Michael Kirst wrote:
I don't think that has any relevance to the initial question or to the thread in which you wrote this response.

Sure it does.  As we have noted so many times before, some agencies are "commercial" (or promotions) oriented, and don't care about age.  Others are "editorial fashion" oriented, and do care.  The type of agency (which can be determined by knowing what agency it is) is very relevant in determining whether or not age is, or should be, a factor.

That said, there is an easier way to get to the underlying question:  any agency that signs a 5'5" model isn't an "editorial fashion" agency - so age would not be that big a deal, or may not matter at all.

OC Girl wrote:
No one's looking for a "teen" model unless it's for porn.

Say what?

You specifically asked about "getting signed" to an agency.  Fashion agencies do in fact look for "teen" models all the time.  In New York many runway and editorial models are 16 or younger.

jonathan ledeux wrote:
whenever you lie on a contract it nullafies the paper, makes it no longer legally binding, Jonathan

Modeling jobs rarely involve contracts other than releases, and few of those reference age (other than being old enought to sign the release which, if you aren't, your agency does for you).  The same with a representation contract with an agency - it does not include any statement of age except the legal ability to sign a contract, which is what parents are for if the model is under 18. 

I don't see how your statement has any relevance to the question being dealt with.

TXPhotog wrote:
Sure it does.  As we have noted so many times before, some agencies are "commercial" (or promotions) oriented, and don't care about age.  Others are "editorial fashion" oriented, and do care.  The type of agency (which can be determined by knowing what agency it is) is very relevant in determining whether or not age is, or should be, a factor.

That said, there is an easier way to get to the underlying question:  any agency that signs a 5'5" model isn't an "editorial fashion" agency - so age would not be that big a deal, or may not matter at all.

I think you missed the point. I was responding to the fact that she was asking what agency she was with. What difference would that make unless she too was shopping for an agency? If she had stated a specific agency would that alone validate the accuracy of the initial statement? No.

I'm talking specifically about Katies response to Chandani on the previous page.....read ppl!

Aussie Guevara wrote:
I don't think you can appear to be 16 at all.

Chris Ross wrote:

Didn't mean to be snarky. I apoligize. From the images in her portfolio, because that's all I have ever seen of her, she would not pass as 16 in my mind.

OC Girl wrote:
Thank you guys for all your help.  You're right, honesty is the best policy.
I'd love to do JC Penney and Honda ads.

You'll probably make more money anyway.

Michael Kirst wrote:

I don't think that has any relevance to the initial question or to the thread in which you wrote this response. I think one thing that people have to remember here is that, yes, there are lots of agencies out there. I am willing to bet that there is one that is right for you too. The OP never said Ford, Next or Wilhelmina. She just said 'agency'.

Just outta curiousity...what agency are you with?

My comment was legit. I am not with an agency, as I am barely 5'0. I am curious as to what agency would take someone of her height.
MM is supposed to be a learning experience. If there are agencies out there taking on tiny people I damn sure want to know about them.

Michael Kirst wrote:
I'm talking specifically about Katies response to Chandani on the previous page.....read ppl!

Yes, I knew that.  Katie isn't shopping for an agency in Houston.  I read her question as asking for the same reason I pointed out:  knowing which agency lets you judge whether or not age should be thought to be a factor in getting signed.

TXPhotog wrote:
Say what?

You specifically asked about "getting signed" to an agency.  Fashion agencies do in fact look for "teen" models all the time.  In New York many runway and editorial models are 16 or younger.

Sorry.  I guess I wrote that wrong.  I meant that on MM, most of the castings are for photographers updating their portfolios.  Some shoots may be for stock, but I haven't seen one for advertising, such as a juniors clothing catalog.  As for the GWCs, they might be looking for a girl who'se legal and can do nudity but appear to be well under age.

Outside MM, and especially in California, the market to sell to teens and tweens is huge.  They spend their parents' money like there's no tomorrow.  In the real world, juniors modeling is big.  Runway models are usually quite young as well.  I know I'm too old for high fashion.  I don't have the look anyway.  Sorry for the confusion.

Matthew Bushey wrote:
Bottom line: if they want and can use you, they will -- your age will not affect that.

While that is true, first you have to get them to see you.  Some agencies will not see models who are over 19; others have an age 21 limit.  If you want to be seen, you lie about your age.  If you appear to be young enough, you get to the point where eventually you tell them the truth.

Matthew Bushey wrote:
If you did lie to an agency, they will find out either way (like you mentioned - W-9, D.L., etc.).

This keeps coming up.  I don't know why a model would give an agency a W-9 (agencies that I am familiar with don't ask for them, and I don't know why they would), but there is nothing on the W-9 that asks about age.

Matthew Bushey wrote:
But the repercussions of lieing will be much greater! Most agencies (especially reputable ones') are connected with other agencies and know lots of industry people. If you lie, and therefore disrespect someone at an agency, chances are very good that it will get around; and when that happens, time to find a new market (relatively far away!)

Not true.  People lie to agencies all the time.  It works or it doesn't.  If it doesn't, the agency certainly isn't going to feel so exercised about it that they would call anyone else and warn them. 

Telling a lie about height, stats and age is something that is done all the time in the industry.  The trick is knowing when to do it and when not to.  Agencies are good at that.

OC Girl wrote:
It's good to know they like 25 year olds.

I thought you said you weren't going to lie.

TXPhotog wrote:

Of course they do.  My point was what the law states.  Look it up for yourself.

I understand that is what the law states, but a modeling agency is based on looks and needs, so it is kind of hard to understand how they could apply that law. I mean the law basically says, you can't hire or fire somebody based on their looks, but i just don't see how that applies with a modeling agency.

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
I thought you said you weren't going to lie.

I'm not.  I just meant that it's nice to know I'm not too old.  There are two agencies that keep asking when I'm coming in.  They seem to have some interest.  If they change their mind, or if I go to other agencies' open calls and don't get signed, or even if I travel the world and come back in two years, it's nice to know that as long as I maintain my appearance, I can go back at 25 and still have a shot.

rachelrose wrote:
i just don't see how that applies with a modeling agency.

In New York City the law says that all "model agencies" have to be licensed as Talent Agencies by the Department of Consumer Affairs.  None of them are.

My point was not what model agencies actually do (I agree with you on that), but rather to an earlier statement alleging what the legal requirements were.  I am confident there is a way that the agencies can get around the requirements of the law I have quoted, just as there is in NYC.  I'm just not interested enough in the question to do the research.  Yes, they get around it.  That's enough.

Nemi wrote:

My comment was legit. I am not with an agency, as I am barely 5'0. I am curious as to what agency would take someone of her height.
MM is supposed to be a learning experience. If there are agencies out there taking on tiny people I damn sure want to know about them.

Maybe they wanted her because she's Indian and not because she's 5'5"

OC Girl wrote:
So you don't fill out a W-9?

How do you do your taxes if they can't send you a 1099?

You tell them your name, address and social security number.  I've never known an employer to ask for a W-9 either, and they manage to send W-2s.

Passing over that, the point remains:  a W-9 has nothing to do with age.

TXPhotog wrote:

Just the opposite.

On average, a 16 year old will experience a life change in about two years, as she graduates from high school and gets on with whatever is next for her.  Teens are a very turbulent time, full of transitions and changes.

The average professional lifespan of a signed NYC fashion model is six weeks.

By 26 people are more likely to be stable (or more stable).  A commercial agency often has models that are with it for decades, and most of them started in their 20s.

Fashion agencies want young faces because the fashion industry wants young faces.  That's it.

really, so then 21 is not too old?
i've been hearing that alot!!!!!

Ma-Shyrra wrote:
im so glad she asked this.  I shot with a big time photog once that actually told me to market myself as 16.  ever since then i kinda put modeling in the back seat.  Cause i had absolutly no idea how i was going to go about doing that without lying.  There is a total difference between 16-23.  Would that mean i was gonna be around a bunch if 16 year olds all day when shooting.  BUt i have since put the whole thing behind me and gotten back out there.  I doubt ill ever get signed, being 5'6...haha, but i have come to the realization i should pursue modeling as my HOBBIE and not as my CAREER Focus.

At least you have GREAT images by a variety of photographers in a variety of outfits SOME of which you look very young in and most you just look downright sexy in. And you have no illusions to boot. I vote you as "more likely to succeed" ... but definately as a commercial model! And I can see 16-23 easily for you BTW. NOT the OP however. For her more like 25-30.
Mike

Michael Kirst wrote:
If she had stated a specific agency would that alone validate the accuracy of the initial statement? No.

I'm talking specifically about Katies response to Chandani on the previous page.....read ppl!

Sure it would...if it were for example John Robert Powers.
Mike

OC Girl wrote:

I'm not.  I just meant that it's nice to know I'm not too old.  There are two agencies that keep asking when I'm coming in.  They seem to have some interest.  If they change their mind, or if I go to other agencies' open calls and don't get signed, or even if I travel the world and come back in two years, it's nice to know that as long as I maintain my appearance, I can go back at 25 and still have a shot.

PPS an "agency" calling you PROBABLY means they want your money. If you go don't take any money or CCs and you can't fall into thier web of veiled promises. REAL agencies neither charge signing fees nor demand you use their phjotograper. 2 of the 3 quick signs of a rip off. the third being they are calling you to find out when you are coming in. Serious, you are nice looking and not short. But you are not the type of model an agency would "chase". Few are.
Good luck, I like to see fellow OC'ers out there working!
Mike

rachelrose wrote:
I mean the law basically says, you can't hire or fire somebody based on their looks, but i just don't see how that applies with a modeling agency.

it says nothing of the sort. it says: artist's race, color, creed, sex, national origin, religion, or handicap.

basically, you cannot refuse to represent someone because of their race, but you can refuse if you don;t like their 'look.' race does not equal appearance.

DigitalCMH wrote:

Maybe they wanted her because she's Indian and not because she's 5'5"

Maybe, but I would like to hear it from her rather than guessing.