MichaelNicoletti wrote:
And this woman is 38 not 20 nothing! (lol)

Nic

I don't really think it has anything to do with age. It's about commitment and the determination to get the job done. As of yet I've only had to cancel on one shoot on short notice and I felt horrible. It certainly wasn't because of my nails either!

Amanda Padilla wrote:
I think both of you guys are immature, why even post this on a forum its ridiculous.

If your going to talk why don't you post her MM link, come on!?

MichaelNicoletti wrote:
Because that would be against MM rules. If you feel that way why even respond? We Photographer have to put with a lot of BS excuses for Models we work with. I am just sharing one of my interactions so we can all get a good laugh. It's good for the soul and keeps us from going nutz! (lol)

Um you stated "I would love to read your feedback. I will also be sure to send it to her! (lmao) "

I gave you my feedback and yes we know MODELS say anything in the book to get out of a shoot, its nothing new, is it.

Amanda Padilla wrote:
I think both of you guys are immature, why even post this on a forum its ridiculous.

If your going to talk why don't you post her MM link, come on!?

It's against the rules to name poeple on MM.


Also, he posted this to see iwho if anyone would agree with him or the model. It's not immature on his part.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Mike, I have a better question for you.  Why did you waste your time going back
and forth with her?  Once she started with that bull you should have said no
problem.  Let me know when you are  ready to shoot.  If she contacted you
again ask her for a refundable deposit.  To me it sounds like you are trying to
convince her to shoot and she doesn't want to.  You have talent.  You seem to
be a nice person and your work shows promise so why are you wasting time with
flakey models.  Here's the deal.  If a model wants to shoot with you then she will.
She'll take a shower, make sure her nails are done, hair too.  She'll call you and
show up.  In the future once a model starts with any of that I need to shower crap.  Then let me get as clean as possible just move on.

I agree.  You pretty much sunk to her level.  #1 -- going back and forth with someone being unprofessional is pointless and makes you unprofessional as well.  It confirms her errant assumption that your time has no value.  #2 -- why would you want to convince her to shoot with you when she doesnt want to?  What do you think the results of the shoot would be?  How uncomfortable would it be to try and get good shots with someone you've just had a hard time dealing with?

In the future when you get that, make a note for yourself and if they pursue you later on, tell them you've instited a non-refundable session fee policy to reserve the time slot exclusively for them.  The fee must be paid in advance to book the time slot.  Professional studios do this, you should too.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Mike, I have a better question for you.  Why did you waste your time going back
and forth with her?  Once she started with that bull you should have said no
problem.  Let me know when you are  ready to shoot.  If she contacted you
again ask her for a refundable deposit.  To me it sounds like you are trying to
convince her to shoot and she doesn't want to.  You have talent.  You seem to
be a nice person and your work shows promise so why are you wasting time with
flakey models.  Here's the deal.  If a model wants to shoot with you then she will.
She'll take a shower, make sure her nails are done, hair too.  She'll call you and
show up.  In the future once a model starts with any of that I need to shower crap.  Then let me get as clean as possible just move on.

Thanks for the kind words Tony. You are right but I guess what I do for my day job took over. (lol) I am a closer in sales and my job is to weed out someones BS and get to the real challenge. To put my finger in their chest and back them into a corner until they give up the real deal. I just hate it when someone tries BSing me. I have heard it all before and don't buy a word of it! (lol) I was not going to shoot with her is she agreed to come anyways. I just wanted to win I guess. (lol) Immature maybe. I think it's more just trying to prove a point. The point was she was full of $hit! (ok mhanna go ahead and spank me! lmao!)

Besides,,,, thanks to her I had nothing better to do besides laundry! (lol) I could have went and met Bill on Reddington Beach for his shoot. 

Nic

Crazy-Evil Angelus wrote:

It's against the rules to name poeple on MM.


Also, he posted this to see iwho if anyone would agree with him or the model. It's not immature on his part.

i don't think she's saying that he's immature for posting this. she's probably saying it about the situation? at least that's what i thought...

Nikki Henderson wrote:
i don't think she's saying that he's immature for posting this. she's probably saying it about the situation? at least that's what i thought...

Well, she called him rediculous for posting it. Which was in the same train of thought as her opinion of both of them.

As far as the exchange in the conversation, I have no opinion about. Personally, I wouldn't waste the time to get an answer from the model. (Or photographer. )

Nikki Henderson wrote:
i agree that you're both being immature about it..
from her side, it's understandable... if you're about to be modeling in a shoot, you want to look your best. you don't want to look all sweaty, with screwed up nails...
and from your side, it's not fair of her to just cancel with such short notice..
but, every story has three sides.
your side.
her side.
and the actual story.

it sucks that it didn't fall through, but you also shouldn't be generalizing about "amature models", and saying "how damn dumb to models think we are?"
that's kind of ignorant in itself...

and if this model wasn't so special, because you used her age as a put-down for her, than why would you be so eager to shoot with her--and so dissappointed that she cancelled?
think of it as a good thing for yourself if she's not that great or anything...

you're not being a prick, you're just ticked off. and if she wants to be a "model", she should learn some respect for the photographer, because you're right, they network. so she could just be screwing herself over *lol*

No I was not knocking her for being 38 at all! I meant she was not a 20 nothing immature young girl but an adult woman. As a mature adult i would expect more from than a 20 year old girl who was not as in tune as to whats right and wrong etc. (Not that all 20 YO woman are not mature) She is an adult at 38 and I think the way she acted did not reflect an adults sense for esponsibility. Thats all I meant by that.

And how long does it take to shower and do your makeup so you do not blow off a Photog who is willing to wait for you? (lol) Come on! She had better things to do and did not want to come. Plain and simple! At least thats how I see it.

Nic : )

Nikki Henderson wrote:
i agree that you're both being immature about it..
from her side, it's understandable... if you're about to be modeling in a shoot, you want to look your best. you don't want to look all sweaty, with screwed up nails...
and from your side, it's not fair of her to just cancel with such short notice..
but, every story has three sides.
your side.
her side.
and the actual story.

it sucks that it didn't fall through, but you also shouldn't be generalizing about "amature models", and saying "how damn dumb to models think we are?"
that's kind of ignorant in itself...

and if this model wasn't so special, because you used her age as a put-down for her, than why would you be so eager to shoot with her--and so dissappointed that she cancelled?
think of it as a good thing for yourself if she's not that great or anything...

you're not being a prick, you're just ticked off. and if she wants to be a "model", she should learn some respect for the photographer, because you're right, they network. so she could just be screwing herself over *lol*

BTW.... Very nice port! Are you open to body painting? (lol) Come to FL and let's shoot?

DarioImpiniPhotography wrote:

I agree.  You pretty much sunk to her level.  #1 -- going back and forth with someone being unprofessional is pointless and makes you unprofessional as well.  It confirms her errant assumption that your time has no value.  #2 -- why would you want to convince her to shoot with you when she doesnt want to?  What do you think the results of the shoot would be?  How uncomfortable would it be to try and get good shots with someone you've just had a hard time dealing with?

In the future when you get that, make a note for yourself and if they pursue you later on, tell them you've instited a non-refundable session fee policy to reserve the time slot exclusively for them.  The fee must be paid in advance to book the time slot.  Professional studios do this, you should too.

I just wanted to get her to admit she was full of shit. I was not planning on shooting.

MichaelNicoletti wrote:
Ok this a chat convo I had with a Model who was already late for the shoot and I saw online on AOL IM. Her excuse for cancelling was that she chipped a nail! Please read the BS and tell me if I was an ass or lenient! (lol)

Here we go. Get some popcorn!  

Photog: you comming? lol
The Model: i just got home from work a little bit ago,  actually I  need a shower and stuff so can we do this another time when I have some time to get ready ?
The Model: i am not one that can get ready in a rush i want everything perfect
Photog: So at 10 mins to 6PM on a Friday night you are telling me you are not coming to shoot? :-(
The Model: im sweaty, and i need to do my nails  and it's just kinda too short notice  i want to just not tonight
The Model: hay at least im not trying to bs you
Photog: I wish you would have said that night or today when you called me. I could have booked someone else in the slot or made other plans
Photog: :-(
The Model: it was all good until i chipped my nail at work, and got off late  i thought i could make it
The Model: but now i have to redo them  and get a shower and stuff
Photog: You are cancelling because you chipped a nail? Have you heard of Photoshop? (lol)
The Model: not just that i need a shower.. and i know by the time i do all that...come on
Photog: do you want to do all that and then shoot lingerie and maybe the body painting in my studio?
The Model: i really can't tonight. a saturday would work better or a sunday when i dont have to do anything but get my  stuff together .. wow r u gonna b mad ?
The Model: thats a yes ...?
Photog: lol ok it's obvious you changed your mind about shooting. I thought you were serious. What else do you have to do besides your nails and a shower? (lol) You wold have to shower on a Sat or Sun no? Whatever. :-( Some advise for you.... Photographers in this area are pretty tight and we tend to talk. I am not going to mention this or black list you but most all the rest would. Don't do this to another photog or he could kill your chances of shooting for free with any of the rest
The Model: u know what, it was short notice , and actually i didnt know for sure till noon today if i was going to get to shoot because the other girl didnt show or call the 3rd time you said, and i had a long day today at work and i dont really see how that is my fault. Im  not into being rushed.. im sorry i try to look my best so i can have good images and thats just me
The Model: be fair geez
Photog: I am being fair
Photog: I'm not being a dick
Photog: I'm just calling a spade a spade so to speak
The Model: ok well how bout just another day .. if you dont want to shoot me, thats cool just tell me . and im being honest with you .
Photog: You wanted to shoot and were willing to be on call so to speak. I told you last night I was 99% positive we could shoot
Photog: at 12 you were happy to take the slot
Photog: now it's 6pm and you are cancelling because you need a shower?
The Model: whatever u think  be glad you arent a girl lol
Photog: Sorry it seems like you found something better to do or you would shower and then come
The Model: well like i said im not into being rushed and i got off work late , usually i only do weekends.. how am i supposed to get ready when i worked late  and then the traffic to get to st pete .. im not stressing myself out to end up with pictures i look stressed in . if you dont wanna do it  u dont have to reschedule  up to you
The Model: but thank you
Photog: we can reschedule but I am not pre booking with you since I cannot count on you to show until I see different
Photog: sorry :-(
The Model: oh ok but you didnt say that about the 3 time no show girl .. right ?
Photog: well she showed just could not shoot
Photog: and is incredible!
Photog: so yes
Photog: I cut her some slack as I really want her in my port
Photog: and she has agreed to shoot TFP and normally charges $100-$150 an hour
The Model: at least i told you my situation ..thanks for understanding
The Model: whatever im not arguing with you .
Photog: Hey I don’t agree but am willing to let it slide
Photog: me either
Photog: I'm just a lil ticked that it's now 6:15 on a Friday night and I could have been shooting someone else or out with friends but didn’t make other plans
Photog: so I am sure you can see why I am ticked off
The Model: ok well i cant help my boss had us stay later , shit happens im sorry for any inconvienance and  I think you are treating me like an amature..
Photog: well you are acting like an amateur
Photog: no offense but I am always straight up and honest
Photog: “I can’t come because I chipped a nail and need a shower so the shoot is cancelled”? (lol)
Photog: I would be happy to paste it on the forums on MM and not use your name and let you hear what other Models and Photogs have to say about it in their opinion :-(
Photog: just being honest
The Model: guy look it wasnt until noon  actually 12:30 i found out for sure  the other girl wasnt coming,  and you didn’t call me i called you and it's not as simple as a chipped nail i need to  manicure them so they aren’t all jagged and nasty  you are amazing
The Model signed off at 6:20:20 PM.

Notice how the chipped nail turned into needing a manicure because they were all jagged and nasty?

How damn dumb do Models think we are? And this woman is 38 not 20 nothing! (lol)

I would love to read your feedback. I will also be sure to send it to her! (lmao)

Nic

I don't mean to be too negative but the whole conversation sounds a bit unprofessional to me. IM'ing is great if your friends but not exactly the mecca of professionalism, nor a method of contact that conveys a seriouls model/photographer relationship. I don't know if that's how you've talked to the model in the past but the conversation sounds more like a gf/bf dispute, arguing back and forth, than a model no-show for a shoot. If the preparations and confirmation of the shoot were professional prior to the shoot, the model may have been less likely to treat it in such a casual manner.

However lol...with that said, we've all had no-shows and last-minute cancellations for the most absurd reasons. Mine? I was visiting my b/f in prison and I couldn't get through the admission line in time to make it.

I don't do many TFP's and require a small deposit for paid shoots...which amazingly eliminates this dilemma completely. But when doing TFP's and a model no-shows, there is NO further contact. Your time is too precious to be spent chasing down someone that doesn't take it seriously enough to attend. This sounds like the typical wannabe that "thinks it sounds like fun" but when the time comes to deliver and the reality of doing a real shoot is upon her...either consciously or subconscioucly sabotages it...along with your plans.

My advice would be...once you found out she couldn't make it, regardless of the reason, move on to a real model. Am I right that this was a model with little to no professional shoots? And never get into a swearing match...just unprofessional all around.

MichaelNicoletti wrote:

No I was not knocking her for being 38 at all! I meant she was not a 20 nothing immature young girl but an adult woman. As a mature adult i would expect more from than a 20 year old girl who was not as in tune as to whats right and wrong etc. (Not that all 20 YO woman are not mature) She is an adult at 38 and I think the way she acted did not reflect an adults sense for esponsibility. Thats all I meant by that.

And how long does it take to shower and do your makeup so you do not blow off a Photog who is willing to wait for you? (lol) Come on! She had better things to do and did not want to come. Plain and simple! At least thats how I see it.

Nic : )

good save on the not all 20 YO are not mature.. cuz i was gonna say, lol.. at 18, i was more mature than most 40 yr olds sadly enough
but yeah, it shoudln't have taken all that long to get ready, and she coulda been more honest with you if she had something else to do..
it's kinda a silly situation all around.
see, at my work, there's a 38-42 year old (duno her age) who acts like she's a stupid ditzy 20 year old.. so i see what you're saying..

Jennicide wrote:
Hilarious.

Yeah...hmmm I like that Model didn't call Photographer to let him know she couldn't make it this when it happened.

Got caught on AIM....thats too funny.

Yeah no kidding! Not even a call to let me know.

MichaelNicoletti wrote:

BTW.... Very nice port! Are you open to body painting? (lol) Come to FL and let's shoot?

*LOL*
thank u, if i was in ur area, i'd totally be up for it!
alas, i am in smelly ol' toronto, canada, eh?

Ransom J wrote:
Yeah you wasted your time going back and forth with her.She gave you a bullshit reason, I would have cut off conversation right there.

I had a model flake on me about a month ago.  I called twice and left two model mayhem messages that I KNOW she read.  Funny thing is, when it was clear she wasn't coming I left my standard message that I do for flakes "It's apparant that you aren't taking this TFP  arrangement serious, as you have not called, or shown up for the shoot.  In such instances I rescend all TFP offers.  If you'd like to work together in the future my rates are reasonable.  I wish you luck in all your future endeavors."

THEN she hit me back and told me that she was waiting on ME to call, then it was that she called but my phone was off (hasn't been in over 2 years plus I called her the same day)  Then it was 4 different messages begging me to give her another chance.  All of which have been deleted without response.

Kudos for you!  More photographers need to stand up for themselves and their
art.  Have some damm standards.  Model blows off a TFP shoot.  No shoots
unless she pays or provides a deposit.  Model starts with some crappy excuse
hang up the phone, delete the e-mails or stop the IM.  Most of you have talent.
Most of you are nice people and most of you are wimps.  You allow a pretty or
handsome face to disrespect you.  Some pretty girl is willing to show some
skin and you allow her to do as she pleases.  I'm not saying to be mean or
rigid in dealing with models but enforce some basic rules for yourself.  Make
sure that they call YOU to confirm shoots.  Make sure they call before they
leave to shoot with you.  If you are meeting them make sure you get that call
before you leave.  If you are using a paid MUA get some sort of deposit from the
model.  Look remember this, your time is as valuable as a models.  You are
providing a free service.  However this free service has a real money value.  In
fact every shoot you do means time before the shoot and after to produce the
cd or images you give the model.  The very least a model can do is call to
confirm or to cancel.  If she/he comes to arrive on time ready to shoot.  Stand
up for yourselves.

Ransom J wrote:
.... "It's apparant that you aren't taking this TFP  arrangement serious, as you have not called, or shown up for the shoot.  In such instances I rescend all TFP offers.  If you'd like to work together in the future my rates are reasonable.  I wish you luck in all your future endeavors."

Thats good stuff. Mind if I steal that from ya?

Nikki Henderson wrote:

*LOL*
thank u, if i was in ur area, i'd totally be up for it!
alas, i am in smelly ol' toronto, canada, eh?

Hey, Toronto  is way coooooool!

MichaelNicoletti wrote:
Ok this a chat convo I had with a Model who was already late for the shoot and I saw online on AOL IM. Her excuse for cancelling was that she chipped a nail! Please read the BS and tell me if I was an ass or lenient! (lol)

Here we go. Get some popcorn!  

Photog: you comming? lol
The Model: i just got home from work a little bit ago,  actually I  need a shower and stuff so can we do this another time when I have some time to get ready ?
The Model: i am not one that can get ready in a rush i want everything perfect
Photog: So at 10 mins to 6PM on a Friday night you are telling me you are not coming to shoot? :-(
The Model: im sweaty, and i need to do my nails  and it's just kinda too short notice  i want to just not tonight
The Model: hay at least im not trying to bs you
Photog: I wish you would have said that night or today when you called me. I could have booked someone else in the slot or made other plans
Photog: :-(
The Model: it was all good until i chipped my nail at work, and got off late  i thought i could make it
The Model: but now i have to redo them  and get a shower and stuff
Photog: You are cancelling because you chipped a nail? Have you heard of Photoshop? (lol)
The Model: not just that i need a shower.. and i know by the time i do all that...come on
Photog: do you want to do all that and then shoot lingerie and maybe the body painting in my studio?
The Model: i really can't tonight. a saturday would work better or a sunday when i dont have to do anything but get my  stuff together .. wow r u gonna b mad ?
The Model: thats a yes ...?
Photog: lol ok it's obvious you changed your mind about shooting. I thought you were serious. What else do you have to do besides your nails and a shower? (lol) You wold have to shower on a Sat or Sun no? Whatever. :-( Some advise for you.... Photographers in this area are pretty tight and we tend to talk. I am not going to mention this or black list you but most all the rest would. Don't do this to another photog or he could kill your chances of shooting for free with any of the rest
The Model: u know what, it was short notice , and actually i didnt know for sure till noon today if i was going to get to shoot because the other girl didnt show or call the 3rd time you said, and i had a long day today at work and i dont really see how that is my fault. Im  not into being rushed.. im sorry i try to look my best so i can have good images and thats just me
The Model: be fair geez
Photog: I am being fair
Photog: I'm not being a dick
Photog: I'm just calling a spade a spade so to speak
The Model: ok well how bout just another day .. if you dont want to shoot me, thats cool just tell me . and im being honest with you .
Photog: You wanted to shoot and were willing to be on call so to speak. I told you last night I was 99% positive we could shoot
Photog: at 12 you were happy to take the slot
Photog: now it's 6pm and you are cancelling because you need a shower?
The Model: whatever u think  be glad you arent a girl lol
Photog: Sorry it seems like you found something better to do or you would shower and then come
The Model: well like i said im not into being rushed and i got off work late , usually i only do weekends.. how am i supposed to get ready when i worked late  and then the traffic to get to st pete .. im not stressing myself out to end up with pictures i look stressed in . if you dont wanna do it  u dont have to reschedule  up to you
The Model: but thank you
Photog: we can reschedule but I am not pre booking with you since I cannot count on you to show until I see different
Photog: sorry :-(
The Model: oh ok but you didnt say that about the 3 time no show girl .. right ?
Photog: well she showed just could not shoot
Photog: and is incredible!
Photog: so yes
Photog: I cut her some slack as I really want her in my port
Photog: and she has agreed to shoot TFP and normally charges $100-$150 an hour
The Model: at least i told you my situation ..thanks for understanding
The Model: whatever im not arguing with you .
Photog: Hey I don’t agree but am willing to let it slide
Photog: me either
Photog: I'm just a lil ticked that it's now 6:15 on a Friday night and I could have been shooting someone else or out with friends but didn’t make other plans
Photog: so I am sure you can see why I am ticked off
The Model: ok well i cant help my boss had us stay later , shit happens im sorry for any inconvienance and  I think you are treating me like an amature..
Photog: well you are acting like an amateur
Photog: no offense but I am always straight up and honest
Photog: “I can’t come because I chipped a nail and need a shower so the shoot is cancelled”? (lol)
Photog: I would be happy to paste it on the forums on MM and not use your name and let you hear what other Models and Photogs have to say about it in their opinion :-(
Photog: just being honest
The Model: guy look it wasnt until noon  actually 12:30 i found out for sure  the other girl wasnt coming,  and you didn’t call me i called you and it's not as simple as a chipped nail i need to  manicure them so they aren’t all jagged and nasty  you are amazing
The Model signed off at 6:20:20 PM.

Notice how the chipped nail turned into needing a manicure because they were all jagged and nasty?

How damn dumb do Models think we are? And this woman is 38 not 20 nothing! (lol)

I would love to read your feedback. I will also be sure to send it to her! (lmao)

Nic

You seem to desparate. Models fail because they are not self driven, responsible and don't know the right direction. What chances does a short model really have in the world of modeling?

Website models like to dream, and photographers like to do nude shots. Best advice is to over book so maybe one may show. Also, don't go back and forth with website models. If a websit models starts to make an excuse, the best reply is no reply.

I have had it happen to me many times, and I don't let myself get upset about it. So what, the person disappointed you. Call up a friend and go out, and the next time, just over book so maybe you have 3 models that show up and are willing to do a group shot.

The website model owes nothing to the photographer, and the photographer owes nothing to the website model. This is all free and how does it really advance the photographers or models career.  Simple it doesn't. Now offer to pay, and you will have several website models jumping at the money. That is what 99 percent of all of the website models want anyway, just like 99 percent of the photographers just want to shoot nudes.