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Escorts and safety
I see all the time on profiles that models will not come to a shoot without an escort. Now I don't mind this as I have not had a problem yet, but it makes me wonder a couple things. Why would a model think that an escort will make them safe? If someone were to really set a trap for models then an escort would probably be the first one to get injured or killed. Now when I have escorted for other type of work I'm armed. To me this is the only way to truely be an escort and supply real safety. Do the escorts come in to the building an clear it before the model comes in? Do these escorts have an real training or experience? Seems like it's a false sense of security. I'm all for making the model feel comfortable but I think a little thought should go into what safety really is. Any thoughts? Aaron May 04 06 11:58 pm Link Here's what I think. Models are much better off having the escort drop them off. If the escort is in the studio and something was to happen, then both witnesses are in danger. Your only safety net is right there in harms way with you. With the escort on the outside, should things go wrong, the model now has a witness on the outside who can lead police to where she is. Plus, I don't think anyone would harm a model knowing someone on the outside there knows the address of the photographer. I'm tired as hell, so this might not make any sense. May 05 06 12:07 am Link This one has been done many times but ... in short, because having someone else there cuts down the odds of something bad happening. I would really rather not have an unnecessary distraction at my shoots but I remain open to chaperones just because I want models to develop safe working habits. I really, really do not want to read about one of the models that I have worked with (or any other for that matter) having been abused in some way by someone. To that end, I encourage all of them to practice "model safety." May 05 06 12:11 am Link I think the escort issue is less about "oh the photographer could be setting a trap" and more about deterring any untoward behavior. I make sure to get dropped off most times, my dad is a large scary man and he usually talks a little with the photographer. I mean, and I'm lucky compared to some of the stories on this site, I had this shoot last week with this guy that was going way too far, or at least trying to because I shut him down and I'm sure that if I'd had a friend with me sitting in the corner reading a book or helping me with my makeup, he'd have kept his disgusting little comments and grunts to himself. I wasn't worried that he might attack me, but none of that is necessary. May 05 06 12:17 am Link J Merrill Images wrote: Actually when I searched, before I posted, I did not find a thread like mine. May 05 06 12:20 am Link Melissa Lynnette wrote: Cool. But now you have us all wondering. Could you please tell us all more about the photog's "...disgusting little comments and grunts?" What was he saying? He actually grunted? May 05 06 12:21 am Link Pete Flanagan wrote: I want to hear more as well. May 05 06 12:30 am Link Maybe he had gas. j/k Seriously, though, I wonder what was going on that he felt the need to grunt? May 05 06 12:33 am Link May 05 06 12:42 am Link ADGibson wrote: I think you've put way too much thought into this. Do models think having an escort there is going to physically protect them should the photographer turn out to be an axe-wielding maniac? Not really. It's a comfort issue. It's always nicer to enter an unfamiliar situation when you've got a friend along. Plus, with a friend there, most photographers are going to think twice about behaving badly. ADGibson wrote: I'm assuming you have all of the proper permits for carrying a concealed weapon? May 05 06 12:47 am Link personally I would feel safer if someone I know was there with me, and in turn feel less nervous and perform better on a shoot not that I think any of the photographers I work with will harm me, but if something unexpected happens theres another pair of eyes watching also I think people are less likely to harm you if you have more people around just my thoughts May 05 06 12:52 am Link I call and check in, let my friend know the EXACT address I'm at, I dont prefer anyone to come with me paid or not. Even though I might have a REALLY CLOSE FRIEND I just cant get in the mood to shoot because ITS a HUGE Distraction.... NO escorts , but I will ALWAYS Have someone know where I am at all times! Sometimes maybe even two or three people it just depends.... May 05 06 01:00 am Link ADGibson wrote: I dunno, but if you 'chaperone' a model to one of my shoots and if you are armed, two things will happen. First the shoot will abruptly end and second, you'll have a conversation with the local police. May 05 06 01:17 am Link ADGibson wrote: I think most Americans spend too much time being fearful and not enough just living. May 05 06 02:27 am Link Being in the UK, I haven't heard of any occasion where an escort has brought a gun to a session... May 05 06 02:36 am Link KM von Seidl wrote: 50 points. May 05 06 02:41 am Link They can show up with their escort - but that doesn't mean I'll be there too! JAY carreon PHOTOGRAPHER May 05 06 02:41 am Link ADGibson wrote: Maybe eventually but first the criminal would try to find a model that goes to shoots without an escort. May 05 06 12:43 pm Link Tom Sullivan wrote: The murder rate in Europe per 100 000 is around 1.6 anually. In the US it's over 5 people per 100 000. May 05 06 12:48 pm Link I am just curious here........Do you suppose that these models bring an escort to their "day job"? I am all about safety.....Bring your escort....sit chat get comfy.....but when it is time to shoot or discuss business he/she/they may feel free to wait outside or head to the cafe a blcok up the street........Modelling is a JOB! Oh and to qualify I don't really shoot nudes....I shoot fashion for my own label...... May 05 06 12:52 pm Link just remember what the NRA sez; "guns don't kill models, photographers do"... May 05 06 12:54 pm Link Guns are not allowed by anyone in the UK, police and military aside. If you carry a concelied gun, even a replica or fake, and the police get involved you may very well end up dead, most likely serving time. Any conceled weapon carries an automatic jail sentence. One of the better things about being in the UK. May 05 06 01:01 pm Link They did a study on men in prison who have sexually assualted and raped women. They asked them what were the "criteria" that they looked for when attempting to victimize a woman. The number one thing that they all said was they look for an "easy target' One that would cause the least amount of fuss and take the least amount of effort to subdue. Serial killers and cold blooded murderers that set up intricate plots to take someone's life are out there, but few and far between. Unscrupulous men that take advantage of optimum situations to get what they want are far more in numbers and an escort WOULD deter most of them from attempting anything stupid, as it would be too troublesome and go against their cowardice nature to have to attack two people (let alone a man) to get the quick satisfaction of his assault. I'm not arguing FOR escorts or against them, but lets not act as if in this world of young women going to strangers houses and remote "studios" that they met on the internet, that the possibility of an assault or worse doesn't exists for them (sure it exists for the photog as well but in far greater numbers for the model). Taking an escort if you aren't that comfortable right off makes logical sense. May 05 06 01:05 pm Link KM von Seidl wrote: Hear, hear - and too damn gun happy.... May 05 06 01:14 pm Link I would never work in an unsafe environment for myself, much less an assistant or model working with me with or without anyone's escort/bodyguard...what really bothers me is that I need an assistant/bodyguard to keep an eye on a new model's "stranger to me" escort who is checking out my photo and studio equipment while I am concentrating on my work... It cuts both ways... no mutual trust, no work...t.t.b. May 05 06 01:15 pm Link Escorts...hmmm... I will bring someone with me when I am working with a new photographer whom I have no personal references from. This is just for my own comfort, not for protection. I also prefer the term "assistant", since that person will assist me by helping me carry wardrobe, make-up, and in some cases assist the photographer with lights or grabbing equipment and such. Being comfortable is key for all parties involved. If a photog says, no, no assistant, then no shoot. I also make sure the person I bring isn't in the way and certainly not some big, burly guy that looks like my body guard. That'll probably make the photographer uncomfortable. So, there is no right answer. Do what makes you comfortable. May 05 06 01:16 pm Link exactly, i am flying to california and missouri this summer to shoot with photogs i dont know, and met online. do i know anyone in those states? NO! so of corse im going to bring someone along, the "nearest help" for me would be in WA! so yes, i think they're a good idea. just to have one. my boyfriend goes to some of my shoots, but more as a wardrob/makeup/stylist/helper than for "protection", but just having him there makes me relax more. most of the time, hes outside the room, or sitting out of my view, so i dont get destracted. plus hes quiet, never talks, and lets me handle my busness, whether im nude or not, if the photogs telling me how sexy i am, he wont object. i'm lucky for that though. May 05 06 01:27 pm Link well i say bring an escort. its most likely that something will happen if a woman is alone. i met a photographer on THIS SITE and did a shoot with him. it was fine, the pictures were cute and that was it. he did offer for me to "change in his van" (we were doing a shoot outside) and i politely declined and changed in my own car. less than six months later, im watching the news after a tv program and guess who is on there in a orange jumpsuit? the photographer i shot with. he was arrested for abducting a young girl at gunpoint and raping her. i went online the next day at work and his mm site is taken off, which is a GREAT thing, but i dont know if the mm people did it or he did or whatever... it makes me sick to think that this couldve been myself, and if he got this girl to get in his van like he offered me and thats how he hurt her. and i felt safe shooting with him becuase he has a wife and two teenage children and it was in broad daylight on a normal street. but safe is better than sorry! and if someone has a problem with you bringing someone else with you, dont shoot with them. its just not worth it. sorry for all the honest people out there, but you never know. gabbey May 05 06 01:37 pm Link When it comes down to it, people always feel safer in numbers. It is a false sense of security, but it is inate. I dont normally bring an escort with me, but if I get a weird feeling, Im sometimes wish I had. People are less likely to act rude when an escort is with you. I know for a fact, I saved myself twice by bringing an escort based on friends accounts with the same photographer when they did not bring one. But who cares, I wish I could bring an escort all the time. They can be forced into becoming personal assistance. Tell them to hold a reflector, grab some tape, roll up some cords....whatever, put them to work. The few times my fiancee has come along, I swear I get forgotten. The photographer ends up liking him and talking to him so much and then putting him to work. The creppy guys just point him to the furthest corner of the room and tell him to be quite LOL. MM May 05 06 01:49 pm Link William Kious wrote: ADGibson wrote: I think you've put way too much thought into this. Do models think having an escort there is going to physically protect them should the photographer turn out to be an axe-wielding maniac? Not really. It's a comfort issue. It's always nicer to enter an unfamiliar situation when you've got a friend along. Plus, with a friend there, most photographers are going to think twice about behaving badly. Hardly with my case. I do have the proper permits (CCW) and have more training than most Law Enforcement. I paid for my training instead of being paid to be there so I paid very close attention. Plus most of my family are military or LE. If carrying a weapon is a false sense of security then officers and military would not carry them. When I can outshoot and impress them I know I have worked hard and accomplished what I set out to do. I was a Process Server for several years and that is why I went through all the training. Thankfully I don't do that type of work anymore. May 05 06 07:17 pm Link Gabbey wrote: Now this is what I'm talking about. If you have brought someone with you what would they do? Two people against an armed man is still not a safe situation. The escort would probably have gotten shot. May 05 06 07:21 pm Link John Jebbia wrote: John..I like you..but your tired..and this made no sence. May 05 06 07:26 pm Link Fotorican Inc wrote: ROFLAO what a sence of humour..LOL May 05 06 07:33 pm Link Undoubtedly, safety is of utmost importance. Those of you whom are against escorts, here's my question: *If you had an 18 - 25 year old daughter, would you allow her to do a photoshoot in a secluded or obscure location with a photographer she'd never worked with? Far be it for me to tell anyone how to rear their child, but if I had a daughter, there's no way in hell I'd allow that. You're begging for trouble. Any photographer or film maker worth their salt will allow for escorts, however, we get into a touchy subject in terms of 'boyfriends'. I have had horrible experiences with 'control freak' boyfriends destroying a shoot. For a model to express herself, she HAS to be focused and comfortable. Having a jealous boyfriend around basically is a disaster in the making. His goal typically is to hold her back and destroy her success, after all, her success means loss of control for him. For our production, here's my solution: For auditions we're allowing escorts if requested and we'll actually pay their travel expenses. An 'escort' is a family member and preferably a parent. People think I'm insane for requesting that a parent be there but from a liability standpoint it makes total sense. A parent will keep tabs on their child, not allow them to get in trouble i.e. party and get intoxicated, which of course leads to all kinds of horrible things. A parent, if supportive, will give their child a focal point and comfort level during a shoot of an audition. I feel an inherent responsibility for anyone that I work with. Liability is a concern, yet their well being and safety should always be a concern. I have friends who model who are 'street smart'. I have heard of so many 'close calls' and horror stories. I cringe when I talk to them. You can do your homework, check references, run a crim background, but there's no substitute for a responsible escort. The escort has to allow the subject to express herself, however. Anyway, some may not share my opinion, but again I ask you: Would you allow your daughter to participate in a shoot in a secluded location with a photographer that she didn't know? It's something to think about. May 05 06 07:36 pm Link I always carry pepper pray with me. Not just to photoshoots, but everywhere. I live a "trusting" [risky] lifestyle sometimes. A friend is escorting me to a photoshoot for the first time on Wednesday. I'll let her hold the pepperspray. May 05 06 07:39 pm Link Wynd Mulysa wrote: I know you are being serious, but it made me laugh. LOL May 05 06 08:20 pm Link VRG Photography wrote: I always try to express anything serious in a humorous way. I'm happy you can understand. :0). May 05 06 08:21 pm Link I am certainly not against escorts. I just would prefer that if models are going to bring one make sure it's someone that could possibly keep them safe. Someone who has actual security experience. When I say "Be Safe" I really mean it. Be safe and have fun. You only get one spin at this. May 05 06 08:39 pm Link A few days ago a teacher was accused of killing a female high school student so our advice should be all female students with male teachers need escorts in the class room and out. Recently several female teachers have been jailed for having sex with under age male students. We need escorts for our young men also. When you do any bussines where you as a women may be :gasp: alone with a strange man you also need an escort. In fact no women should go anywhere at any time to meet anyone without two escorts and a pitt bull. This is so silly and totally out of hand. If you feel you need a escort for all your shoots then maybe you shouldn't model. I'm all for safety but man this stuff is tiring. Things happen and while a few photographers have done some bad things so have police officers, teachers, lawyers and even doctors. Yet no one is suggesting take escorts to your doctors office. May 05 06 08:55 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: Tony, May 05 06 09:32 pm Link |
