Misty M wrote:
Absolutley!! I am so pissed. A NYC tog saw my pics and liked my look and wanted me to come out to shoot  pictures in a recording studio and to set up props in the vacant building next store for some fun shots. This included a mua too, but failed to mention there would be rappers there as well. I got there the time requested and had my hair and makeup done and the wardrobe to go through my clothes and pick out the outfit for the shoot. I waited to be shot. Waited and waited finally I left. Now... I just learned that the rappers who I was to have pictures taken with did not like me. I am so pissed right now that nothing was said to me right away. The unproffessionalism and the lack of communication; just really makes me mad. A big waste of my time. Live and learn. I should have met them all before the shoot.
Forgive me I am venting and have never been treated like this before.

Sounds like the full details of the shoot were not divulged by the photographer.

Shame on him

J.K. Perez, Sr. wrote:
I dunno. The more and more I read your bolded and underlined statement, the more and more I feel that only single-status and non-professional people with a "date mentality", suffer from that "awkward initial encounter". Isn't that what single people do, "Encounter each other"? Maybe, photography is the only way some can get close to a babe/date to begin with? (Note: non-professional = not a business of any kind. Single-status = not in a relationship).

By the way Mikey. Was yours, a professional opinion, or an attempt to "one-up and supercede", my previous and professional opinion? You seem to like doing that. Coming off as some kinda Chinese know-it-all with a Calculus in one hand, digital camera in the other, and a Black Belt in Photography and Modeling (I'm a tenth Chinese and born a few days before Bruce Lee. So I feel like I can talk shit comfortably and not give a flying fuck if I offend anyone). If I recall, you wrote that you're just doing it for fun. I actually do it as a business and for profit, and many of your opinions on these kinds of topics just doesn't have a lot of bearing on the reality as I see and experience it. Maybe, it works on the University chicks you "awkwardly encounter", on campus, but probably not so with the women I've worked with. Maybe, when I become single and start sniffing around for some pussy, I might understand better where the fuck you're come from with some of your arrogant comments (many of them I personally set you up for).

Until then, for me, and possibly a whole lot of other serious photographers out there, there's no such thing as an "awkward initial encounter" with models we worked with and choose to work with. Simply because, if we meet, it's to work the craft of photography and modeling, with a goal in mind -- better images. Not, expose each other to our naked privates, point at them, giggle a bit and swap spit for the first time.

Of course, I'm not implying you're like that in real life, but the words you wrote up there, certainly gives me that kind of impression.

"Regardless of whether it's TFP or not"

Really? Why "regardless"? Pretty strong statement for someone just doing photography for fun.

"Meeting first and getting past the awkward initial encounter does wonders."

Really? How so? In what way does it do "wonders"? What kind of "wonders", are you talking about here, that you couldn't derive from seeing her online images for the first time, and through an initial e-mail and, or phone conversation?

Dude, where the hell did that come from?!?

Seriously, quit it with the conspiracy theories. You're not funny, and you're extremely offensive. At this point you're bordering on libel.

If you question my ethics or the way I work, then feel free to contact all the models I've shot with and ask about me. I have them listed in my profile.

Craig Thomson wrote:

Sounds like the full details of the shoot were not divulged by the photographer.

Shame on him

Yes, shame on him and thank you for your post.

Misty M wrote:

Yes, shame on him and thank you for your post.

I feel it's a lack of common sense to not fill everyone in on the conditions of the shoot prior to the shoot date.

See I have this wild ass model that wants to shoot something dark and way outside of the norm for her and we’ve started emailing each other to collaborate on the theme and set ideas.
I think its called teamwork.

Kelly Kooper wrote:
If you are a little apprehensive about a shoot, would you see it as unprofessional to ask to meet beforehand to discuss the finer points i.e. what you are hoping to achieve. I've agreed to a TFP shoot with an experienced and established photographer in Melbourne. I've heard good things about me but I have a few question marks about things said over emails and I would feel much more comfortable if we met face to face and I got a better idea of who I'd be working with. Is this unreasonable? Why/Why not?

VirtuaMike wrote:
Dude, where the hell did that come from?!?

Seriously, quit it with the conspiracy theories. You're not funny, and you're extremely offensive. At this point you're bordering on libel.

If you question my ethics or the way I work, then feel free to contact all the models I've shot with and ask about me. I have them listed in my profile.

Let's backtrack. I made a professional opinion based on what I know as a businessman with combined and proven experience as an amateur, semi-pro and professional shooter, for the military, as a civilian freelancer and as a business owner. You, contradicted my opinion, thus, disqualifying my experience and knowledge  ...and I had great issue with it.

In large part, due to your usage of the word, "Regardless", in your opinion, and in part, from the knowledge that you don't shoot professionally. That you do it for fun. Meaning, a hobby.

To me, the use of the word, "regardless", implies an authoritative and dictatorial position. In other words, attempting to dictate to people, models and photographers, experienced and inexperienced, what they should do before a photo shoot. I would be remiss as a working professional photographer, if I didn't ask you why. And my reasoning and justification for feeling the need to ask you why, included an articulation of a possible interpretation, or reasoning, or hidden meaning behind and for your statement. It's my purpose to determine what the meaning is and by supplying at least one possibility, greatly reduces the number of possibilities, by one, that we can discuss surrounding meetings before shoots. I merely attempted to shave off a second, or two from a discussion that has the potential to expand into several thousand posts.

If you notice, I wrote a little qualifying disclaimer to ensure that I can't be accused of libel, "Of course, I'm not implying you're like that in real life, but the words you wrote up there, certainly gives me that kind of impression." (note: there is no reciprocal disclaimer for your contradiction of my professional opinion)

An impression that I articulated as one, out of many possible impressions derived from an individual interpretation of a reading of a statement and opinion such as the one you made. My follow up emphatically stressed, in more ways than one, that photographers such as myself, should not be viewed and lumped into any potential stereotypes having anything to do with "dating", which many of us know, is often associated with, "awkward encounters". Since this is a public forum, and a highly volatile environment often consisting of fear, insecurities, paranoia and contempt, I felt it was necessary to respond in a manner of a layman's approach.

So, I feel compelled to ask once again, why do you feel that, regardless if it is a TFP shoot or not, why should Models and Photographers consistently arrange a meeting before a shoot? What is the basis for that opinion other than, it does wonders?

Your insight is needed. A list, or breakdown of some sort describing the wonders, would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thank you.

Edited: I seriously want to know what those wonders are, because I may be missing something vital and important to my individual application of photography and meeting models over the Internet. 2006 is my year for self-improvement. Please help.

Kelly Kooper wrote:
If you are a little apprehensive about a shoot, would you see it as unprofessional to ask to meet beforehand to discuss the finer points i.e. what you are hoping to achieve. I've agreed to a TFP shoot with an experienced and established photographer in Melbourne. I've heard good things about me but I have a few question marks about things said over emails and I would feel much more comfortable if we met face to face and I got a better idea of who I'd be working with. Is this unreasonable? Why/Why not?

It's always a good idea, whenever practical.  Models should always be careful who they shoot with and Photographers should always be very careful who they allow on to their set!

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

JAY carreon wrote:

It's always a good idea, whenever practical.  Models should always be careful who they shoot with and Photographers should always be very careful who they allow on to their set!

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

Very well written!

J.K. Perez, Sr. wrote:
Let's backtrack. I made a professional opinion based on what I know as a businessman with combined and proven experience as an amateur, semi-pro and professional shooter, for the military, as a civilian freelancer and as a business owner. You, contradicted my opinion, thus, disqualifying my experience and knowledge  ...and I had great issue with it.

In large part, due to your usage of the word, "Regardless", in your opinion, and in part, from the knowledge that you don't shoot professionally. That you do it for fun. Meaning, a hobby.

To me, the use of the word, "regardless", implies an authoritative and dictatorial position. In other words, attempting to dictate to people, models and photographers, experienced and inexperienced, what they should do before a photo shoot. I would be remiss as a working professional photographer, if I didn't ask you why. And my reasoning and justification for feeling the need to ask you why, included an articulation of a possible interpretation, or reasoning, or hidden meaning behind and for your statement. It's my purpose to determine what the meaning is and by supplying at least one possibility, greatly reduces the number of possibilities, by one, that we can discuss surrounding meetings before shoots. I merely attempted to shave off a second, or two from a discussion that has the potential to expand into several thousand posts.

If you notice, I wrote a little qualifying disclaimer to ensure that I can't be accused of libel, "Of course, I'm not implying you're like that in real life, but the words you wrote up there, certainly gives me that kind of impression." (note: there is no reciprocal disclaimer for your contradiction of my professional opinion)

An impression that I articulated as one, out of many possible impressions derived from an individual interpretation of a reading of a statement and opinion such as the one you made. My follow up emphatically stressed, in more ways than one, that photographers such as myself, should not be viewed and lumped into any potential stereotypes having anything to do with "dating", which many of us know, is often associated with, "awkward encounters". Since this is a public forum, and a highly volatile environment often consisting of fear, insecurities, paranoia and contempt, I felt it was necessary to respond in a manner of a layman's approach.

So, I feel compelled to ask once again, why do you feel that, regardless if it is a TFP shoot or not, why should Models and Photographers consistently arrange a meeting before a shoot? What is the basis for that opinion other than, it does wonders?

Your insight is needed. A list, or breakdown of some sort describing the wonders, would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thank you.

Edited: I seriously want to know what those wonders are, because I may be missing something vital and important to my individual application of photography and meeting models over the Internet. 2006 is my year for self-improvement. Please help.

If I were talking to you, I would've quoted you. How you came to decide that my comment was directed against your "professional" opinion, I have no idea. The perception that I'm undermining your omnipotence is all in your head, so kudos.

That said, you're way off base jumping to where you did. People that mean no harm don't have to make disclaimers. And regardless of whether you're 0% or 10% or 100% chinese, it doesn't entitle you to be offensive.

VirtuaMike wrote:

If I were talking to you, I would've quoted you. How you came to decide that my comment was directed against your "professional" opinion, I have no idea. The perception that I'm undermining your omnipotence is all in your head, so kudos.

That said, you're way off base jumping to where you did. People that mean no harm don't have to make disclaimers. And regardless of whether you're 0% or 10% or 100% chinese, it doesn't entitle you to be offensive.

Thank you Mike, for this wonderful, exemplary and shining example of a professional follow up. Your integrity and accountability should be a standard upon which all men and photographers of this great nation and those willing to risk life and limb to reside here, should aspire to.