NC17 wrote:
I really want to know honest answers to this. Because frankly, I am just baffled.

I first came into contact with this person by scanning the search for my area, he was relatively new, and I dropped him a tag and a few comments into his port to say welcome and hello, being the nice person that I am.

Then I recieved a note that read as follows:

"hey nc-

nice nips. would like to see more.

thanks,

(name with held to protect...er... well. Name is just with held)"

Ok, so males (I can't single out photographers here, even though he was... this is more of a male thing...) I want to know if this kind of approach ever works with a lady? Has any guy used this type of um, come on (? for lack of a better word...?) and had a lady reveal more? Does this ever work? Or am I just the strange one that finds this type of approach to be quite a turn off.


And ladies, I would like to know if any of you would respond positively and give him what he wants to see. Are there any of you that would show him more images?

I am very curious to know how this kind of a situation would play out amongst others. I certainly don't appreciate this kind of approach, its pretty crude in my opinion, and I find it lacking in simple respect.

Opinions welcome!

I would write back right away and definately show him more!

Any girl with class would see that he's a complete keeper who's obviously just interested in getting a look at the goodies before making a decision.

I think that you just have no clue as to how a gentleman REALLY acts, what would you rather him say? Something as impolite as "You have a wonderful port", or maybe "You have woderful eyes"? Of course not! Only a sleeze would say such things.

A real man asks for what he wants.

Catriona wrote:
Okay, seriously...everything you said was so right on. What makes men think such an approach will be successful?

Because time and time again, it is successful.  Through the years of watching people, I have seen MUCH TO MY SURPRISE, this approach work with a certain type of guy and a certain class of girl.

I have to agree with Nemi (I am now such a fan of yours!): when she suggests that your name and flirtatious bio may attract this kind of boy. I guarentee you he's had success with this before.

And NC17!  What's with: "I have ... a very naughty NC17 rated center. Try me...you'll like. I Promise."  What type of person do you think will be attracted to a naughty near X rated center?

How can you put this out and then wonder why you seem to have attracted the flies?

Nemi wrote:
You'll catch more cooch with porn than nuns.

Bravo!  LOL.

Daguerre wrote:
Because time and time again, it is successful.  Through the years of watching people, I have seen MUCH TO MY SURPRISE, this approach work with a certain type of guy and a certain class of girl.

I have to agree with Nemi (I am now such a fan of yours!): when she suggests that your name and flirtatious bio may attract this kind of boy. I guarentee you he's had success with this before.

And NC17!  What's with: "I have ... a very naughty NC17 rated center. Try me...you'll like. I Promise."  What type of person do you think will be attracted to a naughty near X rated center?

How can you put this out and then wonder why you seem to have attracted the flies?

Agreed.  It's like e-mail spam.  They do it because enough of a percentage of recipients respond to make it profitable.
There ARE women who will respond to it.
And also agreed that, double standard tho it may be, naming yourself after a movie rating that implies sexually explicit material, and flirting with people in what's supposed to be your professional environment WILL attract people who will think that sort of comment will evoke a positive response.
And as for your double standard, YOU can get away with friendly flirting on your page.
If *I*, as a male photograoher did it, it would get me branded as not only unprofessional but as some sort of creep and maybe dangerous.
Guys who flirt with models around here get 6 kinds of crap about it.
I certainly wouldn't think well of one who did.
So the standard's not so double after all.

And besides, in non-professional environments it's not a double standard, either.
If a guy is out at a club being friendly & playfully flirtatious with a number of women, he's trying to get LAID.  If one of the women he was doing it with came up & said "It looks like you have a nice cock, I'd like to see more," he'd respond & probably try to have sex with her.
So when a guy sees a woman who goes out & behaves that way he assumes that she, like him, is looking to get laid, and approaches her as such.
There IS no double standard.
The double standard comes from women wanting guys to court them & be sweet & act like gentlemen or risk being labelled a**holes, but at the same time those women want to be able to go out & tease & flirt and lead a guy on but be seen as sweet & innocent and not have the guys actually try to follow it up.
It's some sort of twisted idea of empowering femal sexuality at the expense of male sexuality.
And that is a double standard, and not one men are responsible for.

Catriona wrote:
Replying to Daguerre, that seems like the old virgin/whore dichotomy to me... On the one hand, a woman should be able to express her sexuality freely and be respected for it; I suspect that a male model whose port was full of nude shots and whose profile contained sexy chat wouldn't get these kinds of leering comments. (Or at least not from women.) At the same time, it's still expected that any woman who actually *does* express that sexuality is "asking for" or "deserving" of creepy unwanted attention. Honestly, though, how many models, no matter how chaste their images, can truly say they *never* get guys making crass comments, here or elsewhere? Implying that it's NC's fault for having such a provocative profile is absurd; the pervy photog I mentioned earlier in the thread has no idea that I even do nude modeling, and he still oozes all over me every time he sees me. If she toned down her portfolio, she might get fewer comments like this - but then again, she might not, and it's not really fair to expect her to curtail her own expression to avoid harassment.

*launches into full-blown feminist diatribe*

*...or not*

:::Stands up to applaude:::

Catriona wrote:
Replying to Daguerre, that seems like the old virgin/whore dichotomy to me... On the one hand, a woman should be able to express her sexuality freely and be respected for it; I suspect that a male model whose port was full of nude shots and whose profile contained sexy chat wouldn't get these kinds of leering comments. (Or at least not from women.) At the same time, it's still expected that any woman who actually *does* express that sexuality is "asking for" or "deserving" of creepy unwanted attention. Honestly, though, how many models, no matter how chaste their images, can truly say they *never* get guys making crass comments, here or elsewhere? Implying that it's NC's fault for having such a provocative profile is absurd; ...

Catriona, I would suggest to you a few:

1. You are confusing the expression of sexuality with the expression of one's profession.  Are you here to express your sexuality or foster a professional reputation?  You can not often do both.  It has been tried before and only very rarely does it ever work.

2.  You seem to be saying that NC is free to express her sexuality, but Nipsboy is not allowed to express his?  That's a bit far fetched! (DISCLAIMER: I STILL DON'T LIKE NIPSBOY's COMMENT).

3.  Nipsboy is at fault for his own comments, but I'm suggesting that we should all be wary and understand that there are forums for expressing one's sexuality-- And Mayhem ain't it!

SKPhoto wrote:
Or maybe he meant hips, h is just above n on the keyboard.

Right, same thing with guys and their ducks.

VirtuaMike wrote:

Right, same thing with guys and their ducks.

Don't get me started talking about my duck.

Catriona wrote:
... and quite another to imply that she deserves or should expect to be harassed for adopting the tone that she does.

She expresses hers, he expresses his-- both are probably inappropriate.  But I find it interesting that you believe I implied what you wrote.  A guy that's proud of his duck and wants to see some more nips is not harrassment-- its just poor taste!  And I don't believe she should expect it.  I'm just not surprised that she got it!

Mikel Featherston wrote:

I think it is less about gratuitous sex, and more about explicit sex...

The real difference is that if it's violent sex, it gets an R rating, but if the woman looks like she enjoys it, it's NC-17. 

Brian Diaz wrote:
The real difference is that if it's violent sex, it gets an R rating, but if the woman looks like she enjoys it, it's NC-17. 

Ha, so true!

Yuck.  Maybe he meant to say "pics."  He probably feels very embarassed.
Or he's just a douche.  :0).

LOL.
Well said.

Daguerre wrote:
How can you put this out and then wonder why you seem to have attracted the flies?

Because it hasn't "attracted so many flies." This is the very first time I have gotten a rude comment such as this. Everyone else has been quite lovely, males and females alike.

As I mentioned before I am NOT upset that I got the comment. I am simply trying to figure out *why* someone makes such a comment and expects a return from it. A few people have gone on to explain their theories, but so far nobody has had the balls to step forward and admit to intiating such a comment, or responding to it in a positive fashion. I suppose that I can understand that some women would respond in like kind. It takes all kinds and theres somebody for each person out there.

As for the professionalism of the flirtacious statement in my profile: I fail to see what is wrong with it. Modeling is often (but not always) about expressing sexuality and sensuality. Erotic artwork often comes into play. So the comment that it is a double standard that a model can get away with it and a photographer can't isn't accurate. The photographer isn't there to be sexual and sensual, they are there to create that mood on the other side of their camera. Its the model's job to have that skill, and the photographers job to reflect it in the lens. It has nothing to do with the photographers feelings beyond their desire to create the image. So a photographer shouldn't be flirty, and thats not a double standard, thats the way the job works.

NC17 wrote:
Because it hasn't "attracted so many flies." This is the very first time I have gotten a rude comment such as this. Everyone else has been quite lovely, males and females alike.

As I mentioned before I am NOT upset that I got the comment. I am simply trying to figure out *why* someone makes such a comment and expects a return from it. A few people have gone on to explain their theories, but so far nobody has had the balls to step forward and admit to intiating such a comment, or responding to it in a positive fashion. I suppose that I can understand that some women would respond in like kind. It takes all kinds and theres somebody for each person out there.

As for the professionalism of the flirtacious statement in my profile: I fail to see what is wrong with it. Modeling is often (but not always) about expressing sexuality and sensuality. Erotic artwork often comes into play. So the comment that it is a double standard that a model can get away with it and a photographer can't isn't accurate. The photographer isn't there to be sexual and sensual, they are there to create that mood on the other side of their camera. Its the model's job to have that skill, and the photographers job to reflect it in the lens. It has nothing to do with the photographers feelings beyond their desire to create the image. So a photographer shouldn't be flirty, and thats not a double standard, thats the way the job works.

OK...so then stop taking it "personally" by being "personally" offended at a "professional" faux pax, be a "professional" and blow it off.

Also sounds like you have some very rigid rules about "roles" when it comes to what a photographer does and what a model does.  Others may disagree.  Sounds very energy and time consuming to be offended when others don't live up to your expectations.

As I have taught my daughter when it comes to the workplace - it's a job, do not invest more emotional energy into it than you will get out of it.  It's a quick detour to dissatisfaction and burnout, not to mention becoming critical about things in your personal life and relationships.  Seen it happen all too often.

The guy either made a mistake or has the mentality of a 4 year old.  Either way you can't let it get to you.

NC17 wrote:
As for the professionalism of the flirtacious statement in my profile: I fail to see what is wrong with it. Modeling is often (but not always) about expressing sexuality and sensuality. Erotic artwork often comes into play. So the comment that it is a double standard that a model can get away with it and a photographer can't isn't accurate. The photographer isn't there to be sexual and sensual, they are there to create that mood on the other side of their camera. Its the model's job to have that skill, and the photographers job to reflect it in the lens. It has nothing to do with the photographers feelings beyond their desire to create the image. So a photographer shouldn't be flirty, and thats not a double standard, thats the way the job works.

I don't think there is anything wrong with putting out a flirtatious comment in your profile.  But that profile gives insight into who your professional self is.  That's all anyone has to go by.  Your images are interpretations of you by the photographers, but your Bio is all You!

I can't say I've ever personally used Nipsboy's opening line, so I can't give you a personal story.  But I can guareentee there is a certain class of girl that will respond positively to such a low class statement.  And that's the answer to your question. And its my opinion that he mistook you for such that class of girl.

NC17 wrote:
So a photographer shouldn't be flirty, and thats not a double standard, thats the way the job works.

Now I know you're messing with us!

Suzan Aktug wrote:

I would write back right away and definately show him more!

Any girl with class would see that he's a complete keeper who's obviously just interested in getting a look at the goodies before making a decision.

I think that you just have no clue as to how a gentleman REALLY acts, what would you rather him say? Something as impolite as "You have a wonderful port", or maybe "You have woderful eyes"? Of course not! Only a sleeze would say such things.

A real man asks for what he wants.

Ya, and a real rude self absorbed crass chump ignores what he is told upfront...in her port it says this, for all you that just focus on the "naughty center" verbage:

"I am not interested in being hit on or seriously flirted with, so if that is your interest-please look elsewhere. I thank you!"

Ahem.

Brian Diaz wrote:

The real difference is that if it's violent sex, it gets an R rating, but if the woman looks like she enjoys it, it's NC-17. 

Major applause!

NC17 wrote:

Because it hasn't "attracted so many flies." This is the very first time I have gotten a rude comment such as this. Everyone else has been quite lovely, males and females alike.

As I mentioned before I am NOT upset that I got the comment. I am simply trying to figure out *why* someone makes such a comment and expects a return from it. A few people have gone on to explain their theories, but so far nobody has had the balls to step forward and admit to intiating such a comment, or responding to it in a positive fashion. I suppose that I can understand that some women would respond in like kind. It takes all kinds and theres somebody for each person out there.

As for the professionalism of the flirtacious statement in my profile: I fail to see what is wrong with it. Modeling is often (but not always) about expressing sexuality and sensuality. Erotic artwork often comes into play. So the comment that it is a double standard that a model can get away with it and a photographer can't isn't accurate. The photographer isn't there to be sexual and sensual, they are there to create that mood on the other side of their camera. Its the model's job to have that skill, and the photographers job to reflect it in the lens. It has nothing to do with the photographers feelings beyond their desire to create the image. So a photographer shouldn't be flirty, and thats not a double standard, thats the way the job works.

Hee hee....really.

And what sort of atmosphere does crass commentary create?

A meat market.

Which gives me a great idea for an editorial shoot....ginny, call me!

studio L wrote:
Daguerre wrote:  I can't say I've ever personally used Nipsboy's opening line, so I can't give you a personal story.  But I can guareentee there is a certain class of girl that will respond positively to such a low class statement.  And that's the answer to your question. And its my opinion that he mistook you for such that class of girl.


And that "class" of girl is?  I need the education.  Enlighten me please.......

Enlightenment:  That class of girl would be the class that responds positively to such inquiries as 'Nice nips. Would like to see more.'

Pretty simple!