Posted by Norris Carden: 
No shows ... that's the majority I've dealt with from models on ANOTHER modeling place. Hopefully the ones who have taken the time to come and participate here won't be like that.

Now here's a question ... would you TAG a model on MM for being a no show?

Oh please do ! lol

Posted by Norris Carden: 
No shows ... that's the majority I've dealt with from models on ANOTHER modeling place. Hopefully the ones who have taken the time to come and participate here won't be like that.

Now here's a question ... would you TAG a model on MM for being a no show?

Thats what the delete button is for!!

Posted by Norris Carden: 
Now here's a question ... would you TAG a model on MM for being a no show?

Why waste the time? ... "Tags" have a delete. So you "Tag" the model or photographer with a less than complimentary comment ... it's gone the next time they check their listing here.

"They'll contact him for a TFP shoot, then when the time nears they won't respond to his e-mails or calls."

I thought that particular form of 'flakiness' was only limited to all of California and the Las Vegas area (where the 'me...me...me' attitude prevails).

During the recent past, a few models (and other photographers) contacted me requesting my services.  I replied, and never heard from them again.

Now I may not be the BEST photographer around, but I ain't that bad either!  I also don't make any sensationalized claims of fame and fortune... and I don't shoot any nudity (or even bring up the subject) unless the model requests it. 

Therefore I can safely say that my replies to their requests isn't the thing that is scaring them away.

Normally, shortly after I realized that my reply has been ignored, I'll often see the same model posting 'new' (but poorly shot) naked photos of herself taken by some 'guy with camera'.  (Ironically, often the same models that are 'guilty as charged' also have a statement in their portfolio that they don't do nudity).

I originally thought that this scenario was an exception to the rule, but lately I've seen several models do the same thing... so now I believe that it has become the norm!

When I worked in TV production and charged big bucks for time spent (whether the client showed up or not), you can be sure that the client would ALWAYS be on time, or make dilligent effort to contact us if there were any scheduling changes.

Maybe the fact that so many people are GIVING away their time (TFP, TFCD... myself included once in awhile) gives the impression that the photographers time isn't worth anything, so why bother responding to 'em.

The funny / sad part is that model probably will never understand what they end up missing.  Even if I never end up working with a model, I will often refer them to other photographers or businesses that are coming to the area.  Of course, I will only refer the people that have acted in a professional manner to start with.

Posted by McKenzie:
    To end this posting, I would just like to make one last comment.  I think serious photographer and serious models have to communicate very well with each other and even before working together.  From phone conversations, emails and other contacts, you will then be able to get a feel of the person you may be working with and probably get a vibe from it.  If communication is great, then it could be good.  If not, or you have something telling you that you are not sure about this one....take it as that, and follow the instinct.  More than anything, your instinct will be right. 

McKenzie 

I completely agree, communication is the single most important factor in making sure there are no misunderstandings, no confusion, and no problems related to what one person was thinking as opposed to the other.

Matt
Deputy Admin

Posted by Jim Karr: 
OneModelFlake was good for that.. Oh.. I mean, OneModelPlace..

I once was up in Madison waiting and waiting for a model to show and nothing.  No phone call, no email, nothing.   She said she had to work an hour later and knew I had nobody shooting after her, so she could had come.  None the less, her profile is still filled with self-taken crap images.  Oh well.

Again, not all models are like that....and your right, she could of still shown up or at least made a phone call.  It is more her loss than yours.  I would just move on, but use better communication techniques the next time around. 

McKenzie

Posted by Jeri: 
Flakey "models" are the bane of professionals' existence. I don't mean professional by rank nessecarily, but by behavior.

I'll be the first to admit I can get a little lagged on responding to emails- but I devised a system of organization to improve that, and always make a point to return emails at some point. I've never not shown, and if I'm even a little late I'm always sure to call. I always make a point to be sure all is clear before a shoot and that I'm prepared as such. It is astounding to me, when I talk to photographers, how many "models" do not.

For what it's worth, I think that this is a closer knit group- and therefore, less likely to contain people that are going to act in an unprofessional manner. 

I wish they were ALL like you!

They are the bane of an amateur's existance as well.  Just because I am not doing this for a living, does not mean I appreciate having my time wasted any more that the wonderful professionals on this site. 

I work very hard to give 100% for the models who pose for me. 

I understand when a model cancels on me to get a PAID gig.  All I ask is enough warning to find a replacement. 

A phone call or an e-mail is not that much to ask.

Is it ???

Posted by Norris Carden: 
No shows ... that's the majority I've dealt with from models on ANOTHER modeling place. Hopefully the ones who have taken the time to come and participate here won't be like that.

Now here's a question ... would you TAG a model on MM for being a no show?

Posted by McKenzie: 
  This is in the response to the models who do no shows, cancels at last minutes or don't even call.  I have NEVER not shown up at a photography place whether it was paid OR TFP, I have only been late 2 times, one time 5 minutes, the other 30 minutes (from being out of town, and wrong directions given) which photographer totally understood, and I had called them while on the road to let them know I was lost and to help me get back on track.  I return my emails and all messages on a daily basis as I get them, unless I am out of town, then they are dealt with as soon as I return.  Photographers need to start weeding out the models who really don't care about their career and who just do it to say they do it.  Because of models like that, it has given people who take this very seriously and go at this aggressively a bad name, well until the person has worked with me then they see how I am.  I have worked with most people more than once because they knew they were not wasting time with me.  Not ALL models do this immature bit of not showing up etc. etc.  But again, it is models like that, which makes it hard to get paid work because a photographer wants to do TFP first because he/she has been burnt so many times from a non-serious model.  There is no reason for the no-shows.  And if, there is a cancellation, it is somewhat understandable if it is a family matter or something beyond control, but the photographer should be notified in a timely manner.  But, since we are on the subject of models...and some models standing people up, and not doing their part like they should...which again, I do believe is VERY wrong and it does upset me.  I want to also talk about some photographers.

   Photographers...when working with a model should know a models limits before working with her.  Not only that, but when give the opportunity to work with him/her they should not push issues that are beyond the limits set by the models.  There are so many photographers out there that think they are a photographer because they have a camera. There are also photographers out there that do the same thing....not returning calls etc.  So it isn't limited to just models.  Eventhough, I myself have not had that experience yet (knock on wood) because I am very picky with whom I work with, and I talk with them way before I work with them, I think it helps. 

    To end this posting, I would just like to make one last comment.  I think serious photographer and serious models have to communicate very well with each other and even before working together.  From phone conversations, emails and other contacts, you will then be able to get a feel of the person you may be working with and probably get a vibe from it.  If communication is great, then it could be good.  If not, or you have something telling you that you are not sure about this one....take it as that, and follow the instinct.  More than anything, your instinct will be right. 

McKenzie 

Posted by Chanti: 
I must be really bored.. because I post a whole lot!
  My advice to the photographers is this.  During the process of schelduling a shoot, tell the model that if you do not talk to her atleast once, or twice *whatever you prefer* before the shoot,   that the shoot will automatically be cancelled.  I make sure to contact photographers usually a few days before the shoot and then the day before just to make sure. If you dont hear anything, cancel it and make other plans. If a model gripes about it, its her own fault. There are a million ways to get in touch with someone.  A damn text message could suffice.  Usually if a model just ignores ur ims or phone calls, it means shes not interested but not mature enough to just answer the phone or emails and let you know that.  A lot of amateur models dont know how to go about professionally cancelling a shoot.

Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *: 
How about models who drink so much before the shoot that they end up throwing up in the bathroom and end up passed out on the bed in lingerie, eh?  8X

Posted by McKenzie: 

Posted by Jim Karr: 
OneModelFlake was good for that.. Oh.. I mean, OneModelPlace..

I once was up in Madison waiting and waiting for a model to show and nothing.  No phone call, no email, nothing.   She said she had to work an hour later and knew I had nobody shooting after her, so she could had come.  None the less, her profile is still filled with self-taken crap images.  Oh well.

Again, not all models are like that....and your right, she could of still shown up or at least made a phone call.  It is more her loss than yours.  I would just move on, but use better communication techniques the next time around. 

McKenzie

McKenzie-

    Dunno how I could had communicated any better.  She had BOTH my cell phone numbers, the phone # for the location I was shooting at, and my email address which I had access to all night long.  I tried calling and got voicemail every time I called, even after she supposedly got off work.  I don't understand how anyone can communicate better than that?  When we originally setup the shoot, she mentioned nothing about working that night either.

Posted by Scott Johnson: 
That must be a new personal best for you!

And then they say sorry when they wake up and ask if they could shoot with them the next day!  WTF?!  lol

Well good thing I usually shoot more than 1 model if I'm doing an indoor shoot.

Oh yeah, why is that a new personal best for me?

Posted by Scott Johnson: 

I think that someone else might have posted about this. If so, I'm sorry but...

Why is it that models contact you for a shoot, schedule the shoot and then when you try and e-mail them or call to confirm the date as it it gets closer,they never HAVE THE PROFESSIONAL COURTESY TO E-MAIL OR CALL BACK????? If there is one way to get a bad reputation fast, that's the way. Now I'm left wondering if I should just make other plans.

For the love of god if there are any models that are reading this please don't be like this person. Enough said!!!!!

Posted by Jim Karr: 

Posted by McKenzie: 

Posted by Jim Karr: 
OneModelFlake was good for that.. Oh.. I mean, OneModelPlace..

I once was up in Madison waiting and waiting for a model to show and nothing.  No phone call, no email, nothing.   She said she had to work an hour later and knew I had nobody shooting after her, so she could had come.  None the less, her profile is still filled with self-taken crap images.  Oh well.

Again, not all models are like that....and your right, she could of still shown up or at least made a phone call.  It is more her loss than yours.  I would just move on, but use better communication techniques the next time around. 

McKenzie

McKenzie-

    Dunno how I could had communicated any better.  She had BOTH my cell phone numbers, the phone # for the location I was shooting at, and my email address which I had access to all night long.  I tried calling and got voicemail every time I called, even after she supposedly got off work.  I don't understand how anyone can communicate better than that?  When we originally setup the shoot, she mentioned nothing about working that night either.

Jim, I appreciate your honesty, and in this case, it was probably not your fault, but there are times when models and photographers are setting up shoots and not all information, details and things like that are layed out on the table.  I try to communicate with the people I am going to work with more than once on the phone, and probably a hand full of times through email if not more.  I ask lots of questions as a model, and I think that a photographer should do the same.  As models check out photographer references, I think photographers should check out model references. 

   I have heard from photographers before about emailing a model and a model responding with a 1-2 sentence response, right there, tells you that they are probably not that interested.  Short and to the point.  I guess I take things differently, maybe I am just different.  But to me, communication is a big thing for me, and if a photographer can't communicate well with me, I don't work with him....BUT I don't ignore him either, I will tell him I am not interested in working with him because questions are not answered...I am just giving an example here.  I am straight, honest and to the point, but in a professional manner and I respect all of whom I talk to and I expect the same.  Photographers are going to run into bad models who are not serious, and there will be models who run into bad photographers...again not all photographers are like that either.  I think you will have that with every business.  You just have to be pickier with who you work with, learn to know what to look for when talking, talk to them multiple times before actually working with them.  Again, that is just my opinion. 

McKenzie

Posted by * Visual Mindscapes *: 

Posted by Scott Johnson: 
That must be a new personal best for you!

And then they say sorry when they wake up and ask if they could shoot with them the next day!  WTF?!  lol

Well good thing I usually shoot more than 1 model if I'm doing an indoor shoot.

Oh yeah, why is that a new personal best for me?

Posted by theda: 
I'll tell you why models do it if you tell me why photographers do it.

If you don't have a time and date confirmed, go on with your life and book your time like the model in question never existed. Then all you'll have to worry about are last minute canellations an no-shows... and I guess that's not a great improvement. But that's people for you.

Posted by Scott Johnson: 

I think that someone else might have posted about this. If so, I'm sorry but...

Why is it that models contact you for a shoot, schedule the shoot and then when you try and e-mail them or call to confirm the date as it it gets closer,they never HAVE THE PROFESSIONAL COURTESY TO E-MAIL OR CALL BACK????? If there is one way to get a bad reputation fast, that's the way. Now I'm left wondering if I should just make other plans.

For the love of god if there are any models that are reading this please don't be like this person. Enough said!!!!!

Posted by theda: 
I'll tell you why models do it if you tell me why photographers do it.

If you don't have a time and date confirmed, go on with your life and book your time like the model in question never existed.

In all the years I've been shooting, I can only recall cancelling on ONE shoot.

And I gave the model about a 1 week notice. (Happened about a year ago when I wrecked my motorcycle and gimped my ankle and was on crutches for 2 weeks.)

Looking back, I should have toughed-it-out and shot anyway. But that, as far as I can recall, is the only shoot I ever cancelled.

Posted by McKenzie: 
  This is in the response to the models who do no shows, cancels at last minutes or don't even call.  I have NEVER not shown up at a photography place whether it was paid OR TFP, I have only been late 2 times, one time 5 minutes, the other 30 minutes (from being out of town, and wrong directions given) which photographer totally understood, and I had called them while on the road to let them know I was lost and to help me get back on track.  I return my emails and all messages on a daily basis as I get them, unless I am out of town, then they are dealt with as soon as I return.  Photographers need to start weeding out the models who really don't care about their career and who just do it to say they do it.  Because of models like that, it has given people who take this very seriously and go at this aggressively a bad name, well until the person has worked with me then they see how I am.  I have worked with most people more than once because they knew they were not wasting time with me.  Not ALL models do this immature bit of not showing up etc. etc.  But again, it is models like that, which makes it hard to get paid work because a photographer wants to do TFP first because he/she has been burnt so many times from a non-serious model.  There is no reason for the no-shows.  And if, there is a cancellation, it is somewhat understandable if it is a family matter or something beyond control, but the photographer should be notified in a timely manner.  But, since we are on the subject of models...and some models standing people up, and not doing their part like they should...which again, I do believe is VERY wrong and it does upset me.  I want to also talk about some photographers.

   Photographers...when working with a model should know a models limits before working with her.  Not only that, but when give the opportunity to work with him/her they should not push issues that are beyond the limits set by the models.  There are so many photographers out there that think they are a photographer because they have a camera. There are also photographers out there that do the same thing....not returning calls etc.  So it isn't limited to just models.  Eventhough, I myself have not had that experience yet (knock on wood) because I am very picky with whom I work with, and I talk with them way before I work with them, I think it helps. 

    To end this posting, I would just like to make one last comment.  I think serious photographer and serious models have to communicate very well with each other and even before working together.  From phone conversations, emails and other contacts, you will then be able to get a feel of the person you may be working with and probably get a vibe from it.  If communication is great, then it could be good.  If not, or you have something telling you that you are not sure about this one....take it as that, and follow the instinct.  More than anything, your instinct will be right. 

McKenzie 

Posted by Scott Johnson: 
Why is it that models contact you for a shoot, schedule the shoot and then when you try and e-mail them or call to confirm the date as it it gets closer,they never HAVE THE PROFESSIONAL COURTESY TO E-MAIL OR CALL BACK????? 

Hence the reason when there is money on the line by a client, professionals are hired for the job.  Imagine a commercial client, in example, sitting in a rented studio with a high dollar photographer, art director, makeup artist, stylist, and assistants all sitting idle.  As I said to my wife when I banned her from shopping Walmart:  "You get what you pay for."

Posted by EricMuss-Barnes: 

Posted by theda: 
I'll tell you why models do it if you tell me why photographers do it.

If you don't have a time and date confirmed, go on with your life and book your time like the model in question never existed.

In all the years I've been shooting, I can only recall cancelling on ONE shoot.

And I gave the model about a 1 week notice. (Happened about a year ago when I wrecked my motorcycle and gimped my ankle and was on crutches for 2 weeks.)

Looking back, I should have toughed-it-out and shot anyway. But that, as far as I can recall, is the only shoot I ever cancelled.

Hey, wait was that shoot with me or am I thinking of someone else?

Posted by Miss Conduct: 

Posted by EricMuss-Barnes: 
In all the years I've been shooting, I can only recall cancelling on ONE shoot.

And I gave the model about a 1 week notice. (Happened about a year ago when I wrecked my motorcycle and gimped my ankle and was on crutches for 2 weeks.)

Looking back, I should have toughed-it-out and shot anyway. But that, as far as I can recall, is the only shoot I ever cancelled.

Hey, wait was that shoot with me or am I thinking of someone else?

Nope. We've never scheduled anything. We've talked about shooting together a lot. But we've never set any solid date or time for each other.

And we should. Because we are both pretty freakin' awesome.

;-)

Nope. We've never scheduled anything. We've talked about shooting together a lot. But we've never set any solid date or time for each other.

And we should. Because we are both pretty freakin' awesome.

;-)

Well then, you just tell me "where and when" and I'm there!