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should models know business and legal stuff?
intellectual property law. contract law. entertainment law copyright law media law. what do you think? how many of them know anything about the business and legal stuff before they pose in front of the camera? and how many who feel they dont a legit agent or manager, actually know WHY legit representation and/or consultation is necessary? May 01 06 10:40 am Link Yes. May 01 06 10:41 am Link BCI Photo wrote: would you deal with them differently if they did come empowered to negotate in their best interest? May 01 06 10:43 am Link models, just like anyone getting into this business, should know the in's and out's of the industry. it is also necessary and important to know the legalities and laws of the modeling world unless of course, you want to get sued, ripped off, exploited, etc. May 01 06 10:44 am Link Anyone involved in a business should know the ins and outs of that business May 01 06 10:46 am Link Thomas B wrote: would you deal with them differently if they did come empowered to negotate in their best interest? May 01 06 10:46 am Link Before signing on with an agency, will the allow you to go over the contract with a lawyer? I had an agency that allowed me to take the contract to make sure it was legit. May 01 06 10:49 am Link Thomas B wrote: very true May 01 06 10:50 am Link Anona wrote: Anyone who doesn't want you to have your lawyer look over what you're about to sign is probably up to no good. May 01 06 10:51 am Link images by elahi wrote: Most "working" models have those behind them that have understanding of the subjects. For the hobbyist looking to go to the next level it becomes vitally important they take the time and effort to engage specialists or learn the areas or get burned. For the hobbyist just wanting pretty pictures it doesn't matter. May 01 06 10:53 am Link Hi, Should models have at least a basic understanding of the business and legal end of the profession? Wow, that's an easy question to answer. Yes! Modeling is a business (even in a very real sense when doing TFCD work -- with this the equivalent of an apprenticeship as much as a time for portfolio building). Any model who doesn't realize this is heading for trouble and will eventually be taken advantage of. Take care, Tom May 01 06 10:57 am Link Even if a model doesn't have a totally technical insight to the business, they should at least get a BASIC understanding before rushing out to advertise themselves. I'm mean, c'mon!!! The amount of messages like "Is Impact WW a scam?" or "does anyone have information about the WISH Network?" is outrageously high. Often, the people that write those messages claim to have some experience in modeling as well. If those people would just spend a couple of hours learning the basics of the business, it would save themselves (and others) alot of time, grief, and financial expenses. They should learn the technicalities of the business as much as possible, but no need to go overboard, as it's their job to pose and not their job to study law. Even lawyers have lawyers! May 01 06 11:00 am Link T R Willmitch wrote: hey tom, May 01 06 11:01 am Link SayCheeZ! wrote: would you deal with them differently if they did come empowered to negotate in their best interest? May 01 06 11:01 am Link A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I have to say, I've been told some amazingly dumb things by models with utter confidence -- unfortunately, completely wrong. This kind of ignorance hurts everybody. At the same time, I've had models educate me, helping me do things a new way, or understand a nuance of law better. I really appreciate it when that happens. We all need to be educated. But the law regarding photography is incredibly complicated, and becomes more so because large portions of it vary state by state -- so that what is true in say, California, is NOT necessarily true in NY. Overall though, knowledge is power, and all of us need to understand the legal ins and outs of the business we are in. May 01 06 11:01 am Link SayCheeZ! wrote: would you deal with them differently if they did come empowered to negotate in their best interest? May 01 06 11:01 am Link bang bang photo wrote: so are you justifying the need for agents and/or managers? May 01 06 11:02 am Link My agency suggested I take the contract to a lawyer before signing. The agency also stated changes can be made to the contract if neccessary, before signing. How can you make an informed decision if you do not have an understanding of what you are reading and or signing? Ask questions if you do not know. Common sense is what is missing from a lot of so called models. Be smart, be safe, and look out for yourself and your future. Not many other people will have your best interest at heart if you do not take the time to know what you are doing. Come on, stupid is as stupid does. Even as one of the younger members here, it amazes me what people twice my age do and do not do for their career. May 01 06 11:06 am Link images by elahi wrote: To the extent that they 1. don't violate any of them 2. don't let other people take unfair advantage of them. May 01 06 11:08 am Link images by elahi wrote: Part of being business-savvy is to understand what is needed, when. If you are bringing in a lawyer or agent or manager to OK the release for a TFP shoot, for example, it's overkill. On the other hand, if you are negotiating with Victoria's Secret for a two-year contract, you're an idiot if you do it without representation. Between those two extremes, it can come down either way, right? May 01 06 11:10 am Link ummm... is this a trick question? May 01 06 11:11 am Link images by elahi wrote: Personally speaking, I'm the type of guy that's pretty honest, and if a person is getting involved in any type of business dealing (with me or anyone else)... especially a contractual one... I usually tell them about the consequences of their actions so they're fully informed and can make a proper decision. May 01 06 11:12 am Link bang bang photo wrote: Great point. I think the best thing to do is take any contract you are being asked to sign to a lawyer who has a working knowlege of the field. May 01 06 11:13 am Link Mark Anderson wrote: no..just trying to create a forum where folks are sharing info and other folks are being empowreed and educated...that's all...i see so many models or aspiring models asking questions that I think they should know the answers to.......... May 01 06 11:20 am Link Thomas B wrote: Absolutely! May 01 06 11:24 am Link images by elahi wrote: I probably wouldn't deal with them any differently ... except for the fact that, if they were equipped to negotiate on their own behalf, I wouldn't have to explain as much of the paperwork in as much detail as I find myself doing on occasion. May 01 06 11:31 am Link images by elahi wrote: No....I have shot with models who would make excellent attorneys (Ryan....the girl in my green shot is a perfect example) and I have shot with models who would of signed a deal with the devil (I like to wear red....does that count) if I asked them to and all shoots were the same. that is me though.....I treat everyone the same and have no hidden agenda. But there are people in this business looking to take advantage of any weakling so I recommend that everyone in this business learn everything you can. It's always smart to protect yourself. but to get to your question again, no I would not treat a model different if they came to a shoot with knowledge of the business. May 01 06 11:42 am Link I'm a communications major. A course requirement is Communications Law. I found the information helpful on its own, but in terms of modeling it has helped so much. One should know the law in the field they are going into. I've been on shoots where the photographer has been of the attitude "Oh, she's just a dumb model." They've told me things with "authority". It's quite enjoyable to turn around and say, "Actually, according to the case..." That puts them in their place fast. They're not expecting it. I'd like to take more classes, such as constitutional law and the CA penal code, just to educate myself. Everyone should know the law and how it affects them. May 01 06 12:51 pm Link images by elahi wrote: Knowledge is power whether it is necessary or not. May 01 06 01:00 pm Link The most successful models I know are also consummate businesswomen with enough knowledge about these things as they need to stay safe/profitable. May 01 06 02:51 pm Link But if models know business and legal stuff, how will we ever be able to take advantage of them? May 01 06 02:59 pm Link Brian Diaz wrote: ah Brian Ijust admire and respect your candid honesty..your naked truths LOL May 01 06 03:02 pm Link images by elahi wrote: This applies equally to photographers. As we see on these forums, all too many of them have very incomplete, or completely wrong, understanding of these kinds of issues. A lot of the crap they say that takes advantage of models, they actually believe to be true! images by elahi wrote: It's not necessary in many cases, but it's desirable. Even so, that doesn't determine anything, since the number of competent, honest, knowledgeable agents or managers is quite limited, and the number of potential models very large. They can't all get good representation, however much they may see a need for it. May 01 06 04:18 pm Link Brian Diaz wrote: roofies. May 01 06 05:43 pm Link i would say oooohhhhh NOOO!!!!! follow: (in a lewis black tone) IF the models would become smart, then they would be too smart to model, pretty soon they'd quit modeling and start legal firms like madam sarah & pyschosis, kevlar, theda, and lapis PC, and set up plush offices on wall street, with 800 numbers and yellow pages and subway ads, (and they'll figure they're smart enough to take their own damn pix for the ads too, and save a few bucks) next thing ya know, everyone is going to the 'former models legal firms', guys wanting a divorce, guys sueing people in in accidents, guys who are being auditted by the IRS, all of them, they'll all want a former model to represent them instead of some jewish guy from harvard, or yale. then what happens? i'll tell ya, all of those jewish attorneys aint working, aint making money, they're all not going to start selling diamonds on canal street, (ever wonder why its called jewelry?) they're gonna think of another way to fuck us all over, and whats the best way to fuck the most people over? fucking damn right! politics all of those g'damn out of work jewish attornies are gonna start running for public offices, senators, congressman, governors, mayors, sheriffs, gonna start getting elected, gonna start raising fucking taxes, and sponsering fucking bills and amendments that are too good to 'passover'. pretty soon the face of good ol' abraham lincoln on the $5 bill will have gerri curls on him so now instead of getting fucked over maybe in a divorce or an accident, its gonna become an everday thing and whose gonna be left to model? ulgy fat, crack whores, transgenders, illegal aliens, senior citizens, a few canadians, our SPOUSES and GIRLFRIENDS and their girlfriends GUYS if i wanted to shoot my wife, i wouldnt fucking miss May 01 06 09:50 pm Link Yes,they should. They also need to know the basics of photography. May 01 06 10:03 pm Link yes yes yes yes and YES!! you do not have to be stupid to be beautiful! never go into a situation blind! ever! May 01 06 10:05 pm Link DeathbyNew-Wave wrote: brilliant point! May 02 06 08:58 am Link Chili wrote: LOL priceless May 02 06 09:00 am Link images by elahi wrote: Yes, I wouldn't have to babytalk to them and try to sit down and have to explain (wasting 30 minutes) about the ins and outs of the business. May 02 06 09:25 am Link |