Claire Elizabeth wrote:
What is my job?

To reflect light in a pleasing way. 

Which, by the way, you are good at.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job?

'Dance monkey, dance!"

TXPhotog wrote:

To reflect light in a pleasing way. 

Which, by the way, you are good at.

Aw thank you!! I just mean that the photographer should tell me to make small adjustments to a pose if neccessary but I don't expect him or her to tell me everything. That is MY job, that is what I get paid for.

kate f wrote:

'Dance monkey, dance!"

That is hilarious lol.

kate f wrote:

'Dance monkey, dance!"

That's right baby...I'll bring my little music box and you get that ass movin'!

crod169 wrote:

That's right baby...I'll bring my little music box and you get that ass movin'!

So now the photographer has to hire an organ grinder AND tell me how to pose?

Claire Elizabeth wrote:

So now the photographer has to hire an organ grinder AND tell me how to pose?

I can't tell if your being serious or sarcastic - I just woke up so my ability to differenciate is at 3.5% - maybe 4%.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:

Aw thank you!! I just mean that the photographer should tell me to make small adjustments to a pose if neccessary but I don't expect him or her to tell me everything. That is MY job, that is what I get paid for.

I did a job for a jewelry company in February this year. I had this Russian model that I knew from before doing runway.

I pretty much got into an argument with her, because she wanted to do her own poses, started to have an attitude that "she is the model and SHE has to do the poses", where none of the poses she did was what I needed.

I almost kicked her out, until she finally complied, admitted that the images were great and the client was EXTREMELY pleased.

I explained to the model that no matter what, it is MY job to deliver and if her poses don't work for what I need, she MUST listen to my direction.

I won't work with her ever again.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job?

I guess you must be there to take the picture of the posing photographer. Things seem a little backwards, don't they?

UdoR wrote:

I did a job for a jewelry company in February this year. I had this Russian model that I knew from before doing runway.

I pretty much got into an argument with her, because she wanted to do her own poses, started to have an attitude that "she is the model and SHE has to do the poses", where none of the poses she did was what I needed.

I almost kicked her out, until she finally complied, admitted that the images were great and the client was EXTREMELY pleased.

I explained to the model that no matter what, it is MY job to deliver and if her poses don't work for what I need, she MUST listen to my direction.

I won't work with her ever again.

Well obviously I would never behave like that but I do expect that I should have to do something. If it is something for a client I understand that there is a certain way things have to be.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job?

If your paying him, pose how you want.
If he's paying you, pose how he wants.
If theres a director, pose how they tell you.

The best job generally results from a little collabration.

TXPhotog wrote:

To reflect light in a pleasing way.

Great answer : )

Claire Elizabeth wrote:

So now the photographer has to hire an organ grinder AND tell me how to pose?

the organ grinder will be working tfp.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:

Well obviously I would never behave like that but I do expect that I should have to do something. If it is something for a client I understand that there is a certain way things have to be.

Claire, you don't give yourself enough credit.. Even if you're not directing your own poses.. The ability to a) Understand what some goober behind a camera is asking for, b) Execute the pose, the expression, the emotion, and c) Hold it for however many frames it takes for the tog to capture it....  That's a major skill set right there..

Synthetic Shadows wrote:

the organ grinder will be working tfp.

if the photographer is smart, they will put the organ grinder in the picture too.  (expecially if they can get one of those little monkeys with cymbals!)

Synthetic Shadows wrote:

the organ grinder will be working tfp.

...or TFCD if he's become modernized...HeHe!

John W Cochran wrote:

If your paying him, pose how you want.
If he's paying you, pose how he wants.
If theres a director, pose how they tell you.

The best job generally results from a little collabration.

Best answer!!!

If a model hires me, I will shoot what she wants and what best fits her needs.
If am shooting a project the models then does what the client or I want. The models job is to know how to get into that pose and right expressions, so that the image is what is wanted. there should be a purpose for everyimage. unfortunatley internet models have become accustomed to the GWC saying " move like a model and I'll keep shooting and we will see what we have at the end.

there should always be some sort of collaboration, but ultimatley who ever the image is for, will have the final say on what the image should look like.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job?

Well, according to one ex-MM member:

bodyartist wrote:
To ignore that shows how little you value the photographer's experience, or ability, or even talent, when all a model has to do is stand there.  (sorry, an oversimplification, but really, in essence, true.)

[...]

Like it or not, all a person needs to do to be a model, is well, nothing.  Really.

I don't agree.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job?

-----
OK Claire, I'll take a shot at it (and probably get run over) ...

I think that a model needs to learn  1) basic makeup on herself,  2) 4-5 basic hair-styles and the clips/etc to create/change them,   3) facial expressions of -all- kinds (not just one pretty smile) and which ones work well with which poses -and- her face-structure,   4) POSES! all about how her body frame and muscles work. what will look good and what will be awkward,   5) skin and hair care and exercise and diet ... to keep her product (her self and body) in good condition.

edit: forgot to put ... learn to understand and follow directions!

then ... of course ... the photographer gets the last word on pose/expression/etc! IF he/she is paying the model; on a TFP/TFCD project I think it should be a discussion if there is a problem.

so .... tell me why I may be wrong with my ideas, folks?

Jim Goodwin wrote:
I guess you must be there to take the picture of the posing photographer. Things seem a little backwards, don't they?

LOL, silly Jim!!!

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job?

That is the model's job. I hate when models come in without having spent hours in front of the mirror learning their bodies. The model should know how to pose. I shouldn't have to get the model started, they should give something and then if that's not where I want to go we change it up. Be confident, strike a pose, and be ready to compromise and move.

Ched wrote:

That is the model's job. I hate when models come in without having spent hours in front of the mirror learning their bodies. The model should know how to pose. I shouldn't have to get the model started, they should give something and then if that's not where I want to go we change it up. Be confident, strike a pose, and be ready to compromise and move.

This was exactly what I was thinking, I just didn't know how to say it. I agree completely Ched.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job?

When someone comes to me for a photo session, they are generally coming to me because they like my posted photos. How do I get those photos? Do I just click away while the model goes through her memorized routine of existing poses? No. I look at the model, at her natural facial expressions. at her body type and her figure, at her skin (coloring and smoothness), and at her natural posture and movement. While I'm doing that, images pop into my head. How could any model possibly know those mental images and duplicate them? How can any model know how light is striking her? How could any model know where light and shadow are located on her face, clothing or torso?

A model's primary job is to know her own body, to know how to bend an arm, neck or leg gracefully and how to listen and follow my directions. It's my job to direct the model into the poses I 'see' in my head.

...Stacy wrote:

if the photographer is smart, they will put the organ grinder in the picture too.  (expecially if they can get one of those little monkeys with cymbals!)

LOL.

You can work we me anytime... I like your vision.

Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job?

Your job is to help create the image that the client wants.  How that is accomplished is up to the photographer/director/client/whatever.  They may have a very specific idea in mind and give you precise posing directions, or they may just want you to do you own thing.  Most of the time it's somewhere in between.  Your job is to give them what they want.

A model that is experienced, knows how to pose etc. etc. can make the photographers job much easier, but isn't always required.  Sometimes models develop a "routine" that may not fit with what the client wants.  They may want something different from the same old stock selection of poses every other photographer gets, so they will try to break you of that routine for the shoot.  Not saying this is happening in your case but it can happen.

I personally don't like to see models put so much pressure on themselves to provide the poses (especially new ones).  Sometimes it can create tension making it difficult to get great shots.  Just relax and let us guide you to what we want


Edit: I just read Dougs post and like what he said, especially the last part.  I like the idea of making a distinction between "knowing how to pose" and "knowing your body".  I don't want a model to come in with just a bunch of poses, but I do want her to know her body, her angles, how to carry herself and move gracefully.

...Stacy wrote:

if the photographer is smart, they will put the organ grinder in the picture too.  (expecially if they can get one of those little monkeys with cymbals!)

LOL.

You can work with me anytime... I like your vision.

...Stacy wrote:

if the photographer is smart, they will put the organ grinder in the picture too.  (expecially if they can get one of those little monkeys with cymbals!)

LOL.

You can work we me anytime... I like your vision.

Synthetic Shadows wrote:

the organ grinder will be working tfp.

Is that Time For Peanuts?