Model
Claire Elizabeth
Posts: 1550
Exton, Pennsylvania, US
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job?
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Claire Elizabeth wrote:
What is my job? To reflect light in a pleasing way.
Which, by the way, you are good at.
Photographer
Tog
Posts: 55204
Birmingham, Alabama, US
If done right it should be a different job for every photog, and every session..
In my case you're there to give me something to think about.. I may have ideas, and I'll want you to pose.. I may go blank (I do that way too often), and I really want you to have your own repetoire of ideas ready to go, because inevitably something you do will kick my brain back into gear and we're back to work..
Oh.. And 9 times out of 10.. The shots I end up using aren't the ones I had ideas for when I started the shoot.. *shrug*
Photographer
Ryan Colford Studios
Posts: 2286
Brooklyn, New York, US
To look pretty? :-D
Actually I think the model should know how to pose, with suggestions/ideas from the photographer. I guess I'm really big on a creative collaborative myself. The model should know the best way to strike and hold a pose (after all they know their bodies). The photographer should be directing the where - over here, now on the bed, can you do a handstand vault off this stool? That sort of thing.
Photographer
Christofer Rodriguez
Posts: 156
San Bernardino, California, US
"This is how I want you to look/pose," says me, and then you sell it!
"What a splendid day - my 69th post!"
Model
_kate
Posts: 1508
New York, New York, US
Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job? 'Dance monkey, dance!"
Model
Claire Elizabeth
Posts: 1550
Exton, Pennsylvania, US
TXPhotog wrote:
To reflect light in a pleasing way.
Which, by the way, you are good at. Aw thank you!! I just mean that the photographer should tell me to make small adjustments to a pose if neccessary but I don't expect him or her to tell me everything. That is MY job, that is what I get paid for.
Model
Claire Elizabeth
Posts: 1550
Exton, Pennsylvania, US
kate f wrote:
'Dance monkey, dance!" That is hilarious lol.
Photographer
Christofer Rodriguez
Posts: 156
San Bernardino, California, US
kate f wrote:
'Dance monkey, dance!" That's right baby...I'll bring my little music box and you get that ass movin'!
Model
Claire Elizabeth
Posts: 1550
Exton, Pennsylvania, US
crod169 wrote:
That's right baby...I'll bring my little music box and you get that ass movin'! So now the photographer has to hire an organ grinder AND tell me how to pose?
Photographer
Christofer Rodriguez
Posts: 156
San Bernardino, California, US
Claire Elizabeth wrote:
So now the photographer has to hire an organ grinder AND tell me how to pose? I can't tell if your being serious or sarcastic - I just woke up so my ability to differenciate is at 3.5% - maybe 4%.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Aw thank you!! I just mean that the photographer should tell me to make small adjustments to a pose if neccessary but I don't expect him or her to tell me everything. That is MY job, that is what I get paid for. I did a job for a jewelry company in February this year. I had this Russian model that I knew from before doing runway.
I pretty much got into an argument with her, because she wanted to do her own poses, started to have an attitude that "she is the model and SHE has to do the poses", where none of the poses she did was what I needed.
I almost kicked her out, until she finally complied, admitted that the images were great and the client was EXTREMELY pleased.
I explained to the model that no matter what, it is MY job to deliver and if her poses don't work for what I need, she MUST listen to my direction.
I won't work with her ever again.
Photographer
Jim Goodwin
Posts: 219
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job? I guess you must be there to take the picture of the posing photographer. Things seem a little backwards, don't they?
Model
Claire Elizabeth
Posts: 1550
Exton, Pennsylvania, US
UdoR wrote:
I did a job for a jewelry company in February this year. I had this Russian model that I knew from before doing runway.
I pretty much got into an argument with her, because she wanted to do her own poses, started to have an attitude that "she is the model and SHE has to do the poses", where none of the poses she did was what I needed.
I almost kicked her out, until she finally complied, admitted that the images were great and the client was EXTREMELY pleased.
I explained to the model that no matter what, it is MY job to deliver and if her poses don't work for what I need, she MUST listen to my direction.
I won't work with her ever again. Well obviously I would never behave like that but I do expect that I should have to do something. If it is something for a client I understand that there is a certain way things have to be.
Photographer
John W Cochran
Posts: 1266
Auburn, Alabama, US
Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job? If your paying him, pose how you want.
If he's paying you, pose how he wants.
If theres a director, pose how they tell you.
The best job generally results from a little collabration.
Photographer
John W Cochran
Posts: 1266
Auburn, Alabama, US
TXPhotog wrote:
To reflect light in a pleasing way. Great answer : )
Photographer
Cassandra Panek
Posts: 1569
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Claire Elizabeth wrote:
So now the photographer has to hire an organ grinder AND tell me how to pose? the organ grinder will be working tfp.
Photographer
Tog
Posts: 55204
Birmingham, Alabama, US
Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Well obviously I would never behave like that but I do expect that I should have to do something. If it is something for a client I understand that there is a certain way things have to be. Claire, you don't give yourself enough credit.. Even if you're not directing your own poses.. The ability to a) Understand what some goober behind a camera is asking for, b) Execute the pose, the expression, the emotion, and c) Hold it for however many frames it takes for the tog to capture it.... That's a major skill set right there..
Model
StacyJack
Posts: 2297
New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Synthetic Shadows wrote:
the organ grinder will be working tfp. if the photographer is smart, they will put the organ grinder in the picture too. (expecially if they can get one of those little monkeys with cymbals!)
Photographer
Christofer Rodriguez
Posts: 156
San Bernardino, California, US
Synthetic Shadows wrote:
the organ grinder will be working tfp. ...or TFCD if he's become modernized...HeHe!
Photographer
Moda Photographic
Posts: 36
Fort Worth, Texas, US
John W Cochran wrote:
If your paying him, pose how you want.
If he's paying you, pose how he wants.
If theres a director, pose how they tell you.
The best job generally results from a little collabration. Best answer!!!
If a model hires me, I will shoot what she wants and what best fits her needs.
If am shooting a project the models then does what the client or I want. The models job is to know how to get into that pose and right expressions, so that the image is what is wanted. there should be a purpose for everyimage. unfortunatley internet models have become accustomed to the GWC saying " move like a model and I'll keep shooting and we will see what we have at the end.
there should always be some sort of collaboration, but ultimatley who ever the image is for, will have the final say on what the image should look like.
Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6511
Los Angeles, California, US
I make it brainless...
I'm very much a director on the set. I tell the model exactly what I want to see. Even the "spontaneity is premeditated. I can even demonstrate it for the most part, if they don't seem to understand what I'm requesting. I have the vision in my head. I suppose I could let them pose away, going "No... no... no... hell no... maybe, remember that we'll come back to it... no... no... never fucking ever... definitely not, and stop grabbing that... no... no... oooh waitwait that's perf... um, on second thought, no..." but that's a one way ticket to irritation for all involved.
I give the model the mood, tell them the attitude I want to see, the things he/she should be thinking of, etc. Sometimes I'll say, "Okay, give me something." but that's rare. Usually I tell them exactly what I need or give them parameters for the shot and let them play within.
But none of that willy-nilly vogue-ing and whatnot. Unless I have a mindreader, he or she isn't going to know what I want to see in the shot unless I tell him or her...
So what's your job as a model? To do your part to make the shot... whether that means doing as asked or doing your own thing. It all depends on what's needed for the shot...
Photographer
Kevin Connery
Posts: 17825
El Segundo, California, US
Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job? Well, according to one ex-MM member:
bodyartist wrote:
To ignore that shows how little you value the photographer's experience, or ability, or even talent, when all a model has to do is stand there. (sorry, an oversimplification, but really, in essence, true.)
[...]
Like it or not, all a person needs to do to be a model, is well, nothing. Really. I don't agree.
Photographer
Infinite Eye
Posts: 300
New York, New York, US
With great/experienced models, I give them an idea and then let them have free reign. Then I just watch and shoot as the good images appear.
With not so good/new models, I tell them pretty much exactly what to put where and in what way.
I guess the answer, cop out though it may be, is "it depends," or more accurately, "whatever will look best."
However, if it's for a client, then I do nine shots their way for every one my (or the model's) way.
Photographer
Harry Young
Posts: 744
Los Angeles, California, US
Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job? -----
OK Claire, I'll take a shot at it (and probably get run over) ...
I think that a model needs to learn 1) basic makeup on herself, 2) 4-5 basic hair-styles and the clips/etc to create/change them, 3) facial expressions of -all- kinds (not just one pretty smile) and which ones work well with which poses -and- her face-structure, 4) POSES! all about how her body frame and muscles work. what will look good and what will be awkward, 5) skin and hair care and exercise and diet ... to keep her product (her self and body) in good condition.
edit: forgot to put ... learn to understand and follow directions!
then ... of course ... the photographer gets the last word on pose/expression/etc! IF he/she is paying the model; on a TFP/TFCD project I think it should be a discussion if there is a problem.
so .... tell me why I may be wrong with my ideas, folks?
Model
Gabrielle Helms
Posts: 613
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Jim Goodwin wrote:
I guess you must be there to take the picture of the posing photographer. Things seem a little backwards, don't they? LOL, silly Jim!!!
Photographer
Halcyon 7174 NYC
Posts: 20109
New York, New York, US
Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job? That is the model's job. I hate when models come in without having spent hours in front of the mirror learning their bodies. The model should know how to pose. I shouldn't have to get the model started, they should give something and then if that's not where I want to go we change it up. Be confident, strike a pose, and be ready to compromise and move.
Photographer
Mark Reese Photography
Posts: 21622
Brandon, Florida, US
Ched wrote:
That is the model's job. I hate when models come in without having spent hours in front of the mirror learning their bodies. The model should know how to pose. I shouldn't have to get the model started, they should give something and then if that's not where I want to go we change it up. Be confident, strike a pose, and be ready to compromise and move. This was exactly what I was thinking, I just didn't know how to say it. I agree completely Ched.
Photographer
Doug Lester
Posts: 10591
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job? When someone comes to me for a photo session, they are generally coming to me because they like my posted photos. How do I get those photos? Do I just click away while the model goes through her memorized routine of existing poses? No. I look at the model, at her natural facial expressions. at her body type and her figure, at her skin (coloring and smoothness), and at her natural posture and movement. While I'm doing that, images pop into my head. How could any model possibly know those mental images and duplicate them? How can any model know how light is striking her? How could any model know where light and shadow are located on her face, clothing or torso?
A model's primary job is to know her own body, to know how to bend an arm, neck or leg gracefully and how to listen and follow my directions. It's my job to direct the model into the poses I 'see' in my head.
Photographer
aref
Posts: 51
New York, New York, US
...Stacy wrote:
if the photographer is smart, they will put the organ grinder in the picture too. (expecially if they can get one of those little monkeys with cymbals!) LOL.
You can work we me anytime... I like your vision.
Photographer
Gary Davis
Posts: 1829
San Diego, California, US
Claire Elizabeth wrote:
Silly me, I was under the impression that models have to know how to pose and give different expressions. I have just been informed that the photographer does the posing. If that is the case what I am here for? What is my job? Your job is to help create the image that the client wants. How that is accomplished is up to the photographer/director/client/whatever. They may have a very specific idea in mind and give you precise posing directions, or they may just want you to do you own thing. Most of the time it's somewhere in between. Your job is to give them what they want.
A model that is experienced, knows how to pose etc. etc. can make the photographers job much easier, but isn't always required. Sometimes models develop a "routine" that may not fit with what the client wants. They may want something different from the same old stock selection of poses every other photographer gets, so they will try to break you of that routine for the shoot. Not saying this is happening in your case but it can happen.
I personally don't like to see models put so much pressure on themselves to provide the poses (especially new ones). Sometimes it can create tension making it difficult to get great shots. Just relax and let us guide you to what we want 
Edit: I just read Dougs post and like what he said, especially the last part. I like the idea of making a distinction between "knowing how to pose" and "knowing your body". I don't want a model to come in with just a bunch of poses, but I do want her to know her body, her angles, how to carry herself and move gracefully.
Photographer
aref
Posts: 51
New York, New York, US
...Stacy wrote:
if the photographer is smart, they will put the organ grinder in the picture too. (expecially if they can get one of those little monkeys with cymbals!) LOL.
You can work with me anytime... I like your vision.
Photographer
aref
Posts: 51
New York, New York, US
...Stacy wrote:
if the photographer is smart, they will put the organ grinder in the picture too. (expecially if they can get one of those little monkeys with cymbals!) LOL.
You can work we me anytime... I like your vision.
Model
spyro2122
Posts: 760
Orlando, Florida, US
i dont mind getting ideas i guess some models feel that when a photographer tells them how to pose that she/he the model is being insulted on thier skills
Photographer
aref
Posts: 51
New York, New York, US
I don't really like models who "pose" anyway.... I really like that little monkey though!
Photographer
phcorcoran
Posts: 648
Lawrence, Indiana, US
Modeling is acting without words. A good model may appear to be a mother, movie star, whore, scientist, whatever is required to tell a particular story in a picture. Modeling is a highly-skilled form of acting.
Actors generally perform under direction of some kind. During a photo shoot a model usually poses under the direction of a photographer, who may be working under the direction of an art director, etc.
So I would say that a model's job is to follow directions in wordlessly portraying a story or idea.
Photographer
Fred Brown Photo
Posts: 1303
Chicago, Illinois, US
The ability to comprehend the purpose of the shoot is the photograhers job because he is the director. He must then relay this to the model who has to be able to bring that concept to life.
In commercial advertisement, it's common for the art director to give an illustration or drawing of what they want to the photgrapher. In this case the creative expression has been removed. The model then has to do whatever the drawing says and that's what the photograper is to shoot.
Personally I can care less if the model knows how to pose. I just want her to be able to follow directions.
Photographer
ttbrown photography
Posts: 251
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
I can't imagine an actor approaching a director like John Huston asking 'how do you want me to play this part?'...if he didn't take the actor's head off, he might say 'play it in a way I have never seen before'...that's an actor...same with a model...you are being compensated, so show something creative, instead of worrying about your boundaries...these are collaborations, not conflicts...
Model
Diabolo
Posts: 6
Norwich, England, United Kingdom
Synthetic Shadows wrote:
the organ grinder will be working tfp. Is that Time For Peanuts?
Photographer
Valkyrur
Posts: 1187
Nelsonville, New York, US
In my case ...... GET NAKED
|
