Jay Dezelic wrote:

Thanks Craig!  I hope we can shoot again soon now that the weather is getting better.  If more photogs were like you then MM would be a more balanced place of artistic talent.

Thank you Jay, I'm interested in working with you again as well.

I think we both agreed that when the weather warmed up we would look at the calendar and schedule another session.
I'm in Seattle on Thursdays and could meet you around noon and shoot till 3:30 PM if that works for you. I’d love to find where those cars were moved to and shoot there.

Jay Dezelic wrote:

Why are male models often associated with conservative styles like polo shirts?  You can dress them in other things too.  If they will only model polo shirts, are you really talking about real models or just your average joe?

I'm not saying all male models dress like this by any means... I mean, look at Perish's port for instance... I merely meant there aren't a lot of male Alt-type models near me :-(

Craig Thomson wrote:
Thank you Jay, I'm interested in working with you again as well.

I think we both agreed that when the weather warmed up we would look at the calendar and schedule another session.
I'm in Seattle on Thursdays and could meet you around noon and shoot till 3:30 PM if that works for you. I’d love to find where those cars were moved to and shoot there.

Thurs is good.  I will PM you.

The Thorny Rose wrote:
I'm not saying all male models dress like this by any means... I mean, look at Perish's port for instance... I merely meant there aren't a lot of male Alt-type models near me :-(

There is not as many male models on MM because the demand is not as high. - So it's harder to find those who do alt modeling in small markets. But they are out there.

dncphotos wrote:
working with male models is cool...
however a few I have worked with want to mean mug and pose hard  like they are rappers as thier only way of posing. How many mean stares and holding your nuts shots can one do???

I like the diversity and versatility in posing by female models.

Not the "I'm not gonna smile and pose in any gay like ways" that alot of aspiring and a few accomplished male models say and think.

Ok, that is precisely what I DON'T like about shooting male models in general. Not every male, but an awful lot of males in general have exactly ONE look, their own version of the tough guy look (though it's slightly different from one to the next) that they simply refuse to be coaxed out of. Anybody remember Zoolander?

gsvb wrote:
I dont carry photographers gear
And am not at all eager to shoot with anyone on this site
but...interesting topic

Dammit, you're actually perfect for a branding catelog I'm shooting next week for a very interesting jewelry designer (imagine if you will Manolo Blahnik if he were making jewelry instead of shoes, and and not using any precious stones). With all the amazing faces there are in Croatia, finding a decent male model who is anything but a 20 year old fashion Zoolander type (yes, that stereotypically) is way harder than it should be. I'm thinking about tossing this pile of agency comp cards and looking for actors...

Jay Dezelic wrote:
7.) Male models are usually more mechanically inclined and can help you carry your gear.

9.) Male models can navigate to your studio or location with a simple map or address - making them slightly more punctual.

Whilst I thought the post was generally quite funny, these two points irked me a little. I am more than happy to help carry equipment. And I'm a puny girl. As for getting to studios, I am on time, if not before, 99% of the time. When I am not, it is always due to public transport letting me down in a BIG way. And I use a map. So there.

John Chainz wrote:
I second the not getting 1000 requests thing stated at the beginning lol. ive been here for over a year and have had uh...2?3??

I find it interesting that even the least experienced female models reportedly get dozens if not hundreds of requests per month to shoot.  While many of the requests can probably be written off as GWC's looking for romance, it still seems to be a very disproportionate situation.  I think a lot of (male) photogs are shy about asking male models to do a shoot. 

I was just looking at photog ports in Boston because I am going there in a few weeks and would like to find someone to shoot with.  I could not help but notice that the female photog ports generally had almost an equal range of girl and guy models. But the male photogs only had female models.  The few guys I had seen in the ports of male photogs were always the "tough guy" look.  The female photogs had as wide a variety of male poses as they did female poses.

Are male photogs sometimes apprehensive about shooting male models because they might be concerned about what people may think?  What keeps MM photogs from using more male models in similar proportions as their industry counterparts in the real world of fashion, advertising, and art?

Marko...
Damn..what can I say...
Im sure they would have come up with my Dayrate..Hotel ..and Flight...
Annnnyyywwwwayyyy...
Have a great weekend mate.

Jay Dezelic wrote:

I find it interesting that even the least experienced female models reportedly get dozens if not hundreds of requests per month to shoot.  While many of the requests can probably be written off as GWC's looking for romance, it still seems to be a very disproportionate situation.  I think a lot of (male) photogs are shy about asking male models to do a shoot. 

I was just looking at photog ports in Boston because I am going there in a few weeks and would like to find someone to shoot with.  I could not help but notice that the female photog ports generally had almost an equal range of girl and guy models. But the male photogs only had female models.  The few guys I had seen in the ports of male photogs were always the "tough guy" look.  The female photogs had as wide a variety of male poses as they did female poses.

Are male photogs sometimes apprehensive about shooting male models because they might be concerned about what people may think?  What keeps MM photogs from using more male models in similar proportions as their industry counterparts in the real world of fashion, advertising, and art?

I've gotten the idea that a lot of photogs that don't shoot males don't do so because they are unsure how to shoot a guy.  I've been on a couple of shoots where the 'tog was puzzled simply because he didn't know what poses or angles would be suitable.  Maybe men find it hard to work with subjects they don't find attractive.  I wonder what these guys are going to do when it's time for their prostate exams, lol

Photos by Mac wrote:
This is what I can tell you all about male models in the Olympia/Seattle area:

1) There are lots of them that are eager to work and rarely get work

2) None of the ones I've worked with had that "hard" look thing going on during the shoot.  In fact, I had to work with one guy to get that kinda look from him...

3) Most of the photogs that I talk to only shoot male models (or males who aren't models) that they know.  It seems as though photogs in general are intimidated by the idea of approaching male models.

4) Many of the male models in this area that I have talked to are on the verge of giving up do to lack of work requests.

I work with male and female models.  I haven't noticed much difference in working with iether.  Technically, males don't need to bring an escort.  But, none of my female models ever bring one anyway... Both have been eager to work....etc...

Personally, I like to see portfolios that have a lot of diversity.  It's ok to have a paticular style. But, if all your images are "the same thing with a different girl", it gets boring.  And people will wonder if you are capable of shooting anything else...

I defiantely agree that there's a lack of Profesional opportunities for male models (actaully it seems Seattle is a fairly bad place for  intelligent males to get a start in general in any field).  I peronsally perfer to  work with men, and I'm a male photographer.  The thing is I don't pay becuase I'm broke.  If I had money I'd share. Women are  MORE work from the word GO, and much more common, hence are able to be much pickier and such.

shelly1982 wrote:
I can't wait for Dennis to come over to shoot with me hopefully at the tail end of this year..
I just want some cool black and white shots and also a shot where i am being tickled kinda natural i think as i am very tickleish could go good or bad me thinks hahaha..

no i am looking forward to working with him at some point..

any other takers though for the mean time?

**ahem**

xx shelly xx

Coooolll! I'm being mentioned in a forum post! Actually mentioned! Thank you Shelly And yes....it will happen eventually...just have no clue when yet

gsvb wrote:
Dammit, you're actually perfect for a branding catelog I'm shooting next week for a very interesting jewelry designer (imagine if you will Manolo Blahnik if he were making jewelry instead of shoes, and and not using any precious stones). With all the amazing faces there are in Croatia, finding a decent male model who is anything but a 20 year old fashion Zoolander type (yes, that stereotypically) is way harder than it should be. I'm thinking about tossing this pile of agency comp cards and looking for actors...

Marko...
Damn..what can I say...
Im sure they would have come up with my Dayrate..Hotel ..and Flight...
Annnnyyywwwwayyyy...
Have a great weekend mate.

Of course they wouldn't have. ;-)

Paulo Rodrigues wrote:
I'm surprised no woman here has come up with the #1 reason to shoot men.

#1 Because they are all b*stards

LOL

Jay Dezelic wrote:

Umm... Did you have a sex change recently? I don't see the relevance here.

umm you asked what the top reasons were to shoot with a male model right?
well i was just stating my enthusiasm for it.
I think its a good reason to look forward to something

get the relevance now?

cheers

xx shelly xx

JenniferMaria wrote:
Love it! You should make a fridge magnet with this!

I love shooting both male and female models.

Now if only I got as much attention with my male Avitars as I do with my female Avis. I guess I better tweak my perspective a bit when I shoot the boys, huh? Jay, what do you think?

Measuring attention on MM is a little misleading since it is far more common for horny guys to cruise the Internet looking for sexy girl photos than vise versa for some reason.  - I guess it's just a more socially acceptable in our society.  But those aren't the people you probably care to measure unless you plan to do pay-sites or something along those lines.

Small pictures such as avatars need to have a striking look that draws maximum attention too.  Since it is more common to enhance eyes on female models with makeup, smaller images of females may have better visibility since the eyes are often more prominent.  If you want male images to draw more attention in avatars, then try enhancing the eyes.

Your guy shots are great by the way.

Laurent P wrote:
From what I've seen, most of the photographers who are interested in shooting guys are gay and want to do nude shots...

Now theres nothing wrong with it if that's your thing but it says on my profile that I don't do that kind of shoots. I find it annoying to still get bugged by those photographers.

Also a lot of the other photographers seem to be into shooting girls only... and not just because it's what sells. I've never seen so many people doing studies on the naked female body.

I guess it was all somewhat to be expected.

It sounds like you are referring to the GWC's who frequent the online model sites in lieu of magazine stands and porn sites.  Unfortunately it can't be avoided on a public forum like this.  There will always be those who use art and photography as a ruse.  Those people are not professional photographers and are not whom I have referred to in this thread.

Not withstanding the GWC's, there is still a disproportionate number of photographers on MM (Professional, semi-professional, and soon-to be pros) who only shoot female models.  The purpose of this thread was to bring to the attention of MM photographers the fact that there is an available talent pool of male models on MM who are not being substantially utilized. 

Because of the GWC's, pay-site shooters, and guy-shooting-girl hobbyists, many new photographers who use MM as there view of the photography world are skewed into believing that it is normal to shoot exclusively with female models. - While in the real world, the ratio of male to female work is substantially more even.

Laurent P wrote:
From what I've seen, most of the photographers who are interested in shooting guys are gay and want to do nude shots...

Now theres nothing wrong with it if that's your thing but it says on my profile that I don't do that kind of shoots. I find it annoying to still get bugged by those photographers.

Also a lot of the other photographers seem to be into shooting girls only... and not just because it's what sells. I've never seen so many people doing studies on the naked female body.

I guess it was all somewhat to be expected.

This is another reason I don't often deal with male models.  They're so po-faced, stuck up and self-important they can't get past the idea that every guy on earth is looking at their ass long enough to accomplish anything.  If you guys could hear yourselves talking, you wouldn't want to work with yourselves.

Keep it up you guys!  At this rate you'll always be second-class citizens in this business.

Laurent P wrote:
From what I've seen, most of the photographers who are interested in shooting guys are gay and want to do nude shots...

I'm totally straight, and want to do nude shoots. 

gsvb wrote:
I dont carry photographers gear
And am not at all eager to shoot with anyone on this site
but...interesting topic

So then why are you even here?  This site has been getting along quite well without additional snobbery.

Jay Dezelic wrote:

Measuring attention on MM is a little misleading since it is far more common for horny guys to cruise the Internet looking for sexy girl photos than vise versa for some reason.  - I guess it's just a more socially acceptable in our society.  But those aren't the people you probably care to measure unless you plan to do pay-sites or something along those lines.

Small pictures such as avatars need to have a striking look that draws maximum attention too.  Since it is more common to enhance eyes on female models with makeup, smaller images of females may have better visibility since the eyes are often more prominent.  If you want male images to draw more attention in avatars, then try enhancing the eyes.

Gracias, Jay. Enhance the eyes. I generally try to stay away from obvious reasons why people would click on a picture, so the eye-enhancer is right up my alley. And I have seen quite a few men in my day who have absolutely enchanting eyes.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
This is another reason I don't often deal with male models.  They're so po-faced, stuck up and self-important they can't get past the idea that every guy on earth is looking at their ass long enough to accomplish anything.  If you guys could hear yourselves talking, you wouldn't want to work with yourselves.

Keep it up you guys!  At this rate you'll always be second-class citizens in this business.

The concept of being a "prima donna" is not exclusively female.  Fortunately, not all of us male models are so judgmental.  Many of us are kind of like the Maytag repair guy. - Just waiting for your call.

Jay Dezelic wrote:
The concept of being a "prima donna" is not exclusively female.  Fortunately, not all of us male models are so judgmental.  Many of us are kind of like the Maytag repair guy. - Just waiting for your call.

The problem is that when a woman is being a prima dona, we tend to think of Maria Callas and Dean Johnson.  When a man does it, we just think of that Right Said Fred video.

Too sexy for your shirt, boys?

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:

The problem is that when a woman is being a prima dona, we tend to think of Maria Callas and Kate Moss.  When a man does it, we just think of that Right Said Fred video.

Too sexy for your shirt, boys?

It could be that you are too personally involved with who the model is.  What I mean is that the opposite perception could be true if you were a female photographer from what you are saying.  People are people.  Each and every one of us is different.  Just pass on the ones that you wish not to work with and be cautious about applying broad assumptions on such a large group. - Are you the kind of person you describe by virtue of being a male?  I am sure that you will find male models that are easier to work with than what you have experienced.  You just have to look a little harder since it is a smaller market.

Jay Dezelic wrote:

It could be that you are too personally involved with who the model is.  What I mean is that the opposite perception could be true if you were a female photographer from what you are saying.  People are people.  Each and every one of us is different.  Just pass on the ones that you wish not to work with and be cautious about applying broad assumptions on such a large group. - Are you the kind of person you describe by virtue of being a male?  I am sure that you will find male models that are easier to work with than what you have experienced.  You just have to look a little harder since it is a smaller market.

It's not a matter of personal involvement:  Take a look at the two most recent posts by male "models" in this thread.  One is "too good" to work with anybody here and the other is more worried about guys putting the moves on him than anything else.  I can't recall the last time I hear any of this nonsense froma seious female model.

To be blunt, I'm pretty much past the point where I have to "look" for models at all.  My work is fairly well known and I have an excellent reputation [for a pornographer anyway].  I'm at the point where people seek me out as someone worth working with.  It would be nice to have more men involved in my work, but I can afford to be patient and wait for someone who dosen't have the usual isssues male models do.

Laurent P wrote:
From what I've seen, most of the photographers who are interested in shooting guys are gay and want to do nude shots...

Now theres nothing wrong with it if that's your thing but it says on my profile that I don't do that kind of shoots. I find it annoying to still get bugged by those photographers.

Also a lot of the other photographers seem to be into shooting girls only... and not just because it's what sells. I've never seen so many people doing studies on the naked female body.

I guess it was all somewhat to be expected.

Laurent-

You have to study the male model market and understand
it- it is pretty eye opening to who your fan base is. I suggest that to many males getting into the business.

cheers

Jay Dezelic wrote:
Ok I thought I would submit this light-humored list of reasons to shoot with a male model because I see that about 95% of the photography on MM is with female models - (While the real world of pro photography seams to be substantially less sexually biased).

1.) Your port will look more like a real people photographer than a guy who just likes to shoot scantly clad chicks.

8.) Male models are less common subjects then female models and show others that you have the ability to shoot without breasts being a fundamental  element of your work.

Believe it or not, some of us can actually shoot women with clothes on. It's just hard to find us with all the T & A on mm.

aguynamededdy wrote:

Believe it or not, some of us can actually shoot women with clothes on. It's just hard to find us with all the T & A on mm.

Beautiful work.  Why no male models though?