Amanda W wrote:

I manage my daughter at this time because she is also in College. If A photog contacts me or my daughter for a shoot I always make sure he/she gets to speak with her. They need to build a rapor before the shoot and that starts on the phone. I only help to screen and negotiate rates and that is when she is unavailable at the time of the initial request. My daughter and I have worked together on a professional basis for years. I also ( at times ) escort her to shoots or assignments. She also goes on assignments alone and that is determined by the gig. The photographers she has worked with can vouch for our professionalism as well. The first step to a succesful shoot is communication directly between the Model and the Photog period! I would not make a blatent comment about managers. They are not all bad or difficult. Every situation needs to be handled on a case to case basis.
Thats my 2 cents
April

Your port it says you ar 19? You have a child that goes to shoots alone? Maybe this is the manager using the models port? I do not believe this is allowed on MM but i am not sure. Nice port though.
You as a manager are obviously professional and are licensed to do so in your state. I would not have a problem dealing with you most likely but not all managers are legal or real, and it is impossible to tell the difference online without proof.

David Blewett wrote:
How does one deal with model managers

It's simple:  you don't.

Amanda W wrote:
I manage my daughter at this time because she is also in College. If A photog contacts me or my daughter for a shoot I always make sure he/she gets to speak with her. They need to build a rapor before the shoot and that starts on the phone. I only help to screen and negotiate rates and that is when she is unavailable at the time of the initial request. My daughter and I have worked together on a professional basis for years. I also ( at times ) escort her to shoots or assignments. She also goes on assignments alone and that is determined by the gig. The photographers she has worked with can vouch for our professionalism as well. The first step to a succesful shoot is communication directly between the Model and the Photog period! I would not make a blatent comment about managers. They are not all bad or difficult. Every situation needs to be handled on a case to case basis.
Thats my 2 cents
April

If I were PAYING models........I absolutely would deal with managers.
But,
I rarely do-
hence,
it's better for me dealing with the model directly.
Your daughter is gorgeous,
and I think you are conducting yourself properly.
I applaud you.

Amanda W wrote:
I manage my daughter at this time because she is also in College. If A photog contacts me or my daughter for a shoot I always make sure he/she gets to speak with her. They need to build a rapor before the shoot and that starts on the phone. I only help to screen and negotiate rates and that is when she is unavailable at the time of the initial request. My daughter and I have worked together on a professional basis for years. I also ( at times ) escort her to shoots or assignments. She also goes on assignments alone and that is determined by the gig. The photographers she has worked with can vouch for our professionalism as well. The first step to a succesful shoot is communication directly between the Model and the Photog period! I would not make a blatent comment about managers. They are not all bad or difficult. Every situation needs to be handled on a case to case basis.
Thats my 2 cents
April

And that is how it SHOULD work. I've dealt with moms and dads who manage their daughters. But in all cases, the parent made the initial contact (or the initial response if I initiated the contact), but once they determined I was not a stalker or worse they made sure I talked directly to their daughter/model. And for the very reason you stated, to build rapport and connect on a professional level.

I have no problem with a model having someone help screen offers and help them know a good offer from a bad one. What I object to is someone running interferance and NOT allowing direct contact with the model.

Thanks for your input, April.

By the way... Amanda is stunning...

D

Looknsee Photography wrote:
A few thoughts:

What should a manager's role be?  As noted above, the manager should filter out the bad crap from the legitimate offers, and quite possibly do the necessary negotiations for the sitting.

In California that would be illegal. It sounds like most people here are getting confused between the differences of a manager and a agent.

Michael Barian wrote:
what do you think managers do?
I don't understand your frustration.

don't contact models that have managers and you will avoid this in the future.

I NEVER deal with managers............EVER.

In states like California, Managers are limited to just giving advice and developing a persons skills. Managers are not to procure work or negotiate work. That's why there are Agents. We have found that this is not the case. There are also many so-called web agents that are not really agents.

In the manager senario, the model should find own work and negotiate it. The manager is only an advisor.

David Blewett wrote:
Do you ever feel like you're chasing your tale? What do you do with people like this?

Honestly, is she really worth it? I'd move on.

Regards, Art.

phcorcoran wrote:
I reply with something like:


Dear ____:

Thank you for writing me about model Brandi, who you represent.  Unfortunately I have had bad experiences with some models who, although of legal age, aren't mature enough to make decisions on their own.  Because of that I've learned to only deal directly with models themselves.  It is a firm policy of mine.  If Brandi is interested in discussing a photo shoot with me then please have her telephone me herself.  Otherwise I thank you for your time, but unless I speak with Brandi herself then I must decline to work with her.

Regards,
. . .


I have found that once I explain my reasons for wanting to talk with the models directly, their "managers" often agree to it.

This is actually pretty close to my email to him, although the "mature enough to make decisions on their own" is nice touch. I did make it clear that I do NOT book a shoot until I have direct communication with the model, preferrably by phone.

And finally, I thanked him for his time and wished them both well in their careers... and I'm moving on.

D

Select Models wrote:
Come on David... you know how the game is played at OMP... attention whore model managers living vicarously thru their models.  And being the admin of the Webmodels Forum... after everything that's been posted on your messageboard RE this topic... you should know better...

You're right, I should. I just never had to deal with someone like that or that situation myself. Any past dealings I've had with parents or managers have been by way of introduction, an explanation of what I want to shoot and where and compensation, if any, and then it's me and the model who work out most of the details. Although I did shoot with one model who was 13/14 at the time. Her dad pretty much handled all of the details with me. But even he insisted that she talk directly with me, just to help her know who I am and build that rapport that is so important.

Funny thing... in the protective manager situation I first described, he told me that the model was in great demand, and if I shoot with her I will see why... guess I'll never know...

D

David Blewett wrote:
. . . the "mature enough to make decisions on their own" is nice touch.

That's not me being smug, it's sometimes been my actual experience.  I only photograph models 18 or older, but some young women are unsure of themselves and so they find a "manager" to advise them.  I wont' shoot with a model now unless I'm satisfied that she'll be comfortable with making her own decisions about everything.

Dan  Hood  MM/Moderator wrote:

In California that would be illegal. It sounds like most people here are getting confused between the differences of a manager and a agent.

How so?

Michael Barian wrote:
what do you think managers do?
I don't understand your frustration.

don't contact models that have managers and you will avoid this in the future.

I NEVER deal with managers............EVER.

Thomas Watkin wrote:
Good question. What do they do?

There is at least one model "manager" here on MM who gets the model's emails, and responds to the photographer (ie, me) as if he were the model. That seems dishonest to me, but in several cases it took a while before I realized I wasn't actually communicating with the model at all. If anyone wants to know who this is, message me, and I'll tell you.

Another manager I've met here is quite friendly and recently booked a model with me (for no fee).

you better watch that it doesn't bite you later. hiring talent by a "manager" with no license is illegal in some states.

Zoe Wiseman wrote:
did you ask to see the "manager's" license to manage talent? here in california it is illegal for anyone to manage talent without a license to do so. i don't know the laws in other states really.

i hate this shit. i modeled for over 20 years, some with agent representation and other times on my own. now as a photographer the shit that's been dealt here on the net is just pathetic. it's the crown of unprofessionalism. i've had this happen to me once, and guess what.... the model didn't get the job. i'll deal with an agency... but not some bafoon pretending to be someone's "manager." i'm not an idiot.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
If I was the OP, this is what I would have done differently:
   >>>  I would provide references to verify that I am legitimate.
   >>>  I would have agreed to a rate contingent upon a model
          interview.
   >>>  I would have stated that I would schedule a sitting only
          after said interview.
   >>>  I would have cut off contact after that.

I would ask for the "manager" bona fides first... are they licensed? bonded? where? and what is their registration number? Providing your details and trusting that the manager is who and what they say they are, without checking, is a fools game. There is ample evidence that some "managers" are even unknown to the models they claim to "manage"... much less licensed and bonded as some states require.

Interesting that as one poster pointed out, and in light of it, that YOU are at risk of committing a criminal act in Florida even dealing with an unlicensed "manager."

DUH!!!!

Studio36

Looknsee Photography wrote:
How so?

This is for California, and it varies greatly from state to state

"A Talent Agency means a person or corporation who engages in the occupation of procuring, offering, promising, or attempting to procure or obtain employment or engagements for an artist. In addition, talent agents can also counsel/advise or direct artists in the development of their professional careers."

Also in California agents or agencies must be licensed and bonded but managers don't, outside of a business license.

A "Manager" is responsible for everything or anything that enhances the development of an artist career. They can give advise, counsel talent/artist in the entertainment industry. Managers can also act as a liaison between their client(s) and talent agent. MANAGERS CAN NOT OBTAIN OR PROCURE EMPLOYMENT FOR AN ARTIST!

If you want to read al about the details here it is
California Code of Regulations, Title 8
Chapter 6. Division of Labor Standards Enforcement
http://www.dir.ca.gov/t8/ch6sb3.html

If you want to check out what agencies in CA are legit or not this link will take you to the Ca website to do a search.

http://www.dir.ca.gov/databases/dlselr/Talag.html

Bottom line in California if a model has a manager the photographer should never know it as all communication should be between the manager and model. When the manager starts dealing with the photographer(client) they defacto become illegal agents.

Zoe Wiseman wrote:
did you ask to see the "manager's" license to manage talent? here in california it is illegal for anyone to manage talent without a license to do so. i don't know the laws in other states really.

i hate this shit. i modeled for over 20 years, some with agent representation and other times on my own. now as a photographer the shit that's been dealt here on the net is just pathetic. it's the crown of unprofessionalism. i've had this happen to me once, and guess what.... the model didn't get the job. i'll deal with an agency... but not some bafoon pretending to be someone's "manager." i'm not an idiot.

Zoe, you are confusing the terms "manager" and "agent" in California they are not interchangeable terms.

Agents must be licensed & bonded but managers don't. (other than business license)

See my other post.

Dan  Hood  MM/Moderator wrote:

Zoe, you are confusing the terms "manager" and "agent" in California they are not interchangeable terms.

Agents must be licensed & bonded but managers don't. (other than business license)

See my other post.

maybe i should have been more clear. manager's do have to have a license. my significant other deals with a manager on a daily basis and he has to be licensed so that if he starts acting like an agent his license can be taken away along with his business. with so much talent in california there has to be some kind of check and balance when it comes to things like this.

Zoe Wiseman wrote:
maybe i should have been more clear. manager's do have to have a license. my significant other deals with a manager on a daily basis and he has to be licensed so that if he starts acting like an agent his license can be taken away along with his business. with so much talent in california there has to be some kind of check and balance when it comes to things like this.

Show me the regulations that say a manager must be licensed. If your friend acts upon the definition of a agent they are a agent and must be subject to the laws of one whether or not they call themselves one. No managers in the California definition of "manager" needs to be licensed or bonded.

Dan  Hood  MM/Moderator wrote:
Show me the regulations that say a manager must be licensed. If your friend acts upon the definition of a agent they are a agent and must be subject to the laws of one whether or not they call themselves one. No managers in the California definition of "manager" needs to be licensed or bonded.

business license... and he doesn't act as an agent... William Morris does that for my SO, i was agreeing with you.

Thomas Watkin wrote:
Good question. What do they do?

There is at least one model "manager" here on MM who gets the model's emails, and responds to the photographer (ie, me) as if he were the model. That seems dishonest to me, but in several cases it took a while before I realized I wasn't actually communicating with the model at all. If anyone wants to know who this is, message me, and I'll tell you.

Another manager I've met here is quite friendly and recently booked a model with me (for no fee).

The mods have previously stated in this thread that they are interested in investigating all such individuals.

David Blewett wrote:
Do you ever feel like you're chasing your tale? What do you do with people like this?

You have a lot of patience my freind.
Basically you're dealing with a boyfreind or maybe more.
Good thing this thing flopped. Think about it.. Imagine the guy at the shoot telling you 'HE is the one that will pose her for you'... sad.. but true.

She is not worth it. Plenty of professional models who would rather shoot with you.
I am not being harsh, I am being profesional about this.

-Marek

Jim Ball wrote:

Excellent advice.

Yup, thats the ticket

Dan  Hood  MM/Moderator wrote:
This is for California, and it varies greatly from state to state

"A Talent Agency means a person or corporation who engages in the occupation of procuring, offering, promising, or attempting to procure or obtain employment or engagements for an artist. In addition, talent agents can also counsel/advise or direct artists in the development of their professional careers."

Also in California agents or agencies must be licensed and bonded but managers don't, outside of a business license.

A "Manager" is responsible for everything or anything that enhances the development of an artist career. They can give advise, counsel talent/artist in the entertainment industry. Managers can also act as a liaison between their client(s) and talent agent. MANAGERS CAN NOT OBTAIN OR PROCURE EMPLOYMENT FOR AN ARTIST!

If you want to read al about the details here it is
California Code of Regulations, Title 8
Chapter 6. Division of Labor Standards Enforcement
http://www.dir.ca.gov/t8/ch6sb3.html

If you want to check out what agencies in CA are legit or not this link will take you to the Ca website to do a search.

http://www.dir.ca.gov/databases/dlselr/Talag.html

Bottom line in California if a model has a manager the photographer should never know it as all communication should be between the manager and model. When the manager starts dealing with the photographer(client) they defacto become illegal agents.

Ah, so a model can obtain the "services" of a "friend" to screen out the creeps from the legitimate opportunities, and then turn the whole thing over to the model.  In fact, as I read this, the "friend" can even inform the photographer about the model's typical rates -- as long as the "friend" doesn't close the deal or schedule the sitting, he's not acting as a "manager".

waynesglamgirls wrote:
I don't deal with llama managers.  I prefer to deal with the llama asumming she 2 eyes and a brain.

Do you hire llamas based on their ability to read

Peter Dattolo wrote:

LMAO  Damn did you write the book on this subject. Talk about hitting it on the head.

it's sOOOoOoOOo common man, so common. and sad. I've had 4 girls this past week tell me stories about photographers(photog./manager) in my area "scared" to have them shoot with me for simular reasons. It's sad. It only cost the model (wannabe) true opportunity to shop the market and see who or what can help her succeed the most.  But then again, if the model is getting the required attention from the "sluggo" she's good for a while, the reason i call them "wannabes"