Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
Ken Long wrote:
Accomodating people starts to cause trouble. I'm sure they didn't think that photographers would want to do photoshoots there - rather just allowing people to view the areas. Next thing you know, you have 30 photographers there all bringing lights, MUA's, and the infamous escorts and other people aren't going to be able to see the exhibits. Whose going to supply the officer? Should the city pay for that? Nope... that should fall to the photographer. Setting up barricades - how much area should you be allowed? How much do you take away from others to let this one person shoot an image?
Maybe if they could sit down, set up an agreement so that either one day a month or something the place could open early, for photographers that sign up in advance and pay a fee could use it. That way, the general public isn't being put out.
Just because your a photographer doesn't mean that everyone should bend to your will or way so you can get a photo. Ken, I kind of agree. However -- they have said, "As long as you have a permit..." They need to make the permit accessable. I went seeking the permit. I'm willing to pay for it. Pay for an off duty officer? Barracades? Isn't that the cost of doing business?
The arts center is basically a theater -- everything happens inside. I only want to shoot -- outside.
Should they bend to my request to shoot? Yes and no. Honestly, if they said that I could shoot there, yet there were some caveats, I would agree to all of them. I just want to shoot there because it's public -- and my tax dollars helped build it. Also, I've spent money for some of their shows. If EllieMae can come here from Nebraska and take pictures in the common/public areas, I should be able to do so, too. EllieMae's pictures are for personal use -- so are mine. I only want them for my and my model's portfolio.
What is the difference between my equipment and EllieMae's equipment? About twenty thousand dollars (remember that I'm shooting with lights). When did it become any US Government's job to decide what equipment that I need to shoot with?
Frankly, I think that my (and your) rights as a US citizen are being trampled. If a place is public, it needs to be just that -- public!
Photographer
Rp-photo
Posts: 42711
Houston, Texas, US
Jeff Marsh wrote:
"It's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission." My motto as well, as long as what you are doing is not obviously dangerous or illegal.
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
thisismyurl wrote:
Personally, I think you went about this all wrong.
If you wanted to photograph somewhere that you knew would be a problem, talk to a friend in the marketing department, let him/her know that the pictures would be fab and that the art centre would have access to the best ones for their own marketing literature (with proper credit of course).
Remember, the best way to get somebody to give you what you want is to make sure they knew they're getting whatever it is that they want. You are right. I should have done that as opposed to trying to go through the channels that the city already adopted.
Here's a little background info for you: Starbuck has publically stated that they will not have a franchise in the downtown Mesa area. It's pretty bad when you are rejected by Starbucks.
Photographer
images by elahi
Posts: 2523
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Ken Long wrote:
Finding out that you want to shoot after hours could lead to some changes. The only other question for you would be this. While the Art Center is a public place, is it still "privately" owned? I knew of some malls over there that were "private" property, and therefore had thier own enforceable rules on certain issues regarding cameras used on the property and such.
Please understand, I hope that you can do the shoot. I just don't want you to end up in Jail in the process. the centre is PROBABLY supported by some governmental monies and therefore it is public.......even it were were private 99 percent and received 1% governmental grants towards operations, it's public.......
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
Ken Long wrote:
Finding out that you want to shoot after hours could lead to some changes. The only other question for you would be this. While the Art Center is a public place, is it still "privately" owned? I knew of some malls over there that were "private" property, and therefore had thier own enforceable rules on certain issues regarding cameras used on the property and such.
Please understand, I hope that you can do the shoot. I just don't want you to end up in Jail in the process. Ken, this is a GREAT discussion -- it's helping me to vent and deal with the issue.
The Mesa Arts Center is publically owned. It was built with taxpayer's dollars. At 3 a.m., the sidewalks are all open for you to stroll through (this is a rarity, though because nobody is ever in downtown Mesa at 3 a.m.).
And that's the rub. It is public -- but it is being run by pinheads who make kneejerk reactions.
Photographer
images by elahi
Posts: 2523
Atlanta, Georgia, US
SmartAz Photography wrote:
Ken, I kind of agree. However -- they have said, "As long as you have a permit..." They need to make the permit accessable. I went seeking the permit. I'm willing to pay for it. Pay for an off duty officer? Barracades? Isn't that the cost of doing business?
The arts center is basically a theater -- everything happens inside. I only want to shoot -- outside.
Should they bend to my request to shoot? Yes and no. Honestly, if they said that I could shoot there, yet there were some caveats, I would agree to all of them. I just want to shoot there because it's public -- and my tax dollars helped build it. Also, I've spent money for some of their shows. If EllieMae can come here from Nebraska and take pictures in the common/public areas, I should be able to do so, too. EllieMae's pictures are for personal use -- so are mine. I only want them for my and my model's portfolio.
What is the difference between my equipment and EllieMae's equipment? About twenty thousand dollars (remember that I'm shooting with lights). When did it become any US Government's job to decide what equipment that I need to shoot with?
Frankly, I think that my (and your) rights as a US citizen are being trampled. If a place is public, it needs to be just that -- public! no the standard is for the production company to pay the cost of police officer....whether outside or in, it's still public.......
permits are usually free..but they dont have to be....
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
images by elahi wrote:
no the standard is for the production company to pay the cost of police officer....whether outside or in, it's still public.......
permits are usually free..but they dont have to be.... There is no production company. It's just me an' a model who simply want to shoot for our portfolios.
Photographer
images by elahi
Posts: 2523
Atlanta, Georgia, US
SmartAz Photography wrote:
There is no production company. It's just me an' a model who simply want to shoot for our portfolios. youre still a "production company"
Photographer
images by elahi
Posts: 2523
Atlanta, Georgia, US
http://www.mesaartscenter.com/aboutTheCenter.htm just looked this over and I see that they rent the facility Okay, well, if you wanted to pay them I am sure there would be no problem.. The new Mesa Arts Center is a 212,755-square-foot performing arts, visual arts, and arts education facility, the largest and most comprehensive arts center in the state of Arizona. Located in the heart of downtown at Center and Main Streets, Mesa Arts Center reflects the cityâs rich tradition of family, community and pride. An inviting oasis by day and a luminous beacon by night, this central gathering place is designed to showcase a world of arts and culture â everything from art exhibitions to world-class performances to state-of-the-art studios for art education. The design of Mesa Arts Center was inspired by the unique character of the Sonoran Desert â a rich desert, mountain and canyon environment. The campus includes a complex of four theaters, Mesa Contemporary Artsâ galleries and exhibition space, two Art Studios buildings with visual and performing arts studios and classrooms, informal performance areas, administrative support space, and a 700-foot Shadow Walk that creates an inviting, shaded outdoor oasis plaza. Facts About the Center Download the Mesa Arts Center Fact Sheet (PDF) Mission and Vision: The mission of Mesa Arts Center is to inspire people through impacting and engaging arts experiences that are diverse, accessible, and relevant; and that enhance the quality of life and vitality of the greater region. We honor our work place unity of purpose and our interconnectedness, while valuing the significance of individual talents. The vision of Mesa Arts Center is to become the premier arts center in the West. Unique Niche: The new Mesa Arts Center is the largest arts center in the state of Arizona and the only center offering comprehensive professional performing arts, visual arts and arts education programming all on one easily accessible campus. The new Mesa Arts Center is: Mesa's new gathering place A downtown landmark and destination The heart and soul of the Mesa Town Center The anchor of the Mesa Arts and Cultural District An economic development engine for downtown Mesa Capital Funding: $94.5 million Public: $90.8 million, City of Mesa (funds come from "Quality of Life" sales tax approved by voters in 1998) Private: $3.7 million, Mesa Arts Alliance (capital campaign completed in 2004) The Campus: Three buildings located on seven acres; 212,775 square feet Theaters Complex: 4 theaters - 1,588-seat Tom and Janet Ikeda Theater; 550-seat Virginia G. Piper Repertory Theater; 200-seat Nesbitt/Elliott Playhouse; 98-seat Anita Cox Farnsworth Studio Theater; Box Office; continuous lobby; concessions areas; 17 dressing rooms; back-of-house and technical support spaces Outdoor Features: A terraced, desert oasis with a graceful arc of trees, exotic gardens, a running arroyo and other water features, abundant shade from giant canopies, and glass pergolas that cast colorful shadows on the walkways Public Art: Lobby shade screens that shimmer like water and reflect swirling desert sand dunes (Artist Ned Kahn); Colored glass panels inspired by sunset-colored storm clouds on a bridged walkway (Artist Beth Galston); Silver lobby floor medallions that dissolve with changing light (Artist Catherine Widgery) Types of Programming: Theaters: Performing Live presents world-class professional touring entertainment including Broadway-style theater, classical and popular music, ethnic and western artists, dance, family entertainment, and a free concert series; Stageworks (formerly Mesa Youtheatre) produces educational plays for young audiences, and showcases its improvisational theater and dance troupes Mesa Contemporary Arts: Four galleries for changing exhibitions of prominent and emerging artists in sculpture, painting, installations, furniture, ceramics and the Permanent Collection; and a community gallery to showcase work of local artists Art Studios: More than 700 performing and visual arts education classes for youth and adults Programming Philosophy: Mesa Arts Center believes the arts are inclusive and for everyone, and will strive for diversity in all programming
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
images by elahi wrote:
youre still a "production company" Gotcha! An' I'm willing to pay the expenses (cops, barracades, whatever).
Photographer
images by elahi
Posts: 2523
Atlanta, Georgia, US
SmartAz Photography wrote:
Gotcha! An' I'm willing to pay the expenses (cops, barracades, whatever). barricade or tape they should do
anyway, did you speak to this person at City Hall?
Linda Gorman
Interim Marketing & Communications Director
(480) 644-3332
[email protected]
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
images by elahi wrote:
http://www.mesaartscenter.com/aboutTheCenter.htm
just looked this over and I see that they rent the facility
Okay, well, if you wanted to pay them I am sure there would be no problem..
... I don't think they can rent out the public (outside) walkways. I think they rent classrooms and theaters.
Photographer
images by elahi
Posts: 2523
Atlanta, Georgia, US
SmartAz Photography wrote:
I don't think they can rent out the public (outside) walkways. I think they rent classrooms and theaters. Mesa Film - Permits and Insurance
If your company is filming on private property in Mesa, please work directly with the property owner.
To film on property owned by the City of Mesa, such as parks, public rights-of-way, streets, City buildings and other public facilities operated by the City, please contact the City's Marketing and Communications Office. Depending on the City-owned site, such as the Mesa Convention Center, recreation centers and other sites, there may be rental fees. The City requires a certificate of insurance against liability naming the City of Mesa as additionally insured and held harmless for $1 million minimum coverage. The certificate can be faxed to 480-644-5582 or e-mailed to [email protected]. The certificate is filed with the City Attorney's Risk Management office.
If your filming is going to impact pedestrian or vehicular traffic, please contact the Mesa Police Department's off-duty hiring liaison at 480-644-2092. If temporary barricades are required, the names of local barricade companies can be provided.
The City also encourages production companies to inform nearby neighbors and businesses, prior to filming and especially if the filming may be disruptive.
Photographer
AndrewG
Posts: 5850
Mesa, Arizona, US
SmartAz Photography wrote:
I'm pretty pissed right now.
I'm wondering if anyone has been in the following situation, and what did you do?
I live in Phoenix, Az -- specifically, I live in Mesa. The city is a Mormon community and there is a definite "Good ol' Boy" mentality. Recently, the city (which is in financial straights) decided to use tax dollars to build an arts center. It's fukkin beautiful.
I want to photograph a model at the arts center -- so I started jumping through hoops to get permission. You may be asking -- why do I need permission? Why don't I just go there? Well, I want to bring my lights. I want to do this in a highly stylized manner. I want my pictures to be beautiful.
For a week, the public affairs office of the arts center and the city ignored my phone calls and e-mails -- until yesterday.
I was given tentative permission to shoot tonight -- and on Sunday. This morning, however, I received an e-mail which said that they didn't "have a policy on this issue." So for now, they said, I couldn't shoot.
They said that in June, I could reapply -- as long as I gave them two-weeks notice. Now I don't know if you've ever been to Phoenix in June, but you can trust me when I say that it is fukkin' HOT. Nobody wants to go outside, let alone model and get their clothes all sweaty.
The funny thing is: The City, in order to get a film permit asks for a certificate stating that I have $1M of liability insurance. I have $2M.
Is it me -- or has anyone else been in this situation?
Tony Tony, Tony, Tony... first calm down.. I know you are pissed and upset..
I too live in Mesa, and used to use the ampitheatre at Superstition Springs Mall for photo shoots of Models... they tore it up last year.. I havent been back to that Mall since.
Look in my portfolio here on MM.. I shot Shawna at the Mesa Arts Center.. and I had fre reign of all the public areas.. NO PERMIT NEEDED. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.. and the Art Center Securtiy even stood around and watched part of the shoot, even told us where the model could go to change outfits..
When we got there.. I asked the Security where we could shoot and hwere we couldnt. He told us we could shoot in any public area. WE did, and we had a blast.
I have been there twice since then and not had any problems...
Mesa police have even told me that any Mesa park is ok to shoot in. I even shoot at a few of the local parks.. never had a problem.
I shoot in the day time so that might be why, but Shooting in the downtown area at night isnt safe .. trust me.. the drunks, the homeless, and the gangs around the downtown area are only looking to screw with you.
Shoot in the day time.. no lights, use a reflector or two.. and enjoy it..
Andrew
Photographer
images by elahi
Posts: 2523
Atlanta, Georgia, US
last thing from me...I was just dealing with it as if it were a Production I was working on as First AD or Production MAnager......
you know what I think?
they arent giving you a hard time, they just dont have a written policy in the ARts centre coviering what youre asking for and they have to make sure their asses are covered....also, what youre asking--they cant charge you for! LOL ooopps! their bad.
Photographer
102640
Posts: 6
Carlsbad, California, US
You can shoot photos of anything, anyone, anywhere for editorial purposes as long as you are not invading someones private space (like their house or private business) without permission. I always get permission just to be nice but realisticaly it sounds like you are trying to shoot in a public place. If you live in Arizona you probably helped to pay for the place.
I never shoot any stuff for advertising so I do not know about those rules.
George
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
images by elahi wrote:
Mesa Film - Permits and Insurance
If your company is filming on private property in Mesa, please work directly with the property owner.
To film on property owned by the City of Mesa, such as parks, public rights-of-way, streets, City buildings and other public facilities operated by the City, please contact the City's Marketing and Communications Office. Depending on the City-owned site, such as the Mesa Convention Center, recreation centers and other sites, there may be rental fees. The City requires a certificate of insurance against liability naming the City of Mesa as additionally insured and held harmless for $1 million minimum coverage. The certificate can be faxed to 480-644-5582 or e-mailed to [email protected]. The certificate is filed with the City Attorney's Risk Management office.
If your filming is going to impact pedestrian or vehicular traffic, please contact the Mesa Police Department's off-duty hiring liaison at 480-644-2092. If temporary barricades are required, the names of local barricade companies can be provided.
The City also encourages production companies to inform nearby neighbors and businesses, prior to filming and especially if the filming may be disruptive. This is where my trauma started -- one week ago.
Photographer
AndrewG
Posts: 5850
Mesa, Arizona, US
SmartAz Photography wrote:
This is where my trauma started -- one week ago. There's your problem.. you told them that your company was doing the shoot. I just told them I was a photographer and wanted to take pictures of this woman.
Photographer
images by elahi
Posts: 2523
Atlanta, Georgia, US
AndrewG wrote:
There's your problem.. you told them that your company was doing the shoot. I just told them I was a photographer and wanted to take pictures of this woman. hm...sometimes that's necessary..or you can say "Student project."
But there is no reason why they should not accomodate you as a commercial photographer who wants to use a public facility
once they set up their system, it'll be easy to navigate....apparentl, youre the trend-setter...youre the one who will make the change
Photographer
images by elahi
Posts: 2523
Atlanta, Georgia, US
SmartAz Photography wrote:
This is where my trauma started -- one week ago. and this is where they told you to fax the permit, right. and you did. Didnt here form them and/or you were told "no" becasue there is no policy...am i correct?
do they have a standard permit application?
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
AndrewG wrote:
Tony, Tony, Tony... first calm down.. I know you are pissed and upset..
I too live in Mesa, and used to use the ampitheatre at Superstition Springs Mall for photo shoots of Models... they tore it up last year.. I havent been back to that Mall since.
Look in my portfolio here on MM.. I shot Shawna at the Mesa Arts Center.. and I had fre reign of all the public areas.. NO PERMIT NEEDED. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.. and the Art Center Securtiy even stood around and watched part of the shoot, even told us where the model could go to change outfits..
When we got there.. I asked the Security where we could shoot and hwere we couldnt. He told us we could shoot in any public area. WE did, and we had a blast.
Shoot in the day time.. no lights, use a reflector or two.. and enjoy it..
Andrew Andrew, it's really nice to make your acquantance and to dialogue with you on this.
I think your advice is good, but think of this: Should any government entity have the right to limit how you shoot something in public? If you plan on breaking the law yes (shooting a nude model in a public place).
As you know, after the sun goes down in Mesa, everyone goes to Tempe. I should have the place to myself. I went there last night to scout the location and it was empty.
The gang issue doesn't bother me. I don't think the gangs wanna mess with a 200 lb idiot who packs a .40 cal Glock Model 22 and a concealed weapon's permit (ya got to protect your model and your equipment).
The bottom line: I should be able to take my picture my way -- not theirs.
As a sidebar, what if the City of Mesa/Mesa Arts Center wanted to have some photography done. Would there be any restrictions? You can't have it both ways.
Photographer
images by elahi
Posts: 2523
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Okay, although I am tempted to, I cant take this on: here are your state laws http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp somewhere in there (theoretically) are the laws that govern your situation. I suggest you TRULY empoer yourself by researching it..I know all you want is to shoot but I GUESS THAT ISNT AS EASY AS YOU THOUGHT LOL now you can call the Governor's office and ask them: "what are the STate Codes governing a photograpger being able to use a public facility for a shoot.." and they should help you in some way..... Hierarchy: State Law City LAW (although they are sovereign municipalities, State Law supersedes...) Public facility rules and regulations so although the Arts Center doesnt have rules regarding what you want, the City should and if they dont, then the State should...
Photographer
John Emrys
Posts: 45
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
SmartAz Photography wrote:
Is it me -- or has anyone else been in this situation?
Tony Oh yeah, been there. Many times.
It's not you.
The reality is that your shoot is just not important enough for them. If you walked in offering a film budget (instead of requesting permission for stills), you can bet they'd develop a policy on that right away.
Let it go; whether the location is amazing or not, you're dealing with basement bureaucracy, and they don't have decision-making capability.
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
It looks like this thread has about run it's course.
I'd like to thank everyone who has chimed in (and those who add more, later). You've helped me to vent and get this off my chest.
Tony
Photographer
Vito
Posts: 4582
Brooklyn, New York, US
SmartAz Photography wrote:
Andrew, it's really nice to make your acquantance and to dialogue with you on this.
I think your advice is good, but think of this: Should any government entity have the right to limit how you shoot something in public? If you plan on breaking the law yes (shooting a nude model in a public place).
As you know, after the sun goes down in Mesa, everyone goes to Tempe. I should have the place to myself. I went there last night to scout the location and it was empty.
The gang issue doesn't bother me. I don't think the gangs wanna mess with a 200 lb idiot who packs a .40 cal Glock Model 22 and a concealed weapon's permit (ya got to protect your model and your equipment).
The bottom line: I should be able to take my picture my way -- not theirs.
As a sidebar, what if the City of Mesa/Mesa Arts Center wanted to have some photography done. Would there be any restrictions? You can't have it both ways. One question. Where are you getting power from for your lighting?
Photographer
DV8
Posts: 140
Lewisville, Texas, US
i would inform your local media they will help in your fight for those freedom's more than anyone, because it effects them too. You are a taxpayer and you do have a right to be in those areas , just maybe not during non-visitation hours and using their electrical outlets. for that you will have to go along with their waiting it out crap.
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
Vito wrote:
One question. Where are you getting power from for your lighting? That's a good question to ask. I have a powerpack that can run up to twenty lights. I only will be using four. I'm only interested in paying my own way -- and creating art.
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
AndrewG wrote:
There's your problem.. you told them that your company was doing the shoot. I just told them I was a photographer and wanted to take pictures of this woman. Oh no. I told them that I was working on a personal project for my own portfolio. Because they would see lighting equipment, it was important to disclose that I am a professional photographer. (if only I were making money.)
Photographer
Valkyrur
Posts: 1187
Nelsonville, New York, US
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
************** Situation Update ****************************
I got someone on my side with the City of Mesa. They called the appropriate people and called me back. They said it was all good and that I could shoot. They said I just needed to call the arts center and let them know when i would be shooting.
I called the center to get the first guy who never returned any of my calls. He didn't answer. I left a message.
Ten minutes later the guy called me back to say (with a passive-agressive tone) that I could shoot to my heart's content. As long as I didn't bring lights. He said that lights become a liability as soon as you plug them in. I explained my insurance policy was more than the City required and that I am willing to get a permit -- if I could just get the permit people to cooperate. I also said that my lights were self contained as I have a battery pack that can run more lights than I own.
Mr Pinhead from the arts center said, "Well, it's your choice, we can hang up and you can shoot to your heart's content, or if you insist on using lights, I will have to run you through the rental department." This fukker is making shitake up on the fly.
I told him to connect me with the rental department (that was closed).
I've since contacted the Mayor (what do I have to lose? It seems that I can shoot without lights). I don't need a pinhead changing the rules every time I turn around.
T
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 6209
San Diego, California, US
Hey Tony,
Maybe you could document the whole thing and sell it also. You know, sorta like Christo does to support their projects? Make it a comic look at small government. "Falling Down part 17"
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
I never mentioned this but -- this is the same city government that was on 60 Minutes because they tried to illegally take a man's brake shop with emminant domain.
Photographer
BCG
Posts: 7316
San Antonio, Florida, US
try photographing the Alamo...i would rather deal with mormons than with the daughters of the republic...you WILL be told to stop if you even think of using a tripod.
Photographer
Rp-photo
Posts: 42711
Houston, Texas, US
BCG wrote:
try photographing the Alamo...i would rather deal with mormons than with the daughters of the republic...you WILL be told to stop if you even think of using a tripod. What's up with that? What building could possibly belong to the people, especially Texans, more than the Alamo?
It sounds like the daughters of the republic are soccer great-grandmoms!
How did they handle Ozzy Osbourne?
Photographer
Rp-photo
Posts: 42711
Houston, Texas, US
images by elahi wrote:
http://www.mesaartscenter.com/aboutTheCenter.htm
just looked this over and I see that they rent the facility
Okay, well, if you wanted to pay them I am sure there would be no problem.. Anyone else see the hypocrisy?
If their mission is to promote art and culture, what better way than for allowing photographers to make art there?
If they want respect near and far, what better way than to have the place featured in a diverse variety of images?
When someone creates a beautiful place, promotes it to the public on the basis of that beauty, and discourages photographers, I call this having their cake and eating it too!
As far as differentiaton between commercial or non-commercial, the rule shoud be "non-comercial unless proven otherwise", as is true in most other walks of life.
I once made an analogy to sport fishing. Rules are different for sport and commercial fishing, but no game warden is going to assume someone must be commercial just because of fancy tackle!
Photographer
images by elahi
Posts: 2523
Atlanta, Georgia, US
rp_photo wrote:
Anyone else see the hypocrisy?
If their mission is to promote art and culture, what better way than for allowing photographers to make art there?
If they want respect near and far, what better way than to have the place featured in a diverse variety of images?
When someone creates a beautiful place, promotes it to the public on the basis of that beauty, and discourages photographers, I call this having their cake and eating it too!
As far as differentiaton between commercial or non-commercial, the rule shoud be "non-comercial unless proven otherwise", as is true in most other walks of life.
I once made an analogy to sport fishing. Rules are different for sport and commercial fishing, but no game warden is going to assume someone must be commercial just because of fancy tackle! perfect logic...you should be there managaing the facility......man, they tend not to think that way.....if they did, they probably wouldn have gotten the position in the first place
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
************************ SITUATION UPDATE *****************************
At 4:30, yesterday I was told that I could shoot -- Hooray!
At 4:45 the pinhead in marketing said that I could shoot as long as I didn't light anything. If I lit stuff I would need to have $1M insurance and I would have to rent the facility. I told him for about the 48th time that I had insurance and I would gladly pay. He went on to tell me that I could shoot to my heart's content and started in with some "holier than though crap" and then in a passive aggressive tone said, "so what's it going to be? Shoot for free -- or do I need to turn you over to the Rental Department?" I told him to give me the f'in' rental department. He put me on hold as he transferred the call (I know he was telling the person, "put this guy through to voice mail while I fill you in."). I left a message.
After leaving the message, I took two Fukkitalls and then wrote a nasty letter to the Mayor.
At nine o'clock this morning, I put a call in to the Rental Department of the Mesa Arts Center and though I was given a little tongue lashing ("Oh yeah, I've heard about you and this situation."), I took it and kept everything to the business at hand. I was curious to see what "the cost" would be. I was again reminded that there is no policy (blah, blah, blah), but this one time ONLY they would let me shoot for free! (Thank you, Jesus)
Now here is the cool thing: When I got home from school, I had an e-mail from the Mayor. He said that he would be contacting the art center's cultural director to get to the bottom of this. I wrote back stating that the situation has been taken care of. The Mayor wrote back saying that he would call the director anyway so that the process could be streamlined in the future. Cool.
As I mentioned, my letter to the mayor was pretty nasty. It contained only the facts and no emotion. I was very firm and pointed out that a tax election was coming up and that they weren't being very good stewards of the public money as it was.
As I closed my letter, I suggested ways they could improve the situation -- and then I said that I wanted an apology.
Five minutes before I wrote this update, the top person at the Mesa Arts Center called me and very sincerely apologized (pinch me -- am I dreaming?)! She said this should never have happened like this and it will never happen again. She also said that the responsible people would be dealt with because of their "poor customer service."
Today is a good day. I fought City Hall -- and won!
Photographer
Steve Gardner Photo
Posts: 96
Delta, Colorado, US
Capt. Blei wins again. At least you didn't have to break out your picket signs this time.
Photographer
Maximum Impact
Posts: 142
Worcester, Massachusetts, US
Phoenix in June ! Camelback is smoking hot that time of year. Leaving the airport even at night is like hitting a wall of heat. As far as insurance goes that is standard practice as you know... but the read tape still makes us crazy. I placed a call to Easter Penn in PA ... they continue to blow off my calls and emails. SmartAz Photography wrote:
I'm pretty pissed right now.
I'm wondering if anyone has been in the following situation, and what did you do?
I live in Phoenix, Az -- specifically, I live in Mesa. The city is a Mormon community and there is a definite "Good ol' Boy" mentality. Recently, the city (which is in financial straights) decided to use tax dollars to build an arts center. It's fukkin beautiful.
I want to photograph a model at the arts center -- so I started jumping through hoops to get permission. You may be asking -- why do I need permission? Why don't I just go there? Well, I want to bring my lights. I want to do this in a highly stylized manner. I want my pictures to be beautiful.
For a week, the public affairs office of the arts center and the city ignored my phone calls and e-mails -- until yesterday.
I was given tentative permission to shoot tonight -- and on Sunday. This morning, however, I received an e-mail which said that they didn't "have a policy on this issue." So for now, they said, I couldn't shoot.
They said that in June, I could reapply -- as long as I gave them two-weeks notice. Now I don't know if you've ever been to Phoenix in June, but you can trust me when I say that it is fukkin' HOT. Nobody wants to go outside, let alone model and get their clothes all sweaty.
The funny thing is: The City, in order to get a film permit asks for a certificate stating that I have $1M of liability insurance. I have $2M.
Is it me -- or has anyone else been in this situation?
Tony
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