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help me or hurt me???
I hate starting threads, but I need to vent and I'd also like some advice. I got into it today with a "manager" at a new start up model management company. He asked me to do still modeling at a local fashion event for a boutique owner. He said that the pay was going to be a pathetic $50 but they negotiated for use of the clothing instead (no pay) (lingerie...ewww!) We don't get to keep anything but we get "exposure." They are going to put the shots (begin sarcastic tone here) in a couple magazines and some important people from Detroit will be there. Perhaps I'm having a bad day and I'm over reacting but I got mad. I said I'm tired of doing these events and things for free, and that someone needs to pay me $100 and I don't care if its her or him. He said I'm bogue, and that I'm trying to take advantage and that no one is getting paid. I said that's the problem around here and I don't understand how no one ever seems to have a budget for models and that if he was really a good manager, he'd be getting his girls money. At this point it is the principle behind it all, as $100 is not a lot of money. He said I'm messing up his deal and that I should do it as a favor and please, baby, please, blah blah blah. He said he's new, I told him I'M NOT. I told him she picked me, she wants me, she can pay me or replace me. I'm heated but at the same time I don't want to lose out on a good opportunity. I don't want to be at home sitting on my bum, being forgotten about. Then again, that's what they always say...exposure, exposure, exposure. Is puttin my foot down going to hurt me or help me get away from the "free" rut, and most importantly, is it beer:thirty yet??? Jun 14 06 02:13 pm Link No Budget... says everything. Beware the middleman !! Jun 14 06 02:17 pm Link This happens way too much as far as Im concerned. I feel like people are constantly trying to coerce models/photogs/muas etc into working for much less than they are worth. You are so gorgeous and experienced and talented that they are crazy to even think about arguing. No one is going to give you a perfect answer to your question, you just have to weigh the pros and cons. Is this really going to be that much exposure? Is it really worth your time? Are you really that interested? Do you deserve better? Jun 14 06 02:18 pm Link Fons Studio wrote: Especially if it's supposed to be dealt with through a manager. Jun 14 06 02:19 pm Link YOU should be able to say no. The proof is in the pudding. I help people that can help me. If "manager guy" is of no help to you, then you deserve to be paid. Jun 14 06 02:20 pm Link They have some budget. They just didn't allocate any for models because they know many are free. And many are. So the question is, will demanding pay (and very likely being replaced) hurt me or will it help. Jun 14 06 02:20 pm Link if it was that much of a good opportunity they would be able to afford to pay you especially since $100 isnt that much. if you decide not to do it im sure you will have a lot more opportunities, your a pretty model. dont let people talk you in to doing things. although you are the one who has met them and are the only one who knows how good this opportunity is, just make sure you make the right desition, hope this helps  Jun 14 06 02:20 pm Link This isn't a "free" sort of gig. You should be paid. What useful "exposure" could this possibly bring you? Jun 14 06 02:21 pm Link Angel Tara wrote: How could it hurt you? You're making $0. If you do the gig, you make $0. If you decline, you make $0. Jun 14 06 02:22 pm Link It is tuff out there. Everyone is cutting every cost they can. Here in MI I think it's even worse than the rest of the nation. With my clients, I am making up for it in quantity (by increasing my efficiency) and having invested in equipment better suited to improving my output. I also got some other side benifits that they can take advantage of. How this relates to models, I don't know, But you do have to get more competetive - somehow. Jun 14 06 02:23 pm Link yes, it's always hard to make that decision to move away from giving it away (i.e., freebies, even for "exposure") to billing for one's time & work; has to be calculated as best possible to make even a semi-smooth transition ... in the meantime, are you currently signed with an agency? if so, what kind of calls are they sending you out on? do you have a good working relationship with the booker(s)? best wishes! don't give up! Frank (FML) Jun 14 06 02:23 pm Link I was watching PBS and they were following some young agency represented model in NY, and two of them did Fashion Week and didnt get paid.. Most of what the agency found them was for exposure, hoping they caught the eye of those who would be able to use them for paying gigs.. So sometimes you have to bite the bullet and hope there are these there that can offer you gigs, because you KNOW they wont see you sitting in your living room on your bum watching seinfeld reruns.. Jun 14 06 02:23 pm Link Hurt at first. I went through it with videos. AND YES there are so many girls that will do it for free, but one Angel Tara, and she doesnt have to. Most of the girls that will do it for free are trying to get where you are. You dont need MOST of the no budget gigs, and the few that you do need, you'll take for free and be content with the exposure. It will hurt at first but people will begin to respect your time and only call when its a great opportunity or money involved. Jun 14 06 02:26 pm Link Angel Tara wrote: This business (like any other) is driven by money. Everyone wants to get paid. And most of us agree that the client is the one doing the paying. 100.00$ is chump change when you consider what it costs to put an ad in a magazine ( I know of no magazines that will barter for clothes), or print thousands of glossy promo flyers or cards. Will you miss an opportunity ? well all i can say is look at this guy's track record. Jun 14 06 02:28 pm Link UIPHOTOS wrote: Provided the opportunity ANY under-discovered model (including myself) would do FASHION WEEK for free. Jun 14 06 02:30 pm Link Christopher Ambler wrote: I understand. But I guess how it could hurt me is that models are forgotten about pretty quickly. This market around here is apparently so cheap that much of the work is free. The benefit of getting out there, even for no pay, is to hopefully create some sort of name and local recognition for yourself. The problem is the demand you get is just for more free stuff. Jun 14 06 02:30 pm Link Angel Tara you are a smart model. All you will miss out on by turning down this free assignment is more opportunities for them to use you for free. By the way, based on your description of the usage for this job, even $100 would be quite a bargain for the client. You have absolutely nothing to lose by turning down a free assignment, and perhaps if they are smart, you will get a counter offer to pay you for this job. Believe me, they would be much better off to go ahead and pay YOU for this assignment, rather than picking someone else just because they will do it for free. If more models were as wise as you are, they wouldn't be able to get away with taking advantage of models like this. Jun 14 06 02:32 pm Link Angel Tara wrote: nothing wrong with putting your foot down... they will figure it out after they ahve a bunch of girls they dont want running around displaying their clothes and no one is buying. Next event they will budget for models. THey might not come get you if you demand the money to harchly but it will start to change trends if enough quality models will demand payment for events Jun 14 06 02:33 pm Link Darling, you don't need to associate with jerks. Max Jun 14 06 02:35 pm Link FML-Photography wrote: Thanks! Jun 14 06 02:37 pm Link plus if he was anytype of manager worth having he'd go head and drop you the $100 like an advance because from what he is saying he has you on the way to all the exposure you need Jun 14 06 02:38 pm Link Angel, They get models for free cause they KNOW there are those that will do it for nothing, and gladly. Th eimages WILL be used in diff. publications to procure business/revenue for the company in question. So they ARE using your likenesses to earn a profit, which is why they are in business in the first place. Advertising budgets are a cost of doing business. $100 is not too much to ask, and I guarantee you that if you do it for free, they'll expect you to do it for nothing in the future, or replace you with another hungry model who will blindly do it for nothing. At some point, "exposure" means nothing, especially when others ARE paying the costs & are getting paid from doing business, but feel YOU should do them a favor for nothing in return. You've paid your dues, it's time to get paid. Michael Jun 14 06 02:39 pm Link Angel Tara wrote: you had that i dont wanna miss out itis Jun 14 06 02:42 pm Link it's not worth your time or energy. look, I've tried to be nice about this but maybe I'm just not being understood ... everybody should stop working for free. there, I said it. Jun 14 06 02:50 pm Link Thanks everyone. I was just mad because he said I was wrong, and that I'm trying to take advantage of people. I was especially mad when he said initially there was pay, but he renegotiated it for the benefit of his company (to hell with the girls). I need a new game plan. I need to be like Cristal.   thanks again everyoneJun 14 06 02:50 pm Link I'm confused about this "manager" that you are discussing. He sounds incompetent to me. A better question might be why bother screwing around with him? It looks like you are making the right decision. "Exposure" is worth exactly as much as the amount on the check that comes with it, in things like this. It's your agency's job to get you exposure where it counts. Doing freebie stuff like this is next to worthless - it just lets them make money off you. You always have the right to turn down a modeling job offer, and turning down a worthless freebie should be, as you say, a no-brainer. Jun 14 06 02:56 pm Link It's your time; Value it as you will. A free "gig" is something that you want to do - not something you need to be dragged to go. There is opportunity everywhere you turn. If one free "gig" was going to change your life you'd be too busy to post this question now. At your level of experience you should probably hit your niche where you believe you can strive. You'll know that better than someone trying to make themselves look good on your dime. Jun 14 06 02:57 pm Link TXPhotog wrote: This is some mess I got involved in because of a friend, and I trusted him that it was something good, only to find out that it is just a few clowns trying to start a company who just thought that it looked easy. Jun 14 06 03:03 pm Link Angel, baby, noooo, No no no. OK here's the thing. EXPOSURE is highly overrated. Unless you're in a national spot or publication, or in a niché market, exposure gets you nowhere. You'll be a talented model working for free everytime the phone rings. Most independent or poorly represented models got their break by stopping and saying "NO". You have to stand your ground. Why waste your time. You could spend that time searching for paying jobs, networking, practicing your skill and nurturing your current business relationships. Show peole the product (ie.g. you) and make them want to know why you're worth being paid. A popular model here (for ex.) Tomika Skanes was working the same jobss a other models right before her ansition but SHE was getting paid. Why? She's worth nothing less. Then she's respected, she delivers and people realize that this model is AN INVESTMENT. With her on board they're a hit. Without her, they're just another ad agency or production company or promter, whatever... At some point you have to recog ize that you are a professional and that you do this as an career. You stood your ground. You GOT EXPOSURE...as much as you'll get by making people remember you. They now know that to get quality experience and not just another pretty face they have to pay. Also, any company that only wants a pretty face isn't going to gain you any exposure. As a matter of fact, fashion week. Do you know how many girls work that event. Most of them are never remembered. Because it''s about the designers. Don't get me wrong, it's a great thing to be iand you have enough freedom to spice yourself up and get noticed. Plus, I doubt that if you get into fashioweek that you'll work for free. How much you'd get paid? Another discussion... Anything you do, find a way to set yourself apart...especially on a free assingment that guarantees a benefit to you. That is what will make you. Exposure is nothing if people can't focus on YOU. And this events has nothing of the such. Ex. You do a commercial for AT&T and the only thing in its the back of your head. At least you get paid well.. If at this event you were headlined or featured then I'd say it gains some notariety for you. Then you'd have to measure how much to be worth it. But, just mixing in with the girls and everyone is under the same routine this gets you absolutely nothing. Modeling is a part o adverting. How long are you going to advertise other people for free? You're not loosing out. There's better/more productive things you can do with you time. Don't get upset, get UP! Now come give me a hug. Crazy-Evil... ::fades-to-black:: Jun 14 06 03:27 pm Link What the hell is the "manager" getting out of this that it's worth HIS time or effort anyway.. Assuming %10 cut.. That nets him a whopping $5 bucks a model? The event would need 10 models for him to make as much nothing as you are.. And you're ready to walk out on $50.. Which begs the question, why does he care? It sounds like you're getting scammed and he's keeping a bigger chunk of some deal for himself.. FLEE! Jun 14 06 03:35 pm Link Crazy-Evil Angelus wrote: There it is, in a nutshell Jun 14 06 03:40 pm Link WG Rowland wrote: He says no one is getting paid, and then played the "I can't believe you think I would scam you" card. When I told him that they will not get an established model for nothing, he called me cocky. Jun 14 06 03:58 pm Link Cristal Steverson wrote: Agreed, if they have no budget like they say they can work with new no budget models and when those girls donât show up and screw up the show then they will re think their marketing budget strategy. It looks like this is a job that is way below your talent level. Jun 14 06 03:58 pm Link Angel Tara wrote: Nuff said. Walk away. Jun 14 06 05:20 pm Link TXPhotog wrote: I think everyone is getting confused here thinking that she is talking about a model manager. I may be reading it wrong, but I think she is talking about the manager who works for the clothing company. My impression he was like the store manager, product manager, advertising manager, etc. Jun 14 06 05:26 pm Link Angel Tara wrote: The most meaningless word on the Internet for modeling is "Exposure." What is "Exposure" and how the heck does it relate to a career? Jun 14 06 05:31 pm Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: Thanks Alan. However I was speaking of a model manager. Sorry I was unclear. Jun 14 06 05:53 pm Link Angel Tara wrote: Hmm... next time he calls, take the phone, hopefully cordless, into the bathroom. At some point in the conversation, say 'hold on a second'... then flush the toilet... run the faucet for a bit, and then restart he conversation. Jun 14 06 05:57 pm Link Mikel Featherston wrote: LOL, that's funny. Jun 14 06 07:11 pm Link Angel Tara wrote: You are not mean, you are just allergic to stupidity. Jun 14 06 07:13 pm Link |
