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being late....why is it okay?
no question is a dumb one so............ i'll ask the question another way .... why is it an accepted thing that models are late? I personally think it it is disrepectful of everyone's time. It's exspensive if you are renting studio space and paying staff. A late model overlaps into another person's scheduled shooting time. If a model is excessively late or cancels a shoot with me, I don't ask for an explanation ( you asking people to lie to you if you do) or reschedule if its a TFP. I wanted to know what other people's views on being late. ps. i also have learn that race is an issue never to be mention within this forum, so on that note - disregard my previous post. If we can't admit problems and have dialog about them, they will continue to exist. Mar 19 06 01:42 pm Link From the beginning of time to the end of time, humans will be late. Stuff happens. The Great spirit was not pissed at Eve because she took the apple, The Great spirit was pissed because she was late for tee time in the garden. Mar 19 06 01:46 pm Link Tarrice- Unfortunately, I too must agree with your previous post. It has been my experience also. Mar 19 06 01:47 pm Link Its a chick thing... Like I said to your previous post. Just schedule them 30 minutes prior. Mar 19 06 01:50 pm Link Ken Kavanagh wrote: I think the biggest reason a model is late, or early, is lack of respect. White, black, green, or red, if a person does not respect you, they will bend the agreements. Mar 19 06 01:51 pm Link Mike Cummings wrote: That does work. Sad but the truth. Mar 19 06 01:52 pm Link It's all about how you word things. No, you can not discuss race on this site nor any others if you are going to attack that race over your experience with a few. I looked at your site and you only had 2 pictures that were caucasian. Why do you continue to shoot that race if you have problems with all of them? Mar 19 06 01:53 pm Link Marvin Dockery wrote: Sad but this is the truth. Mar 19 06 01:53 pm Link Ken Kavanagh wrote: Yeah? Mar 19 06 01:57 pm Link Not sure if this post is about race or if it's about being late but I will comment on the being late issue. I usually book my shoots 2-4 at a time so if one person is late it throws off my whole day. If I am shooting with a model and he/she is late, it's the last time I book them. Maybe it was a good excuse maybe it was not but there are many people out there who can be on time so I do not allow for 2nd chances. If a model showed up and I was not ready to shoot, I would expect them to not want to work with me again. Mar 19 06 01:58 pm Link Marvin Dockery wrote: Being early is showing a lack of respect? I mean I can understand how being several hours early can make things difficult but I'd always try to get to a shoot a little early just because stuff happens and it's good to have the extra time. Mar 19 06 01:59 pm Link Thomas B wrote: i am totally feeling you on this. Mar 19 06 02:03 pm Link tarrice love wrote: Tarrice, why do you even waste time pondering this? It is not about being late being "an accepted thing." It's NOT acceptable nor professional, but it happens. The answer is simple and logical. We are late because we are human, and we are not perfect. Mar 19 06 02:04 pm Link I tell my models that if they are "right on time" then they are late. To be on time you need to be early. I come from the film industry, where waiting on someone for 30 minutes can cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars, and I just find it totally unacceptable for anyone, talent or crew, to be dragging their feet to the shoot. The cardinal sin is not being late though, the worst offense is being late and not having called ahead to give notice of your delay. If we know how late you're going to be, we can work around your temporary absence. You damned well better be showing up early for the next month to make up for it though. Mar 19 06 02:04 pm Link Mike Cummings wrote: no, sorry, disagree with you 'cuz [ ] only throws everything out of schedule; have to keep some orientation going constant in work ... Mar 19 06 02:07 pm Link Mike Cummings wrote: So not true I am the most punctual person you will ever meet and think that it is very disrespectful to make people wait for you and I do happen to be a chick Mar 19 06 02:07 pm Link I don't think it has anything to do with race but it does have to do with irresponsibility and lack of concern for the other party. To me on time means 15 minutes early and, if I have something to do, I plan ahead and make sure I'm where I'm supposed to be WHEN I'm supposed to be there. In this day and age of cellphones etc... if you know you're going to run late you should call the party that is expecting you and let them know at least 30 minutes in advance of when you were supposed to be there. That's called common courtesy or manners for the uninformed. Mar 19 06 02:07 pm Link I don't belive race has anything to do with a model being late - at least, I've never experienced that. As Mike said, schedule them early and they will either be early, on time, or late. If it's too late, show them the door. Humans learn from other's behaviors - if they get shown the door enough they won't be late, again. If we continue to reinforce bad model behavior, it will continue to be a problem. Cheers, Tim Mar 19 06 02:08 pm Link you just can't make a grand entrance early! Mar 19 06 02:10 pm Link Emmy21 wrote: concur... it's not necessarily a female thing it's a people thing. There is a lot of lack of manners in our society today. Mar 19 06 02:10 pm Link "On time/late" is a matter of cultural perspective... I spent time in the Navajo Nation last summer. Each day, our group was supposed to be setup and ready "in the morning." So shortly after breakfast (8am) we were ready to go but the Navajo people who were supposed to be with us weren't. And when they showed up to find us cross, they never acted as if it was a big deal. So we had a discussion of time because we -Americans- think in terms of specific times. For us, being ready in the morning meant being ready to go right after breakfast. For the Navajo, "in the morning" referred to the time between dawn and noon... My college Spanish professor claimed that her country (Chile) and many other countries of Latin America, if there was a wedding at 4pm between a Latin American and someone from the US, the Latin Americans would receive an invitation that said 3pm and the people from the US would get invitations that said 4pm. Why the difference? Because people from the US are stereotyped as being prompt and the Latin Americans were known to show up late (Keep in mind, this is in their own country, not a US stereotype of someone else)... The relevance to the OP's question? People miss appointed times, all the time!! I was late for a shoot myself just yesterday. It happens. The make-up artist and the model were done with what they needed to do and waited for me to show up. They didn't bitch about it, either (at least, not to my face). And we had an excellent shoot. I've had people show up late and simply view it as part of life. It isn't a problem exclusive to this industry. When I was teaching public school, students were late to class, teachers were late for work, parents were late picking up kids. When I was in management, employees were late for work, clients were late for meetings, etc. It's inevitable. And isn't indicative of any particular profession or race... That's just life. I'd rather it be "Jay Bowman is late!" than "The late Jay Bowman..." :::EDIT::: Now I do believe that you should let people know if you are running behind schedule. Just common courtesy... Mar 19 06 02:12 pm Link Ched wrote: I've been in the film industry too, as an extra. The way I got the jobs? I just happen to be hanging out at the agents office when the jobs come in. They grab whomever is there! Good way to earn towards a SAG card! LOL Mar 19 06 02:12 pm Link well.. in my experience.. very few models have shown up unnacceptably late. I'm a little flexible when models are late because I do schedule them usally a half hour b4 they need to be on set. However... I've had 2 instances where the model was unexcusably(sp?) late. 1st time was a TFP the model was booked to be on set at 11am, it got to be 12:45 b4 the model came in. "traffic was horrible" she said... By this time I had already started shooting with another model whom I had called at 11:30, to cover... so I told the original just to go home. 2nd time: was a paying gig, commercial shoot for a local magazine. Model was 1:45 late to the shoot, and it was during the scouted time to shoot... by then I was packing up, called the client, and rescheduled for the following week. I still got paid, everyone on set got paid, and the client lost money because 1 flaky model couldn't show up on time. needless to say we scheduled a different model the next time. Some models don't realize that if they show up late once.. they are labled as flaky... I know things can happen. traffic, accidents, whatever.... but unless something has come up that absolutely prevents you from being there... you should be on time... leave early as possible. if on a rare occasion you beat the photograher to the set.... then you have a good rep for life. if you know your going to be extremely late... just call and inform the photographer. more than likely if its a paid gig... you'll get sent home... however your integrity could still be intact. Mar 19 06 02:15 pm Link It's funny because I think this late issue is multiplied by 100 with anyone involved in the arts. Since I became a photographer, I would say 50% of the people I have booked shoots with have been late and most of those do not call....they just show up late. I have also played in several bands and I would say about 50% of the band members were late for practice.....again, no call......just showed up late. I took a few classes at a community college.........A business class and a photography class. when the business class started I would say 90% of the class was on time.....when photography class started only about 50% of class was there....and a lot less some of the time. I worked for a furniture store and I would say about 90% or more of the employees were on time every day for that job....and most of the late ones would call and let you know they were going to be late. I know this was a lot of rambling but it almost proves that photography and modeling either attracts flakes or people that just don't care about the business. I would also say the world of internet modeling and photography makes these numbers go up but it's kind of funny that the arts do seem to atract a flaky crowd. Mar 19 06 02:15 pm Link If you have already decided you would not use them again, then why did you even re-post? You can not foresee that they will be late when you book them. It's a learning experience. You just know then that you will never book them, or refer them as well. I have not been late to a shoot either, and ,yes, I am a chick. There is way too much stereo typing going on. I have had a photographer call me an hour before a shoot to give me directions b/c he didn't e-mail them the night before. It's not just models, it's everyone! Mar 19 06 02:15 pm Link Marvin Dockery wrote: Get someone to invest in the event and then they will try harder to be on time. For example; Get a deposit of money that the model gets returned back right after the shoot. Or charge for them to get pictures done. Or pay them! Any way that a model is invested into a shoot will make it more likely to happen. Mar 19 06 02:17 pm Link The modeling industry is different than the music industry I worked in then. Unless you were a known selling commodity if you were late more than a couple of times you could look forward to keeping your job as a waiter at TGI Fridays. Word gets around quick in Nashville. There's just as many flakes in music as there are in modeling I'm sure. So I think if you take your craft seriously and want to be known as a professional you should be on time unless there is a valid reson for not being. Mar 19 06 02:22 pm Link tarrice love wrote: I admire your work record. I could not do it, and I know it. That is why I work for myself. It's not that I'm not a good person or anything like that, I just know myself. Some of us can be on time for years without missing a beat, and some of us can't. Mar 19 06 02:26 pm Link I agree with what Jay Bowman said Also LA seems to be the worst for latecomers (in comparison to the gigs / shoots I've had in Atlanta, Texas, Chicago, etc) it may be the "culture" here but the infrastructure does not help (it's one of the few cities I've lived in without left turn signals, New Jersey makes up for that with their "kettle" turns; and the highway system - wtf?!) http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-shawnleft … tla-news-1 The 30 minute earlier call time isnât a bad idea (I do that with my friends who are habitually late) Time is money: it hurts on the back end as much as up front. I had 2 last week that ran over â somehow 2 hours turned into 7. Iâd rather someone be late 15 minutes than drain 5 hours Mar 19 06 02:28 pm Link on a Tangent.....if someone calls and asks what time you're done, always give them one hour before you really are.... I've had people show up as I was packing away my gear on remote locations and demand that I set back up for them!!! Mar 19 06 02:39 pm Link Sara Green wrote: Would that be L.A.tecomers??? Mar 19 06 02:45 pm Link Scares the shit outa me when a one night stand tells me she's late. Mar 19 06 02:48 pm Link I dunno, but the photographer I'm shooting with today said we'd shoot around noon. It's now 4:00, and he's still not here. Mar 19 06 02:49 pm Link Jay Bowman wrote: Good points Jay! Mar 19 06 02:50 pm Link UdoR wrote: *spits beer out nose Mar 19 06 02:50 pm Link Human nature is what it is. When I shoot the occasional TFP session with a model, 80% of the time they are late. When working with paying clients who have prepaid a non-refundable fee up front, 80% of the time they are on time. People without a vested interest in a project are not as interested in the project as those who have something to loose. Mar 19 06 02:59 pm Link Thomas B wrote: Yea, it's true! I know why the band members are late to practice ... they aren't getting paid. If it's a gig they are late to, then that would be different! I managed a fairly good size band that could cover if a member were late or missing. One time a member was late by longer than a half hour, ... he played rythem guitar and sang back up, so the band was already playing when he arrived. When he rolled his gear up to the stage, I noticed from his breath that he had been drinking and made him sit down until the band had a break. Then we had a quick meeting to decide if he was up to playing. The guys in the band felt he could still play, but we docked his pay in half for that night. Mar 19 06 03:02 pm Link BlackRing37 wrote: Just like with "TFP" shoots, musicians do not always take practice seriously. When it cuts into their income ... that's when you get their attention! Mar 19 06 03:05 pm Link They are all a waste of time... Mar 19 06 03:05 pm Link MarkMarek wrote: Could you define time? Mar 19 06 03:10 pm Link |