Posted by Leila: 
To me the whole point of tfp is so both people can benifit and add images to there portfolio.

Seriously, is that what you expect?  It is afterall, Time For Practice.

A solid portfolio is built from actual work, not a get-together barter session.

Posted by Leila: 
I'm not sure how many models have experienced this but...

I can understand your disappointment. IMO, the newbee photog could've done more preparing prior to you showing up. So, don't take this experience and the new guy, as representative of what's to be expected all the time. It certainly wasn't that way when I did my first shoot with a live model. I had everything set up and my plan of action in my head and on paper and while waiting for the model to arrive, I kept reviewing the planned shots (poses/props/location in the immediate area) and camera settings I wanted to try.

Word to the beginning photographers, always treat your first set of shoots as if you were going to do a presentation with some high level corporate executive. Have your equipment set up and ready to go. Have a plan of shots and settings written on a worksheet. Also, it doesn't hurt to go over your worksheet with the model you're working with.

A little discipline is all it takes. The key thing is to set a level of expectation. Telling the model that you're a beginning photographer does not hurt at all.

Posted by area291: 

Posted by Leila: 
To me the whole point of tfp is so both people can benifit and add images to there portfolio.

Seriously, is that what you expect?  It is afterall, Time For Practice.

A solid portfolio is built from actual work, not a get-together barter session.

Hmmmm....do I detect a bit of elitism here?  What do you mean by this?  I've been a photographer for 35 years working both for fun and as a professional (I've been published on occasion too).  I do a lot of tfp with models.  I totally disagree that solid portfolio work has to be paid only (which is what you are implying).

-Rowen

Posted by urban prospect: 
So basically pay you and we can get quality???

No, be willing to invest in a purpose other than just seeking images for a portfolio.

Posted by urban prospect: 
So can you define purpose for me...I am kinda dumb

I would be equally dumb if I were to attempt defining your purpose.  Only you can do that.  Smartly, too I hope.

Posted by Leila: 
I'm not sure how many models have experienced this but I've had one TFP shoot that ended up being a complete waste of time. The potographer contacted me though OMP and the work on there page looked pretty good. Good lighting, good composition, and creative. So I went to the shoot and right away I knew it wasn't going to be good. Appearently this photographer was new (which is fine, everyone has to learn somewhere) but they didn't even know how to use their camera or lighting! The photographer kept having to ask other photographers in the studio to make things work. Half the time I was there was just me standing around wating for things to be set up or the photographer going off to ask for help. If your going to call yourself a photographer at least have some idea of what your doing. So anyway all the photos came out looking like shit and were of no use to me. I feel like I got ripped off. To me the whole point of tfp is so both people can benifit and add images to there portfolio. I would never have wanted these pics in my portfolio. This was pretty upsetting and has made me wary of working with new photographers again.

When I first started a year ago, I made it pretty clear to the first girl I shot with that I was new.  The other "bonus" was that we shot outdoors so there was no lighting to know or learn.  All I had to do was experiment with camera angles and settings.

As it turned out, we got a lot of really good pictures and most importantly, she loved them.  Her enthusiasm for the photos gave me a huge ego boost.  Plus, this gave her confidence in ME and she was not only my first, but my second.

You're right, everyone has to start somewhere.  However, you should be at least moderately capable so that out of a few hundred shots, you ought to have at least a few keepers.  I think a 2% to 5% keeper rate should make any shoot effective (assuming you shoot 300 to 400 shots).

My f1st time: http://www.pbase.com/digitalcmh/may_8_2004
My 2nd time: http://www.pbase.com/digitalcmh/may_22_2004

And a couple recent ones:

http://www.pbase.com/digitalcmh/anna
http://www.pbase.com/digitalcmh/ts052905

Posted by DigitalCMH: 

When I first started a year ago, I made it pretty clear to the first girl I shot with that I was new.  The other "bonus" was that we shot outdoors so there was no lighting to know or learn.  All I had to do was experiment with camera angles and settings.

As it turned out, we got a lot of really good pictures and most importantly, she loved them.  Her enthusiasm for the photos gave me a huge ego boost.  Plus, this gave her confidence in ME and she was not only my first, but my second.

You're right, everyone has to start somewhere.  However, you should be at least moderately capable so that out of a few hundred shots, you ought to have at least a few keepers.  I think a 2% to 5% keeper rate should make any shoot effective (assuming you shoot 300 to 400 shots).

My f1st time: http://www.pbase.com/digitalcmh/may_8_2004
My 2nd time: http://www.pbase.com/digitalcmh/may_22_2004

And a couple recent ones:

http://www.pbase.com/digitalcmh/anna
http://www.pbase.com/digitalcmh/ts052905

How could you help but get good images with a model like your first one :-) Looked at your port and you have some good work, but do you shoot non-asian models ;-) What beaches did you use for the shoots?

Posted by theda: 
It happens. Such is life.

The quote goes perfectly with your Avatar.

Posted by Merlyn_Magic Photo: 

How could you help but get good images with a model like your first one :-) Looked at your port and you have some good work, but do you shoot non-asian models ;-) What beaches did you use for the shoots?

True!  She was the perfect find for me. I only owned my D70 for 3 weeks before her and I met up.  of all the people I contacted, I never expected her to contact me because her portfolio was old and pretty crummy.  The reason was, she was kind of tired of modeling.  She agreed to shoot with me because of the few pictures I had posted (family members and a couple shots of Tia Kai that I took at a model event) and that I did not have a studio.  She hates all the flashing lights.

I have no idea how to direct a model either but she knew what to do.  Each time she heard my shutter click, she'd change her pose.  A few times I set my camera to continuous so when she did things like play with her hair I'd just run off 5 to 10 photos and then review them.

I am willing to shoot non-Asians.  Because I met up with Tia Kai and she helped encourage me and get me to events that she would attend, that got me into the Import Scene which is VERY Asian.  It kind of snow balls from there because I think Asian models see my work which draws them to me.  Non-Asians I think steer away from me thinking I only shoot Asians.  There are are non-Asians that have expressed interest in shooting with me, but they aren't local so that makes it difficult.

Most of my beach shots are in Dana Point near the Ritz Carlton.  Christine though, I shot more north off PCH at Crystal Cove.

Chris

Posted by StaciF: 
Every shoot should be viewed as a learning expierence- look at your poses look what worked best for you(regardless of the techy stuff)-and bring that knowledge to your next encounter- trust me I am not an easy model to shoot- and I have had some wasted tfp sessions- but I have also had some phenomenal ones.
  And every shoot I do I seem to get better and better pictures, is it the photographers or is it me?-

Probably a lot of BOTH!

I also feel my repeat sessions with a model are much better than the first.  I think that is largely due to us being a lot more comfortable with each other and we're not only photographer/model but friends.

Posted by area291: 

Posted by Leila: 
To me the whole point of tfp is so both people can benifit and add images to there portfolio.

Seriously, is that what you expect?  It is afterall, Time For Practice.

A solid portfolio is built from actual work, not a get-together barter session.

I'm not sure what you see the point of TFP is but if I'm standing there doing nothing half the time just to get crappy pictures, there is no point. I'ld prefer not to spend a whole day doing something for no perpose.

Posted by Paul Ferrara: 
What do you expect from TFP?  You take your chances.  But it sounds like it was a group shoot to boot.  That's what this guy knew; someone else would set his lights and stuff form him.

Paul

It wasn't a group shoot or a guy for that matter. The girl didn't even know how to use her camera! At least read the directions to the damn thing before shooting with someone.

Posted by StaciF: 
Every shoot should be viewed as a learning expierence- look at your poses look what worked best for you(regardless of the techy stuff)-and bring that knowledge to your next encounter- trust me I am not an easy model to shoot- and I have had some wasted tfp sessions- but I have also had some phenomenal ones.
   

I guess I'm luckily actually. Out of all the TFP I've done this was the only bad one. And staciF thats a good point. Pretty much the only thing the photos were good for were reviewing my poses and expressions. But I could have saved a total of 4 hours driving and just looked in a mirrow. Either way theres nothing I can do about it, except complain which I've obviously done enough of.

Posted by Leila: 

Posted by Paul Ferrara: 
What do you expect from TFP?  You take your chances.  But it sounds like it was a group shoot to boot.  That's what this guy knew; someone else would set his lights and stuff form him.

Paul

It wasn't a group shoot or a guy for that matter. The girl didn't even know how to use her camera! At least read the directions to the damn thing before shooting with someone.

Interesting how the Internet has us all programmed to some degree. I thought you were talking about a guy photographer.

Posted by Joe K. Perez: 

Posted by Leila: 

Posted by Paul Ferrara: 
What do you expect from TFP?  You take your chances.  But it sounds like it was a group shoot to boot.  That's what this guy knew; someone else would set his lights and stuff form him.

Paul

It wasn't a group shoot or a guy for that matter. The girl didn't even know how to use her camera! At least read the directions to the damn thing before shooting with someone.

Interesting how the Internet has us all programmed to some degree. I thought you were talking about a guy photographer.

Yeah I found that amussing too. I purposly left the gender out in the first post cause I figured that would happen. Human nature can be very predictable at times.

Posted by Leila: 
I'm not sure what you see the point of TFP is but if I'm standing there doing nothing half the time just to get crappy pictures, there is no point.

I would agree with that to an extent, Leila.  I don't shoot TFP very often, but I have, and I do see the value it can bring if I can experiment for fine tuning a new method or perhaps help in direction for an incoming project.  That might include the use of new gear.  With that, comes the painstaking work of photography...and modeling, where downtime is a given. 

To the extent of agreement, is your photographer should have had some reasonable knowledge and direction for getting from Point A to Point B without it being too cumbersome, and still make the shoot interesting and worthwhile.

My intent has never been to create portfolio level work via a TFP shoot, but there has been lightning found in the bottle on more than one session.  If it happens, cool.  If not, no sweat.

The key is not setting those expectations too high for myself or the model, yet use the session to explore new areas that might be called upon in the future. 

The one thing I've yet to hear was the session was dull or not fun, even though the work might not be to a level worthy of the book...for either of us.

Posted by starmodels: 


Most of what I post on a web portfolio is from TFP, as paid shoots have use restrictions, or I do not wish to diminish the value of stock work.

All the pics on my online portfolio are from TFP sessions, since the ones I was paid for have restrictions.

Posted by area291: 

Posted by Leila: 
To me the whole point of tfp is so both people can benifit and add images to there portfolio.

Seriously, is that what you expect?  It is afterall, Time For Practice.

A solid portfolio is built from actual work, not a get-together barter session.

Now there is one I have to disagree with.

Some people will only do TFP (speaking for myself) for there artwork (based on principal).

If it is a commercial project that is another story, but if you think only paying assignments produce decent work - well then I guess this falls on deaf ears – and if all people believed such as you,  models such as those that worked for Toulouse-Lautrec , Picasso and other greats would have never lived on in the works.

Posted by AstraDivaJ:
I may be "glass half fulling it", but I always figure having connections never hurts. The guy might not be a great photographer now (or even an okay one), but he might have something else to offer down the line. 

You have NOOOOO idea how many times I have tried to get this thinking into the heads of models and photographers alike. No one today, and SUPERSTAR tomorrow.

Imagine how crappy the agent who told Cindy Crawford she needed to get her mole removed if she ever wanted to be anyone in the business feels right about now? LOL