on here. Of twenty pix posted, only 3 have seen Photoshop. It is obvious they are Photoshopped. Most of the others are scans from the negs or slides or direct from camera digitals. The Photoshopped images are the last ones I posted and as I said, for some testing. There are many great photos on MM, but how many are "raw"? Maybe the industry needs a "real seal" before we have our pix pulled by Reuters. Aug 08 06 11:50 pm Link Both images could be better. Her's is waaaay washed out. She either tweaked the brightness or screwed with a curves layer. Her nose is practically off the map. She screwed it up bad. The blacks on her dress look are fuzzy and weird on the edges. It lacks contrast and is flat. There is only one thing that her's gained... the texture in the hair. I would suggest a curves layer, inverting it, and then painting the hair in with a brush, regaining the texture and highlights. Her hair is either too contrasty or overly saturated, or slightly under exposed (depending on what it was raw). The blacks/darks in the hair are too much even on my overly bright monitor. You own the image so she should really honor you in that respect. If she didn't like something about the image, she should first come to you and ask you to make the adjustments she wants. If you can't do it, then she should ask for permission, send you a copy of the final version and get your approval on it. When we all work together the possibilities are unlimited! Renee n81v wrote: Aug 09 06 12:08 am Link Do you know that once you get out into the center of our galaxy, the Sun is tiny speck and the entire earth is completely invisible. It's a big internet. A model took my photos from a tfcd and posted them on her site. The images look terrible. But you know what, I'm happy she liked them. And in the long run, I doubt I'll lose work because I made sure to unlink from them so none of the prospective models or clients evaluating my ports will probably ever see it. And remember, we're invisible. Aug 09 06 01:53 am Link As a model, I can see why they do do this...sometimes the photographers don't acheive the tone you'd like in the picture, although in my case I specifically ask the photographers if they would mind if I did some work on the ones that they did not edit, such as cropping..changing to black and white or sepia or *rarely* adjusting colours. Although I always post the original as well, though I am loathe to do this with an image a photographer has sometimes worked hours on in the program, although I use the same program, my skills at it aren't up to par to most, though I do enjoy playing around with them...not to the major extent of whiting out my face. Thats just my view on this..that is is the models picture as well, perhaps suggest that they put upon the image that it was edited by them..and not the photographer. I always place the original photographers name, as well as if I edited it...that I did the editing, and not the photographer. I believe anyone can look at an image, even if it is badly coloured and see that the base of the image is good, and thus judge the photographer on that. To each thier own, and I understand your problem entirely. Thanks! Samantha-Lynne Atlanta,GA Aug 09 06 02:04 am Link n81v wrote: Wow. That second is a bit washed out... just a bit. LOL Aug 09 06 02:13 am Link The point should be to come to a solution that your both comfortable with. The model should have some rights when it comes to the images, but photographers should definetly recieve credit for their work, if you don't like it ask them to adjust the images, they should be willing to help or either just don't post them! Aug 09 06 02:14 am Link Samantha-Lynne wrote: Samantha, Aug 09 06 02:23 am Link Lew of Vividere wrote: THANK YOU Aug 09 06 02:29 am Link Abdiel Urcullu Photo wrote: Sooooooooo been there....my teacher was such an ass...im like YOU cant change the way I draw...i have my own style.... Aug 09 06 02:36 am Link And my take on this...im a model/photographer....for one...MOST photogs that ive worked with has seen and acknowledged my work as a photographer...i am a trained graphic designer with the skills and training i have received extensively...and most other times ive learned on my own...as far as letting me process their images of me...some are cool with it, because they know that i am capable of handling of editing my images...some like it because they have other work to do and helps in their workload and honestly i love editing images...most of them on my port are edited by me...the ones youll have to guess  I build a trust factor with the photographer i work with...and in return everyone is happy...some photographers are somewhat curious to see what you can do with an image....then there are some that are picky and like to keep a certain style which is cool and i respect that....to each their own Aug 09 06 02:42 am Link |
