bloodmistress wrote:
iam active and from bristol but find it hard to get any replys of togs on here

Hiya Bloodmistress

I'm active, in the UK & a photographer - you're now contacted!

I'd love to work with you the next time you're in London

PhilAntony wrote:
Hello everyone

There are about 700 models and 500 UK photographers on here! You wouldn't know it from looking at the Casting Calls and forum posts though!

Sure you would... 1st... there are the models who won't do TFP and only want paid work - OR - who will only "test" with an MUA + hair dresser + stylist [all out of the photographer's pocket... DUH!!!]; and then... there are the photographers who will only pay a model if they have paying clients, or particular paying outlets, for the work to justify paying the models in the first instance. This pretty much narrows the field to a few models who will do "tests" or TFP and a few photographers who will do "tests" or TFP out of pocket... and in either case there's a lot fewer in both groups than the membership numbers would have you believe.

All in all = very few "casting calls" of either kind [paid / non-paid]... even if you want to include "testing" and / or TFP as a "casting call" [which technically they aren't]

Lastly, and I am well and truly on record here on this point, some of the model's rates are little more than silly money, pie in the sky, pay me that or find someone else,  demands.

One [UK based model] I pointed up a few days ago... no names mentioned... wanted paid once for her time and then paid again for a release. She can shove that idea right up her [you know what]

Fine... I'll do it by street casting my talent... and I do.

Studio36

Bangerman wrote:
Get real.

There is not enough market in the UK for 700 models, a large proportion of whom are Alt. So they have to charge to stand a chance of making money.

Not mainstream models? Can't [or don't want to] change their look to do a wider variety of work? Don't want to take out the piercings or re-dye their day-glo hair? Then their chosen "style" is their own fault and so is their inability to make money because the market for their "look" is somewhere between shit and non-existent. That's not my fault, now, is it?

Bangerman wrote:
If they charge too much just move on to the next one.

I most definitely do just that.

Bangerman wrote:
If you dont intend to sell the images, you can either do TPF with whoever is interested or pay up.

Dont knock them for wanting to earn a living.

I don't shoot "alt" models in the first place so that leaves them ALL out... paid - OR - TFP... but wait a minute, you said in the same breath - "...TPF with whoever is interested or pay up..." - you seem to imply that TFP is somehow "free" - it's bloody not free to ME as the photographer, so from MY standpoint it is pay for one or pay for the other [where there is no intention to shoot, and there are are no, marketable images to recover costs.]

Fuck that! If I can make money from the images I'll pay the model; if I can't they can pay me. I don't run a friggen charity for models, especially alt models, and I am not getting any Lottery money either.

I might do the odd freebie for a new, more conventional, model with some promise... but only maybe once or twice a year. And I'll tell you this, my friend, most of the commercial photographers I know, those earning a living from it, don't do any more free work, and usually less, than I do.

Studio36

studio36uk wrote:

Bangerman wrote:
Get real.

There is not enough market in the UK for 700 models, a large proportion of whom are Alt. So they have to charge to stand a chance of making money.

Not mainstream models? Can't [or don't want to] change their look to do a wider variety of work? Don't want to take out the piercings or re-dye their day-glo hair? Then their chosen "style" is their own fault and so is their inability to make money because the market for their "look" is somewhere between shit and non-existent. That's not my fault, now, is it?

Bangerman wrote:
If they charge too much just move on to the next one.

I most definitely do just that.

I don't shoot "alt" models in the first place so that leaves them ALL out... paid - OR - TFP... but wait a minute, you said in the same breath - "...TPF with whoever is interested or pay up..." - you seem to imply that TFP is somehow "free" - it's bloody not free to ME as the photographer, so from MY standpoint it is pay for one or pay for the other [where there is no intention to shoot, and there are are no, marketable images to recover costs.]

Fuck that! If I can make money from the images I'll pay the model; if I can't they can pay me. I don't run a friggen charity for models and I am not getting any Lottery money either.

Studio36

Heh.
You talk as if Alt models cant actually do more than one look,Many of them seem to be happy enough to chop and change styles fairly easily.
Plus a chosen style isnt always their fault..it may be the only area they fit into as most of the specifications for "fashion" and glamour tend to be rather specific and there are already an AWFUL lot of models out there who DO fit the bill perfectly.

As for TFP being free I agree with you that is is far from free .. on TFP shoots ALONE this last six months I have forked out nearly a grand in travel/accomodation and outfits.

Sirensong wrote:
Heh.
You talk as if Alt models cant actually do more than one look,Many of them seem to be happy enough to chop and change styles fairly easily.
Plus a chosen style isnt always their fault..it may be the only area they fit into as most of the specifications for "fashion" and glamour tend to be rather specific and there are already an AWFUL lot of models out there who DO fit the bill perfectly.

You are right... the UK is awash with more conventional models. If there was a substantial paying market for alt I would shoot alt; there isn't and I don't.

Sirensong wrote:
As for TFP being free I agree with you that is is far from free .. on TFP shoots ALONE this last six months I have forked out nearly a grand in travel/accomodation and outfits.

Then you need to ask yourself why that is... and why you aren't consistently getting paying work... or any paying work at all if that is the case.

Ahhh, the world of Internet modelling. Sigh!

Studio36

studio36uk wrote:
You are right... the UK is awash with more conventional models. If there was a substantial market for alt I would shoot alt; there isn't and I don't.


Then you need to ask yourself why that is... and why you aren't consistently getting paying work... or any paying work at all if that is the case.

Ahhh, the world of Internet modelling. Sigh!

Studio36

LMAO.
Actually I am published "offline"  and signed with a well known agency too so I can gloat over the fact that I am not purely an internet model
You seem to miss the fact that I DO get paying work fairly regularly ,It doesnt stop me doing TFP however as they tend to be the ones that are the most fun.
Paid work is about what they the photographer wants not at all about a collaberation of ideas and I certainly dont get the imput.
Mind you saying that where do you think I GOT the grand to fork out in the first place?
That added to the fact that you yourself said there are 700 models in the UK most of them Alt and most of them doing TFP it cuts down the paying market somewhat.

Sirensong wrote:
That added to the fact that you yourself said there are 700 models in the UK most of them Alt and most of them doing TFP it cuts down the paying market somewhat.

No, actually that was Bangerman that came up with both the number and the comment about the alt market.

I merely agreed, from my point of view, with his assessment. If I take photos of 20 models, 19 alt models and 1 with more conventional looks, but who might only be an average looking  "so so" model, to one of my clients they would pick the average looking "so so" BUT conventional model, every time. I couldn't give an alt model away to a client even if I threw in a pint and a bag of crisps.

Studio36

studio36uk wrote:

No, actually that was Bangerman that came up with both the number and the comment about the alt market.

I merely agreed, from my point of view, with his assessment. If I take photos of 20 models, 19 alt models and 1 with more conventional looks, but who might only be an average looking  "so so" model, to one of my clients they would pick the average looking "so so" BUT conventional model, every time. I couldn't give an alt model away to a client even if I threw in a pint and a bag of crisps.

Studio36

What flavour crisps?

There is a market for Alt modelling but you have to be "into" that market any I think to be willing to make any money out of it.
I will agree though that the money tends to be pretty low and there are less jobs than when you compare it to "everyday" commercial modelling.
You dont cater for the Alt market so therefore dont have a use for Alt models in the same way that those photographers that DO cater for it have little use for the more conventional model apart from perhaps the role of victim.

Then again after the Eurovision result last night I think there may be more fans of the Alt scene than was first thought

Sirensong wrote:

Heh.
You talk as if Alt models cant actually do more than one look,Many of them seem to be happy enough to chop and change styles fairly easily.
Plus a chosen style isnt always their fault..it may be the only area they fit into as most of the specifications for "fashion" and glamour tend to be rather specific and there are already an AWFUL lot of models out there who DO fit the bill perfectly.

As for TFP being free I agree with you that is is far from free .. on TFP shoots ALONE this last six months I have forked out nearly a grand in travel/accomodation and outfits.

I agree I'm considered an 'alt' model but have no problems whatsoever in looking more commercial for shoots etc..as one can tell from my work I adjust the look to what is required by the photographer, if the job is right I'll take of the make up, chop off and dye my hair blond if needed...though I have tattoos I have in the past covered them up with special make up etc..

studio36uk wrote:
Not mainstream models? Can't [or don't want to] change their look to do a wider variety of work? Don't want to take out the piercings or re-dye their day-glo hair? Then their chosen "style" is their own fault and so is their inability to make money because the market for their "look" is somewhere between shit and non-existent. That's not my fault, now, is it?

Studio36

I think i would class myself as an alternative person, but i have my natuiral hair colour and the only think i have pearced is my belly, i would have no worriess about takeing it out though. Other than that, So long as Im not expected to provide the more normal clothes, Id were anything solong as i was sufficently covered.