Model
OC Girl
Posts: 1033
Costa Mesa, California, US
Agencies like young girls. I hear all the time that if you're over 20, your chances of getting signed aren't that good. Is this generally speaking, for fashion and commercial, or just fashion?
I'm 23. I can look 16 (albeit a tall 16 year old) or 30. If all that matters is how old you look, why do agencies care? Is it because they assume you'll look young longer?
Ok, my main questions. Should I lie to the agency? Should I tell them I'm 18 or 19? If I get signed, they'll eventually know when I fill out a W-9. Will they still market me as younger? Will they be angry and release me from my contract? Or will they not care?
What are the repercussions (bad spelling) if any? Has this happened personally to anyone? What was your experience? What should I say?
Thanks.
Photographer
Steven Bigler
Posts: 1007
Schenectady, New York, US
I don't think it will matter one way or the other.. they will look at your face and pictures and then it will be done.
You could tell them you are an oak tree.. but if they don't like the way you look... they won't care.
Photographer
Steven Bigler
Posts: 1007
Schenectady, New York, US
I don't think it will matter one way or the other.. they will look at your face and pictures and then it will be done.
You could tell them you are an oak tree.. but if they don't like the way you look... they won't care.
Photographer
miss z
Posts: 977
San Francisco, California, US
Don't lie. I'm sure people can bend the rules if they find you exceptional. 
Model
The_N_Word
Posts: 5067
New York, New York, US
Lie. I wanna know what happens.
Photographer
Michael Kirst
Posts: 3231
Los Angeles, California, US
It's been said that no agent or manager is legally allowed to ask (or be given an answer) as to your age. But when it comes right down to it in my opinion, honesty is the best policy. And when they 1099 you for work done you will have to provide a SS# and they will find out anyway. And then the jobs. I'm sure they will want to know if you need to have mommy or daddy sign the release for doing certain types of work. So you see, it's not only really unavoidable but unnecissary as well.
And to answer your question as to the personal experience...yes...
I was once considered for a role on One Life to Live when I was acting and at the callback audition the director asked my age and I tried to dodge around the issue with the "you're not legally allowed to ask that.....". "How old are you" in a stern voice was what I got. At which point I gave them my (real) age. I mean c'mon I'm not going to piss someone off and NOT get the job because I lied!! I didn't get it anyway as it turns out.
Model
OC Girl
Posts: 1033
Costa Mesa, California, US
Nerlande wrote:
Lie. I wanna know what happens. Um...g...thanks
lol
Model
OC Girl
Posts: 1033
Costa Mesa, California, US
I know they'll have to like me first to even wonder. I just don't wanna screw myself over. It's good to know they're not supposed to ask. I didn't know that law applied to entertainment type of jobs.
Photographer
FKVPhotography
Posts: 30064
Ocala, Florida, US
Seems kind of strange when agencies lie all the time about the age of their models.....in their case it's the reverse.....they send out minors to shoots telling them to lie and tell the clients/photographers they are older.....
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Michael Kirst wrote:
It's been said that no agent or manager is legally allowed to ask (or be given an answer) as to your age. But when it comes right down to it in my opinion, honesty is the best policy. And when they 1099 you for work done you will have to provide a SS# and they will find out anyway. I don't understand any of that.
There is no law prohibiting an agency or manager from asking your age. In fact, they are required to know it to avoid some potential legal pitfalls. The only time you can lie to an agent is at first meeting, when they are deciding whether or not they want to represent you. Once you get to "yes" you need to tell them the truth.
1099s and social security numbers have nothing to do with age.
As far as age and an fashion/commercial: for editorial fashion, younger is better. For fashion print, 23 is fine. For commercial print, 23 is OK, 25 is better - but you have to be really 25, not just look like it.
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
TXPhotog wrote:
I don't understand any of that.
There is no law prohibiting an agency or manager from asking your age. In fact, they are required to know it to avoid some potential legal pitfalls. The only time you can lie to an agent is at first meeting, when they are deciding whether or not they want to represent you. Once you get to "yes" you need to tell them the truth.
1099s and social security numbers have nothing to do with age.
As far as age and an fashion/commercial: for editorial fashion, younger is better. For fashion print, 23 is fine. For commercial print, 23 is OK, 25 is better - but you have to be really 25, not just look like it. In California it is against the law for an employer to ask an applicant for their age. Just like they can't ask about your ethnicity etc (though that is usually pretty obvious).
However, I'm quite certain these rules are different in the entertainment industry as those issues might actually be important (such as not having a 60 y.o. man suing to play the part of a 16 y.o.).
Photographer
Soren McCarty
Posts: 151
Boulder, Colorado, US
They assume if you are older than you know more and are less likely to be taken advantage of. Something that people who run business look for in victims.
Photographer
Alexis_Kennedy
Posts: 1308
Portland, Oregon, US
Don't lie. In the end it will just make you look unreliable.
Photographer
Fade To Black
Posts: 411
Baltimore, Maryland, US
Whenever I interviewed someone for a position at my old job as store manager, the question was always "Can you provide us proof that you are at least of legal required working age?" or the sort. You can't ask age, religion, and the like.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
DigitalCMH wrote:
In California it is against the law for an employer to ask an applicant for their age. Just like they can't ask about your ethnicity etc (though that is usually pretty obvious).
However, I'm quite certain these rules are different in the entertainment industry as those issues might actually be important (such as not having a 60 y.o. man suing to play the part of a 16 y.o.). 1. An agency is not an employer. The client is the employer.
2. There are many jobs for which a model must be a certain age. Models under 25 cannot appear in alcohol or tobacco ads, for instance, and the agency must know how old people are. There are many other such requirements.
3. California law specifies the "protected areas" which an agency cannot use to discriminate. Age is not one of them:
"1700.47. It shall be unlawful for any licensee to refuse to represent any artist on account of that artist's race, color, creed, sex, national origin, religion, or handicap."
Model
Kassandra
Posts: 1076
Coram, New York, US
*looks around a little* dont kill me..but.. You dont look 16 at all
Model
AuLa
Posts: 1176
West Hollywood, California, US
I don't think you can appear to be 16 at all.
Photographer
removed member
Posts: 249
Steven Bigler wrote:
tell them you are an oak tree. perfect.
if youre going to lie, at least get creative. tell them you were once a siamese twin joined by all ten finger tips.
16? im not even buying 23.
Photographer
Bill Gunter
Posts: 547
Daytona Beach, Florida, US
If an agency takes on a 16 year old they are likely to have her work with them for a longer time than a 26 year old, which is a good reason to go with the younger models.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Bill Gunter wrote:
If an agency takes on a 16 year old they are likely to have her work with them for a longer time than a 26 year old, which is a good reason to go with the younger models. Just the opposite.
On average, a 16 year old will experience a life change in about two years, as she graduates from high school and gets on with whatever is next for her. Teens are a very turbulent time, full of transitions and changes.
The average professional lifespan of a signed NYC fashion model is six weeks.
By 26 people are more likely to be stable (or more stable). A commercial agency often has models that are with it for decades, and most of them started in their 20s.
Fashion agencies want young faces because the fashion industry wants young faces. That's it.
Model
theda
Posts: 21719
New York, New York, US
jason messer wrote:
perfect.
if youre going to lie, at least get creative. tell them you were once a siamese twin joined by all ten finger tips.
16? im not even buying 23. I'm with you. Get creative if you're going to lie. If she passes for 16, I must pass for 12.
Don't bother lying to the agents. They know better. Let them lie to the clients. It's their job. It's not like you'll be doing fashion anyway. The market for 30-somethings is wider anyway.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
theda wrote:
Doh't bother lying to the agents. They know better. Let them lie to the clients. It's their job. Exactly. It's also the agent's job to know when a lie is appropriate, and when it's not.
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
jason messer wrote:
perfect.
if youre going to lie, at least get creative. tell them you were once a siamese twin joined by all ten finger tips.
16? im not even buying 23. theda wrote:
I'm with you. Get creative if you're going to lie. If she passes for 16, I must pass for 12.
Don't bother lying to the agents. They know better. Let them lie to the clients. It's their job. It's not like you'll be doing fashion anyway. The market for 30-somethings is wider anyway. Agreed. I'm looking at the pics & thinking 30.
Chris Rock has a routine about this. Women often don't look their age & in this business often look older.
Why try to fake younger?
Photographer
Michael Kirst
Posts: 3231
Los Angeles, California, US
TXPhotog wrote:
I don't understand any of that.
There is no law prohibiting an agency or manager from asking your age. In fact, they are required to know it to avoid some potential legal pitfalls. The only time you can lie to an agent is at first meeting, when they are deciding whether or not they want to represent you. Once you get to "yes" you need to tell them the truth.
1099s and social security numbers have nothing to do with age.
As far as age and an fashion/commercial: for editorial fashion, younger is better. For fashion print, 23 is fine. For commercial print, 23 is OK, 25 is better - but you have to be really 25, not just look like it. Alright!! The watchdog strikes!
"It has been said"....just like it reads. I don't advocate the use of dishonesty when it comes to getting an agent, work or anything else for that matter hence the "Honesy is the best policy..." MK
Photographer
StMarc
Posts: 2959
Chicago, Illinois, US
TXPhotog wrote:
1099s and social security numbers have nothing to do with age. Not quite true. When I request a background check for a potential employee, one of the items in the report tells me if the SSN they provided is valid, if it has any legal action pending, and when and where it was issued. The "when" part has a range of years, but it's not a big range.
M
Photographer
Ransomaniac
Posts: 12588
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Nerlande wrote:
Lie. I wanna know what happens. Ur an ass. LOL.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
StMarc wrote:
The "when" part has a range of years, but it's not a big range. That depends.
1. An immigrant, for instance, may have a SSAN issued at age 35. No way to judge age based on that.
2. A person whose parents do not claim a deduction for their children may not get a SSAN for them for quite a while. Those from the lower economic groups in particular fall into that category.
3. I didn't get a SSAN until I was 18. So if you check on my SSAN, how old am I?
The range can certainly be large enough to cover a lie told by a model about her age.
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
TXPhotog wrote:
1. An agency is not an employer. The client is the employer.
2. There are many jobs for which a model must be a certain age. Models under 25 cannot appear in alcohol or tobacco ads, for instance, and the agency must know how old people are. There are many other such requirements.
3. California law specifies the "protected areas" which an agency cannot use to discriminate. Age is not one of them:
"1700.47. It shall be unlawful for any licensee to refuse to represent any artist on account of that artist's race, color, creed, sex, national origin, religion, or handicap." Exactly 
Model
Nemi
Posts: 27413
Jamaica, New York, US
Okay....so show us a picture where you look 16.
....cuz I ain't seein any.
Makeup Artist
Rayrayrose
Posts: 3510
Los Angeles, California, US
TXPhotog wrote:
1. An agency is not an employer. The client is the employer.
2. There are many jobs for which a model must be a certain age. Models under 25 cannot appear in alcohol or tobacco ads, for instance, and the agency must know how old people are. There are many other such requirements.
3. California law specifies the "protected areas" which an agency cannot use to discriminate. Age is not one of them:
"1700.47. It shall be unlawful for any licensee to refuse to represent any artist on account of that artist's race, color, creed, sex, national origin, religion, or handicap." Agencies "discriminate" all the time. otherwise they would have to rep everybody that walked into their office. If an agency already has 2 asian girls, and an asian girl walks into their office to be represented, they will more than likely turn her away because they already have 2 girls onthe roster. I have a friend who has the most beautiful red hair and she was having a hard time switching agencies, because everybody else already had redheads on the roster. I mean in the modeling world it is about your looks, so of course your race, color and whether they need a man or a woman is going to play a factor.
Model
OC Girl
Posts: 1033
Costa Mesa, California, US
30??? I look nothing less than 30??? Ouch. It's funny, because people have always thought I was older based on how I carried myself and my maturity level. But I did a shoot last week and the other models had no idea I was so "old". They thought I was 17. I realize I don't look 16 in the photos I have posted. There's really no reason to have them on here. No one's looking for a "teen" model unless it's for porn. I do get lots of acting jobs where I play a teenager though. With the right clothes, hair and facial expressions I look 16.
Model
Nemi
Posts: 27413
Jamaica, New York, US
OC Girl wrote:
30??? I look nothing less than 30??? Ouch. It's funny, because people have always thought I was older based on how I carried myself and my maturity level. But I did a shoot last week and the other models had no idea I was so "old". They thought I was 17. I realize I don't look 16 in the photos I have posted. There's really no reason to have them on here. No one's looking for a "teen" model unless it's for porn. I do get lots of acting jobs where I play a teenager though. With the right clothes, hair and facial expressions I look 16. Acting jobs don't count.....I played a 12 year old last year. I'm 20.
Photographer
LeDeux Art
Posts: 50123
San Ramon, California, US
whenever you lie on a contract it nullafies the paper, makes it no longer legally binding, Jonathan
Photographer
Michael Kirst
Posts: 3231
Los Angeles, California, US
TXPhotog wrote:
DigitalCMH wrote:
"1700.47. It shall be unlawful for any licensee to refuse to represent any artist on account of that artist's race, color, creed, sex, national origin, religion, or handicap." Heh....yeah ok
Model
Chandani Mahant
Posts: 2
Houston, Alaska, US
I don't think you should lie...I'm 21 and my agency still signed me. They didn't care how old I was; they just needed to see how photogenic I was and how I looked physically. If they think you take good pictures and that they can market you they won't care about your age.
Model
Nemi
Posts: 27413
Jamaica, New York, US
Chandani Mahant wrote:
I don't think you should lie...I'm 21 and my agency still signed me. They didn't care how old I was; they just needed to see how photogenic I was and how I looked physically. If they think you take good pictures and that they can market you they won't care about your age. What agency is this?
Model
Shellane
Posts: 204
Orlando, Florida, US
I'll be honest when I first registered with MM, I lied because of all of the jobs asking for 18-26 year olds. But after a couple of nice models here (Rebeca, Jaime J Gail L and photogs: Manny D and Dennis Dale Henderson, I was advised because I don't look like my age I should be getting more commercial work. I'll have longetivity in the industry, as long as I take care of myself.
Besides, some of these jobs ask for ID and your true age will come out anyway. You look great. Don't lie.
Photographer
Michael Kirst
Posts: 3231
Los Angeles, California, US
Nemi wrote:
What agency is this? I don't think that has any relevance to the initial question or to the thread in which you wrote this response. I think one thing that people have to remember here is that, yes, there are lots of agencies out there. I am willing to bet that there is one that is right for you too. The OP never said Ford, Next or Wilhelmina. She just said 'agency'.
Just outta curiousity...what agency are you with?
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
rachelrose wrote:
Agencies "discriminate" all the time. Of course they do. My point was what the law states. Look it up for yourself.
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