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How do I find willing models
I have been on this site for a few months now mostly as a lurker trying to learn from other people and their work. I am not just a GWC (at least I don't think so). I am serious about my photography. I have contacted models here on MM that are in my area and state in their profile that they are just starting out and are looking for TFP. After some converstaion back and forth they just stop communicating. After having been kind, polite, sincere and helpful, I just don't get it. These are usually models that are just starting out (like I am in "people" photography) that have cell phone self portraits in their portfolios. I am no pro at this, but i think I know how to produce a good photo. Has anyone else faced this problem? How can I get beyond this? Jun 26 06 10:04 pm Link rohypnol (and no one take this too seriously!) Jun 26 06 10:06 pm Link If you have been shooting for 20 years as your profile says you should have a good knowledge of how to work a camera. People are not so different from products only bigger. Grab a friend or two and get your port filled out with some of your images. Even include a few product images. You only have about three models in your current portfolio. Also look at that models say the want for TFP and need not what you think they need. And yes the worst looking portfolios have the silly girls who want to most money who knows why. Jun 26 06 10:25 pm Link You're targeting a group of people who come on sometimes seriously, often on a lark, and you're hoping for something good to pop up for free. Don't expect an orchid to pop up quickly in that patch of weeds, no matter how many seeds you throw. With your approach, it'll take time and it's a numbers game. Go through enough rejection until an acceptance comes through. And then you go out and hope that you're on your game. I paid my first few models in order to get some decent shots to build up some credibility. I figure that any club has a certain level of dues. Jun 26 06 10:33 pm Link I'm rather new to all of this myself. But, as someone else already mentioned, shoot friends, co-workers, or even relatives if you think you can do them justice. Keep up the communications with the models in your area - eventually you'll find some that will follow through with a shoot. The whole highs and lows of scheduling shoots with internet models has been well documented on the Forums here. Best of luck! Jun 26 06 10:42 pm Link Avoid the back-and-forth. Contact the model, propose the shoot, be specific with genre, set ideas and location, propose a date, and ask if that date and time works. Yes or no. If you get a yes, you're done. Any more back-and-forth just creates points for failure. I go back-and-forth with models with whom I've worked before, or who are professionals. That works great, and we have very productive conversations. For everyone else, they contact me expressing interest, I pitch an idea, and that's that. Then, once you get your yes, you can come back afterwards and complain about the no-show. But that's a different post. Jun 26 06 10:47 pm Link Iona Lynn wrote: Iona, Jun 26 06 10:50 pm Link Just say please... and if that doesn't work, say pretty please. It works for me. Jun 26 06 10:56 pm Link I sincerely believe that you get what you pay for in the modeling/photography business. If you pay nothing you take the chance of getting...that's right...nothing. Paying a professional model at first may indeed take some $$ out of your pocket, but on the other hand, you may be able to learn something from someone who makes a living as a model while you are shooting them. Consider it taking a class in the relationship between model and photographer. Then when you are the master as opposed to the apprentice, people will be paying you! Good luck to you  Jun 26 06 10:59 pm Link RCB, here's what the problem is, your portfolio is lacking. It's bland. No this isn't a insult to you, but why many will not work with you. No not all, but in many cases, you'll find out that it is true. Try to bring something more creative to your port. Even if you have 4 images up with something more creative, that's better than having 20 and not having anything that will attract that model or models. I would take Iona's advice on borrowing some friends. But you want to take it to the next level when you shoot your friends. Treat tham as if they are a part of a job that you are getting paid for from a client. I'm not speaking on assumptions. I'm speaking from understanding. I've been successful with casting calls, contacting the models myself on here and alot of them emaili me on here wanting to work with me. Heck, many have emailed me through my primary email. Just look at your work and see what is working and what isn't. Make the changes from there. and I gaurentee you that you'll get more models wanting to work with you than you can handle. When I had lack of my work on here, I didn't get that many. But with school forcing me to shoot, it helped me to build up on my work and put out some good work.. And the funny thing is, this isn't my best. There is always room for improvement. Jun 26 06 11:01 pm Link Christopher Ambler wrote: I agree about avoiding the back-and-forth emails, but I have a slightly different list of information I recommend giving upon contact: Jun 26 06 11:06 pm Link Mia Ferreri wrote: Nah, Jun 26 06 11:06 pm Link Legacys 7 wrote: Please don't tell me what I do and do not know. Jun 26 06 11:12 pm Link RCB Photography wrote: You've gotten a lot of good evidence so far. Jun 26 06 11:21 pm Link Experimental Photoworks wrote: hold on Yosemite Sam, Jun 26 06 11:25 pm Link Experimental Photoworks wrote: *scratches head* Jun 26 06 11:28 pm Link RCB Photography wrote: So you walk into your favorite French /Italian or whatever restuarant and tell the Chef you really love his house specialty and could you please have the recipe so you can make it at home > What do you think his response will be? ( unless of course he has already published one of those celeb chef cookbooks ) Jun 26 06 11:35 pm Link It comes with the territory, it is best to pay a little and work with a pro if possible. I scheduled two shoots today, because I know at least one would cancel as they were both TFP's. Well today, both canceled. One just happened to have "retired" since our last email a day ago and the other I never heard from after we scheduled. I have seen this time and time again. Skilled models who shoot more, have credibility to maintain. The others, well they seem to just want to be "models" without paying their dues. A stellar portfolio will get more TFP shoots, but paying allows you to experiment more as you are shooting for yourself only. Jun 26 06 11:41 pm Link I don't know how much of this will help you and it will probablly even upset some people. First your portfolio is all family style portraits. If the business you are after is standard family style work, than you're off to a great start. But I suspect that you are fishing in the wrong pond. MM models aren't looking for portraits. IE: you have the wrong bait. So, the first question that you should be asking is - what do I mean by people photography? What is your vision of the work that you want to do? But wait, your profile states that you want to do glamour/fashion. Those are very different types of photogrpahy in themselves. Fashion is about selling closte - the model is put a necessary rack on which to carry the clothes around and make the clothes look good. None of that on your profile. The wrong bait. Glamour is about making the person look good (generally sexy - showing off her - clothing, environment, etc is about making her/him lood good. Again, you have the wrong bait. Dude, you've got to get the bait and than you have to fish in the right pond. I'm not suprised that you're having trouble finding models with portraits (as good as they are). You need to get some bait (sample pictures in the style that you want to shoot.). Before you can get the models. It is sort of like the princess and the frog. She has to kiss the stinkly, slimy, smelly frog in order to get the prince. You have to kiss the frogs (I mean the models that nobody wants to shoot). Here come the ironic part, you have to do so in such a way that they can't help but look good. Good enought that the next level of model can visualize herself in your work. So that you can climb up to the next rung and so on and so forth. Call it paying your dues, kissing toads - whatever. (in fairness, some models get to go through this process too - IE work with the toady photographers to get the attention of the prince photographers. This is the slowest, but cheapest way. Fortunately, there are shortcuts. Many of us remember well being where you were and aren't afraid to help. Find a good close photographer and assist him. I have one right now that I'm coaching. Learn all he can. Look at work and reverse engineer it - get all the information you can - that is the cheap way, but slower method. Get that, we only get time and money and you trade one for the other. A faster albeit more expensive way it to take some seminars - I'm not going to advocate any, but my favortie seminar is Robert R. Sanders - my hero. Well that gets you the skill and the eye (you have to train the eye to see what you want so that you can command the body to execute the shot). Now back to models. I sort of mentioned the shoot the frogs approach - hmmmm. I don't like kissing frogs. So I found some local photoshoots - the great thing about them was that they did all the model finding and all I had to do was show up and shoot - granted it cost me like 60 bucks and a little more some release's. But, what I got was a couple of rungs up the frog ladder. And I had the right bait. During this shoot, I paid attention to the models, I was professional, no gawking, making sure they were comfortable, making sure I took the shots they wanted first, etc. Once they had their shots, I took my shot. I gave them prints (film than). Actually, the camera store where I bought my first camera, had a follow on class. And they let us shoot with strobes - what a thrill - and with a real killer model. WOW, Instant bait. I asked them what they wanted shot and scheduled aftershoots. Pretty soon they were referring friends and off we go. I can't stress the professional part. Do what you say and over deliver - always. No excuses. I followed up with the best models and the rest is sort of history. Along the way, I have hired models to shoot something that I didn't have (IE - I bought some bait). In terms of dealing with the models. Up front - total honesty. Don't go back and forth - Some of the previous posters advocated sending one idea. I send several. I call it the spaghetti approach. Though a bunch of ideas out and something will stick. Even when models just have the cell pics, look at the style, complement them on it and explain how you can do it in such a way that will make them look good. (provide a sample image - bait). If they aren't biting on the plain white worm, try the sparkling pink one, or the battery operated beatle or the fluffy fly. Pay attention to what works. Which means keep trying different things. Watch what works. When you get one and yes it is a bit of a numbers game. Talk to her. Alway positive words. And browse the threads. Most of this has to already be there and better said than I have. I wish you well - and I'll send you a private message. Jun 27 06 12:55 am Link I think what Stevenson said was right. Your photos are average family shots. We don't know what your product stuff was like, but it didn't transfer to the people work. You can do better on that. Also models on internet sites are flakey so you have to go through alot of them anyways. Say "hello" to Mary Ellen Dunbar for me. Jun 27 06 01:29 am Link RCB, Come to the Center for New Age Photography's Studio in Lawrence Mass. (www.CFNAP.com) I teach the Studio Lighting Class for the owner. Most of the stuff in my port was taken there at the CFNAP studio. I also started out at a commercial product photographer. Still do some of that too I have been shooting people for the last two years. I hooked up with CFNAP and another NH photgrapher (Mike Brochu) and learned his lighting style to add to my own skill set. Any time Mike needs a hand with a shoot, he calls me to go. If you need to talk more, PM me. Dave Mullins Jun 27 06 04:31 am Link Lexi Evans wrote: lol Jun 27 06 04:39 am Link a) Take photos of family and friends, slowly improving your skills until you've got a portfolio that makes people want to pose for you, or, b) Hire professional models to help you build your portfolio. Jun 27 06 04:45 am Link Go to a good Photoshoot where you can photograph several good models. This will enable you to expand your portfolio quickly and gain experience shooting models. It's worth it even if you have to travel a long distance to get there. Jun 27 06 05:31 am Link Dave Mullins wrote: Mike Brochu does awesome work!! Nice variety in your images as well. Jun 27 06 05:40 am Link Farenell Photography wrote: Iona is multitalented. She is shooting web content for that website. She also posed about 100 images in the new book "Digital Boudior Photography" by John G. Blair. Jun 27 06 05:43 am Link You might want to take a look at this thread that I started a while back: https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=51726 Since you are still building your portfolio, its pretty important that you don't approach a model raving over what you can do for her. Because frankly, at this point without having something to back it up, she's going to laugh at you. Really, I feel its important to never approach a model and criticize her work and then tout your own. It smacks of an ego and is a huge turnoff. Simply complement her on her look, and express interest in adding her look to your book. Be honest, genuine and open. Find some way to compensate the model as well, lunch, money for travel, $50.00 if you can swing it... SOMETHING that lets the model know that you sincerely appreciate her time and effort to work with you. Others have also offered really good advice, so I won't press the issue any more. Good luck. Jun 27 06 09:33 am Link RCB Photography wrote: money talks. Jun 27 06 09:36 am Link you will at first have to pay some experience models who give you fine poses for your porfolio and profile-when other models see you can do fine work-they will be contacting me/therefore you will no longer have to ask them to shoot with you-be selective in the models you work with. Jun 27 06 09:46 am Link Daniela V wrote: My experience with Model Mayhem and other Internet modeling sites is that money scares away models faster than nudity will. When I post for TFP nudity I get more responses than when I advertised paid clothed modeling. In my profile I write that I sometimes hire models and sometimes offer TFP, and I get more inquiries from models looking for TFP shoots than for paid shoots. Jun 27 06 09:47 am Link Intresting that so many miss things. This photographer is getting a reponse from models but after a bit things stop. The ideal is to firm up a date and close the deal. As far as getting better images, I guess it can be a good thing to have s few of those cheesy glamour type images that are so many of the photography ports here. You could include the wonderful school girl shot or model in miniskirt at beach or the ever creative model with thong on with butt in the air. These seem to impress models and will get you noticed. I think the first thing to do is identify what type of images you want to shoot. However models are somewhat intrested they just aren't following through. This is a big problem even with some of our more expirenced and well known shooters. It has less to do with the so called quality of your work then with the lack of serious models on this site. Jun 27 06 09:51 am Link phcorcoran wrote: Thats interesting. I wonder if others have had similar experiences. I got my best models at a major photoshoot with several private shoots on the side. Jun 27 06 09:52 am Link phcorcoran wrote: I think the photographer should give offering compensation a shot just to see what works for him best. If it doesn't work, then fine...but I will always stand by the idea that you get what you pay for. Jun 27 06 09:59 am Link phcorcoran wrote: I'm glad you're able to be successful! I personally don't have the time to shoot TFP right now. I have a six week trip breathing down my neck and I've got to have all my ducks in a row and have money saved up so that I don't go into debt while I'm gone... wheeee... stress is fun... NOT!! Jun 27 06 10:06 am Link Randy is kinda cute, shoot with her again but be creative this time. Jun 27 06 10:10 am Link Daniela V wrote: Jun 27 06 10:11 am Link One more thing... Although I believe in paying good models to shoot, in your case I wouldn't suggest it. Here's why, you have to identify the images you want to shoot and show. If your focus is getting models to shoot with you and at some point even pay you then its important to know what they like. However if you are intrested in a more personal style one that reflects you and your art then show those images. Paying a model right now based on what you have won't get you better images just maybe a better looking model. Some of the models here have some cool creative ideals and are so full of energy and passion that they act as a muse to a photographer. Just paying a pretty girl with a nice figure means nothing unless you've got the ideals or concepts to go along with her. So pratice first with friends and models you can get to shoot. At some point if you feel that a paid model will improve your port then by all means pay but if it means more of what you have then don't do it. Jun 27 06 10:16 am Link Tony Lawrence wrote: Way too true! But before the models who are participating in this discussion start using their fingernails in an attempt to get me singing in a higher octave ... keep in mind, the serious ones participate in these discussions ... and then there are the ones who : Jun 27 06 10:26 am Link RCB Photography wrote: Your problem is you're cheap and don't want to pay models... Jun 27 06 10:29 am Link NC17 wrote: I don't make my living from photographing models. Not all of us are fashion photographers. I make money from portrait and event photography. Most of the models I hire are for nude art print sales. Jun 27 06 10:30 am Link |
