David Blewett wrote:
I contacted a model through OMP. I am interested in shooting art nude with her, gave her a link to some examples to see if she was comfortable with that, asked about her limits, rates, availability, etc. Then I get a reply from her "manager" saying "yes she is interested and her rate is $xyz" and that I should call him to book a shoot.

I wrote back to him and said I could probably work with her rate, told him to have her contact me to discuss the others issues, i.e., limits, etc. He writes me back and said she is out of town and that I should call him to book a shoot.

I wrote him back, gave him a list of references and credintials, and told him I saw no point in further discussions with him. Have the model call me and will discuss details of a shoot.

He wrote me back, said the model doesn't contact any photographer directly until HE - her manager - has booked the shoot.

I wrote him one last time and told him I don't book any shoot till I have had direct contact with the model. I again invited him to check my references and creditintials, and have the MODEL contact me if she is interested in working ME. Otherwise, he and she can have a nice day.

A few days later I contacted another model on OMP. Turns out, she has the same "manager". He writes me back and says "yes she is interested, call me to book a shoot".

So I wrote him one last time and referred to our previous exchange of emails. I told him one last time, if the model is interested in working with me, have HER contact me directly. I also told him that I hoped his involvement was not costing his models work.

Do you ever feel like you're chasing your tale? What do you do with people like this?

Signed...
Frustrated...

sometimes managers don't know when to let their clients speak for themselves... i myself have a manager and we're on the same page.

J. Welborn wrote:
If a model on the internet has a manager or says she has a manager it would be best to avoid her .

It's usually some BF or jealous photographer who want's to control her .

I'v been through the BF and photographer pretenting to be the model so I always insist on a phone call to be sure it's a female voice .

No REAL manager would keep a REAL model from working with a qualified photographer .

preach.

Peter Dattolo wrote:

Your port it says you ar 19? You have a child that goes to shoots alone? Maybe this is the manager using the models port? I do not believe this is allowed on MM but i am not sure. Nice port though.
You as a manager are obviously professional and are licensed to do so in your state. I would not have a problem dealing with you most likely but not all managers are legal or real, and it is impossible to tell the difference online without proof.

I don't think there is a problem when a parent is involved in their child's career, there are a few models on here who together with their parents have made a plan for their career. real, legit, agency girls (some over 18, some under) who more or less have their parents filter the requests for nudes and more or less just send  shoot request/information to the agency and let the agency deal with it. so i guess that is a different situation, becuase they aren't like taking a "cut" or anything from their kids. I have NEVER had a problem with any of these girls or their parents. To them it's kind of like being a soccer mom, they take them to auditions, to their trainers and the best part about "mom"-agers is that most of the time they bring snacks for everyone.

and anybody who knows me knows i am all about free food.

Asha wrote:
i don't understand why models with managers even use MM or OMP.  managers are supposed to have connections with stylists and photographers (and not actually act as a photographer) to help the model build his/her look, and also have access to auditions (in case the talent is an actor).  A model with a manager wouldn't NEED to use MM or OMP!  If he/she has a manager, he/she is on the right track and should continue trying to get an agent.  Once signed to an agency, I don't think the model would even be allowed to use these websites.

ohhh someday...

:-)

ding ding ding! your correct! lol

there is nothing a manager can do on OMP MM MP that a model can't do for herself, Yahoogroups included. Further proof, usually the model is an idiot, or attention whore, or both, and athe "manager" just wants to be apart of her life and feel relivant to her. These "models" will probably never do anything more than "shoot around" for a few months or so, get a few "exposure gigs" and fall off the face of the modeling earth.

As professionals, we all must understand modeling and photography is the "thing" to do now. So many new chicks wanna start modeling to launch the "true hollywood" career. so many photogs wanna meet these new chicks, so you buy a camera for a couple hundred bux, start a free profile and "bam' you'll have nekked chicks running through your pad in no time (commercial voice) "Be the envy of all your frieds! buy a camera!!"

with the surge of chicks declaring 'model' you'll have a surge of guys saying "i'll be your manager,"

this one could get long, so i'll stop again.
; )

Asha wrote:
i don't understand why models with managers even use MM or OMP.  managers are supposed to have connections with stylists and photographers (and not actually act as a photographer) to help the model build his/her look, and also have access to auditions (in case the talent is an actor).  A model with a manager wouldn't NEED to use MM or OMP!  If he/she has a manager, he/she is on the right track and should continue trying to get an agent.  Once signed to an agency, I don't think the model would even be allowed to use these websites.

ohhh someday...

:-)

there are a lot of agency girls on model mayhem. typically they are the ones that post "call my agency if you want to test with me", they tend to direct you to their agency. or they just test outside of their agency. its no harm to the agency, the girls all know not to sign papers and whatnot, the agency just gets free images that they can either use or not use for their models.

Treagen Kier wrote:
book through the manager if you want the model. I prefer to deal with a manager alot of times, for

1. you have a better chance of her showing.

2. you have a better chance her of doing whats agreed upon.

3. it creates the professional atmosphere you should want.

4. if you work with the management and everything goes well, you can have easier acces to his agency/ (or whatever) of models if you need any for anything.


alot of managers aren't "true" managers, but these girls need someone to filter their emails and make sure things are on the level. So it canbe in the best interest of the model.
Lotta chicks not smart enough to "book a shoot"  ; )

When you say "manager" in this instance, you mean her agency, don't you?  I think the OP meant people who call themselves "managers" over the Internet on places like OMP.
99% of such so-called "managers" are parasites who are interested in any combination of the following:

1)  Making money off the models, while doing little or nothing to advance the models' careers.

2)  So-called "photographer/managers" whose motivation is to control and hence monopolize the model

3)  Use their position to try and get the girls in bed!

There is only one legit manager I can think of who is on ModelMayhem.

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Treagen Kier wrote:
ps.

If a model is such a star she needs a manager, she shouldn't be on any of these free sites trying to get work.

think about it.

would cindy crawford have a OMP profile?? exactly my point.

and most managers have no clue of hiw the biz works, i talked a few of them into submission. It's easy. just ask them who do they manage and what jobs have they gotten, then ask for client references, then ask for written registration of being a management company, usually works.

Thanks Treagan - I think I'll try this.

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Dan  Hood  MM/Moderator wrote:
This is for California, and it varies greatly from state to state

"A Talent Agency means a person or corporation who engages in the occupation of procuring, offering, promising, or attempting to procure or obtain employment or engagements for an artist. In addition, talent agents can also counsel/advise or direct artists in the development of their professional careers."

Also in California agents or agencies must be licensed and bonded but managers don't, outside of a business license.

A "Manager" is responsible for everything or anything that enhances the development of an artist career. They can give advise, counsel talent/artist in the entertainment industry. Managers can also act as a liaison between their client(s) and talent agent. MANAGERS CAN NOT OBTAIN OR PROCURE EMPLOYMENT FOR AN ARTIST!

If you want to read al about the details here it is
California Code of Regulations, Title 8
Chapter 6. Division of Labor Standards Enforcement
http://www.dir.ca.gov/t8/ch6sb3.html

If you want to check out what agencies in CA are legit or not this link will take you to the Ca website to do a search.

http://www.dir.ca.gov/databases/dlselr/Talag.html

Bottom line in California if a model has a manager the photographer should never know it as all communication should be between the manager and model. When the manager starts dealing with the photographer(client) they defacto become illegal agents.

Hello Dan!  How do I / who do I report to should I discover a "manager" acting like an agent so that they suffer the full force and scrutiny of the law?

Best Regards,
JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Eric S. wrote:
What they mean:
...I thought the power and prestige of controlling the lives of web models would give me tons of great chances to sleep with hot women who would normally throw drinks in my face if I approached them at a club.

That reminds me of another one of those (fake) magazines that I ran across the other day.  The 'magazine' is trying to recruit 'talent scouts' and displays the following ad.  It's not difficult to see what their true intentions are:

Be an A------- S-------- Talent Scout
We're looking for talent scouts to help send new faces and talent our way. Whether it's a friend that you know, or you are simply looking for an excuse to approach someone beautiful at a club, you can help us by referring talent to our casting call area. If you know of someone who is up-and-coming and deserving of a feature story, send an email to: [email protected].

It was actually brought to my attention after a new MM photographer made a forum announcement saying he was a talent scout for this magazine... and as so many other fake managers, agents, and scouts... this 'photographer / scout' had a MM portfolio consisting of pictures that were shot by other photographers.

(His membership on MM was very short lived, the message and the member are gone)

Eric S. wrote:
What they say:
I'm a professional experienced model manager....

Best post on this subject ever!

Treagen Kier wrote:
book through the manager if you want the model. I prefer to deal with a manager alot of times, for

1. you have a better chance of her showing.

2. you have a better chance her of doing whats agreed upon.

3. it creates the professional atmosphere you should want.

4. if you work with the management and everything goes well, you can have easier acces to his agency/ (or whatever) of models if you need any for anything.


alot of managers aren't "true" managers, but these girls need someone to filter their emails and make sure things are on the level. So it canbe in the best interest of the model.
Lotta chicks not smart enough to "book a shoot"  ; )

Book only with real managers. Ask the manager for his state license. If he do not have one his whole operation is fake anyway. He should be doing his taxes every year. Report it to the IRS and the BBB. That will shut all of these fake managers down.

Treagen Kier wrote:

preach.

Can I get another Amen

Henri3 wrote:
Yep- the "management thing" at OMP is a disease that's totally out of control. Yet new models in my area continue to fall for this crap- signing away their future . Why OMP still supports this deception I cannot understand.
It'd be simple to differentiate "managed" models from linked portfilios.
I've shot with a few "managed" models from OMP but NEVER communicate through managers, and I've also had sleazbag photogs write me ,pretending to be the model.
  I was SO delighted to learn that MM doesn't permit this nonsense.

Well not overtly, meaning I'm SURE there are a number of sluggos here but are having to operate in a stealth mode.

Just go over to OMP, and then connect the dots here.

MKP Studios wrote:
Book only with real managers. Ask the manager for his state license.

Texas is one of the very few states that requires that managers be licensed as such.  Most neither license nor regulate managers.  Many states do not license agents either.

MKP Studios wrote:
If he do not have one his whole operation is fake anyway.

Again, true in Texas and Florida, but not hardly anywhere else.

MKP Studios wrote:
He should be doing his taxes every year. Report it to the IRS and the BBB. That will shut all of these fake managers down.

The BBB won't do anything, and if there is no money involved, neither will the IRS.

Henri3 wrote:
Yep- the "management thing" at OMP is a disease that's totally out of control. Yet new models in my area continue to fall for this crap- signing away their future . Why OMP still supports this deception I cannot understand.

also, don't forget, that supporting fake model managers basically helps prop up an industry that doesn't really exist except in fantasy.

MKP Studios wrote:

Book only with real managers. Ask the manager for his state license. If he do not have one his whole operation is fake anyway. He should be doing his taxes every year. Report it to the IRS and the BBB. That will shut all of these fake managers down.

well, at this point, i don't do as much contacting, here and there, and i know enough models to contact if i wanna shoot, as well get assigned models when i'm contacted to shoot for something. But as I said b4, most girls that go for "the manager"  usually won't be around at the end of the day anyway. "modeling and photography" is the "thing to do" nowadays and your gonna have all types of everything all over the net. How many "nothing" jobs do you see listed on photographer and model profiles?? Net jobs, Net mags, Net ads, Net contest, wear a T shirt at a party, blah blah, and NONE have anything to do with modeling in the real world. But it still sucks in the Gullable new folks that just fell off the watermelon truck.

Models ask the phtoographer/manager to send you hard copies of what they do, references etc. new models shop harder for a pair of shoes than they do a photog or manager.

my solution is raise your own bar, let the bottom feeders feed on the bottom, and take your game to a level where you don't see nor hear from that level.  ; )

Treagen Kier wrote:
i talked a few of them into submission. It's easy. just ask them who do they manage and what jobs have they gotten, then ask for client references, then ask for written registration of being a management company, usually works.

Most managers, real or not, can tell you who they manage.  Most of them, real or not, have lists on their websites.  That doesn't help much.

Your questions would work to get rid of a fake manager, but it would get rid of real ones also.  Real agents and managers are not likely to send you "written registration of being a management company", and aren't going to give you client references either.  A client list, yes, a client reference, no.

Just for fun, call up Ford on Wednesday.  Tell them you want to book one of their models, but they need to send you "written registration of being a management company" and client references.  Let us know how it goes.

You see, if a test does not discriminate between real and fake, it's not a very good test.

David Blewett wrote:
...This particular "manager" is a photographer, and lists about 10 models that he manages. His images of "his" models are pretty average or below. The models' images on their own pages with other models are way better. Most of his models do porn, which is really not my interest. And most of his models I would not care to work with.

You just answered your own question, mate. :>)

Another photog in here mentioned it a good thing to go through a manager.  He's right, but I also bet he's talking about a true professional who manages models who are going somewhere, unbound.

You just spelled it out: this guy is a photographer who has about 10 average or below models under his wing, of which most you wouldn't want to work with.

It's pretty clear to me and I'm sure many others that, such a "manager" surely would never be calling the shots for above average models who actually know what they are doing with their careers.

Chalk this up to just another experience with one of many people out there who want to control things but end up causing other people (his models in this case) to suffer.

Cheers!

TXPhotog wrote:
You see, if a test does not discriminate between real and fake, it's not a very good test.

I don't need no stinkin' test.  I don't work through fake managers 'cause they're dickheads and I can't afford models who have real managers 'cause I'm a goddamn cheap-ass penny-pinchin' starvin' artist.  And I'm not even sure about that artist part.

Eric S. wrote:
What they say:
I know the best fashion photographers in the business and can easily get them to tfp with you.

What they mean:
I have e-mail adresses for Roberto Aguillar, Jerry Avenaim, Andres Hernandez, and Antoine Verglas, but never actually communicated with them.

Alternatively: "I will pretend to arrange tests with other photographers, but will either force them to pay so that I can get MY cut or block them from shooting with you because they are better photographers than I am."

Eric S. wrote:
What they say:
I have represented the hottest models on the net.

What they mean:
I set up a test shoot for Kelly Kole in 2001.

Alternatively: "The models I used to represent are now getting steady work doing blowjob videos."

Eric S. wrote:
What they say:
My models are always working.

What they mean:
My models have full time jobs at Hooters.

Alternatively: "The models I represent are getting steady work doing blowjob videos."

Eric S. wrote:
What they say:
I'm engaged and have no intention of getting involved with my models or hitting on them.

What they say:
I haven't had a girlfriend since high school and I thought the power and prestige of controlling the lives of web models would give me tons of great chances to sleep with hot women who would normally throw drinks in my face if I approached them at a club.

Absolutely!!!

Eric S. wrote:
What they say:
My reputation speaks for itself

What they mean:
I've been called out on numerous forums, and when anyone bad mouths me on OMP or MM, I call them late at night and yell at them in a psychotic way, telling them they have it all wrong, and "hating" is wrong, and they need to be more positive and instead of hating, they need to work on their OWN portfolios instead of worrying about me, they don't even have all the facts, and don't know I've been in the business for 9 years. And if they say anything bad about me ever again, I'll come to their houses and "fix shit"

Strangely enough - I did experience this, but whoever it was (someone I was debating on one of the forums OR some "manager") that left the vaguely-threatening message on my voice mail wasn't very coherent (probably drank a bottle of whatever to work up the nerve).  Of course, when I left THEM a message seeking clarification, they never called back.

KM von Seidl wrote:
also, don't forget, that supporting fake model managers basically helps prop up an industry that doesn't really exist except in fantasy.

Ahhhhh something that I noted on another thread a few days ago. Hooray! Someone else "gets" it.

Studio36

gr82bart wrote:
I know one model that is so busy, she has a personal assistant to do the booking and follow up calling.
Art.

And if the so-called "managers" actually described themselves as "personal assistants" then we would all know where we stand. But they don't.

Studio36

studio36uk wrote:
And if the so-called "managers" actually described themselves as "personal assistants" then we would all know where we stand. But they don't.

I don't really care what they call themselves. Secretaries can call themselves executive admins, garbage collectors can call themselves sanitation technicians and guys with cameras can call themselves photographers. Whatever.

If a PA decides to call themselves a manager and behave like one to the detriment of the model, I could care less. It's the model's life.

Regards, Art.

Raven Photography wrote:
I just found a models profile with a manager on this site.

I won't be EVER dealing with a model with a manager. Model has a manager then I'm not interested in her/him.

"Manager" can mean many things.  There are real ones.  Super bozos and then...I'm not sure what they are...friendly guys who just can't say no to a gorgeous woman.

On another site that starts with O__ __  model managers are permitted, maybe even encouraged.   So you see more model portfolios than not linked to other photographers.

If you look at those photographers acting as "managers" and then come here, you see many are on MM.

They don't exactly have the same bio here that they do THERE.

But what you can often see, in their bio HERE is stuff like this:

Extensive experience dev. models and model portfolios.  Normal rates at $$ but for exceptional models I may allow TFP (and get you into my stable).

Often in their bio,  you see stuff that says MODELS I HAVE HAD THE PLEASURE TO WORK WITH (as if this was an accident) they list the models and then go back over to that OTHER SITE and viola! they just happen to be the models they're managing!  Funny how that works.

Then check out the tags.  Lots of MWUUUAHHs back and forth between the models they (manage?)  stuff like  "Oh Richardee, i just LOVED working with you the other day, can't wait to see the results, but I KNOW they'll rawk just like they always do!"

I guess this form of marketing must work, why else would they do it?