Ken Kavanagh wrote:
Tarrice- Unfortunately, I too must agree with your previous post.  It has been my experience also.

I think the biggest reason a model is late, or early, is lack of respect. White, black, green, or red, if a person does not respect you, they will bend the agreements.

Mike Cummings wrote:
Its a chick thing... Like I said to your previous post. Just schedule them 30 minutes prior.

That does work.  Sad but the truth.

Marvin Dockery wrote:

I think the biggest reason a model is late, or early, is lack of respect. White, black, green, or red, if a person does not respect you, they will bend the agreements.

Sad but this is the truth.

Ken Kavanagh wrote:
Tarrice- Unfortunately, I too must agree with your previous post.  It has been my experience also.

Yeah?

I think it has mostly to do with the individual model, how much she is motivated to shoot with the photographer, how professional the model is and how much the model respects other peoples time.

... and... I shoot with A LOT of models, and not all are agency models.

Marvin Dockery wrote:
I think the biggest reason a model is late, or early, is lack of respect. White, black, green, or red, if a person does not respect you, they will bend the agreements.

Being early is showing a lack of respect?  I mean I can understand how being several hours early can make things difficult but I'd always try to get to a shoot a little early just because stuff happens and it's good to have the extra time. 
  And I don't know about other models but I've been late to two shoots and the only reason I was late for the first was because I couldn't find the place (it was in the middle of no where and there were two roads right next to each other with the exact same name so it made for a confusing situation). 
J

Thomas B wrote:
Not sure if this post is about race or if it's about being late but I will comment on the being late issue. I usually book my shoots 2-4 at a time so if one person is late it throws off my whole day. If I am shooting with a model and he/she is late, it's the last time I book them. Maybe it was a good excuse maybe it was not but there are many people out there who can be on time so I do not allow for 2nd chances. If a model showed up and I was not ready to shoot, I would expect them to not want to work with me again.

i am totally feeling you on this.
i think if people stopped turning a blind eye to lateness and dealt with it like you do, it wouldn't happen as much. i have a regular 9 to 5 job and if i'm late twice, i'm suspended and then fired. I have only been late once in 5 years of being employed there.

tarrice love wrote:
no question is a dumb one

so............

i'll ask the question another way ....

why is it an accepted thing that models are late? I personally think it it is disrepectful of everyone's time. It's exspensive if you are renting studio space and paying staff. A late model overlaps into another person's scheduled shooting time. If a model is excessively late or cancels a shoot with me, I don't ask for an explanation ( you asking people to lie to you if you do) or reschedule if its a TFP. I wanted to know what other people's views on being late.

ps. i also have learn that race is an issue never to be mention within this forum, so on that note - disregard my previous post.
If we can't admit problems and have dialog about them, they will continue to exist.

Tarrice, why do you even waste time pondering this?  It is not about being late being "an accepted thing."  It's NOT acceptable nor professional, but it happens.  The answer is simple and logical.  We are late because we are human, and we are not perfect.   

Have you never been late?  Well I have.  It's not a habit, but it happens.  There is nothing you can do to change human nature.  I've been very happy and fortunate that I've not had a "no show" model ... but I've had models call to tell me they were running late.  Sometimes I've called the model to tell her I'm running late.  Traffic, plus many other reasons can cause one to be late when traveling to a location.  This really is a non issue since there is little you can do about it. 

Just plan for alternative options in advance.  Plan ahead as if you expect things to happen ... be ready!  I've always rolled with it!  Make the best of your time when someone is late. That's all.

Mike Cummings wrote:
Its a chick thing... Like I said to your previous post. Just schedule them 30 minutes prior

no, sorry, disagree with you 'cuz [ ] only throws everything out of schedule; have to keep some orientation going constant in work ...

... but, for the note, i've seen the "fashionably late" diva thing amongst models (don't usually get rebooked with me), hair & makeup peeps, and even other photographers.

just business,
fml

Mike Cummings wrote:
Its a chick thing... Like I said to your previous post. Just schedule them 30 minutes prior.

So not true I am the most punctual person you will ever meet and think that it is very disrespectful to make people wait for you and I do happen to be a chick

Emmy21 wrote:

So not true I am the most punctual person you will ever meet and think that it is very disrespectful to make people wait for you and I do happen to be a chick

concur... it's not necessarily a female thing it's a people thing.  There is a lot of lack of manners in our society today. 

By the way I browed your profile and didn't see a feather one.  Either you're a young woman or I paid 3 k for some crappy lasic

Ched wrote:
I tell my models that if they are "right on time" then they are late. To be on time you need to be early.

I come from the film industry, where waiting on someone for 30 minutes can cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars, and I just find it totally unacceptable for anyone, talent or crew, to be dragging their feet to the shoot.

The cardinal sin is not being late though, the worst offense is being late and not having called ahead to give notice of your delay. If we know how late you're going to be, we can work around your temporary absence. You damned well better be showing up early for the next month to make up for it though.

I've been in the film industry too, as an extra.  The way I got the jobs?  I just happen to be hanging out at the agents office when the jobs come in.  They grab whomever is there!  Good way to earn towards a SAG card! LOL

Marvin Dockery wrote:

I think the biggest reason a model is late, or early, is lack of respect. White, black, green, or red, if a person does not respect you, they will bend the agreements.

Get someone to invest in the event and then they will try harder to be on time.  For example; Get a deposit of money that the model gets returned back right after the shoot.  Or charge for them to get pictures done.  Or pay them!  Any way that a model is invested into a shoot will make it more likely to happen.

The scrooge here is "TFP!"  Even though I do TFP's, I know that both the photographer and model need to think of it as investing in themselves ... besides we enjoy this industry, right?  So why are people late?  If they are not putting money into it, or getting moeny out of it, then it doesn't seem so much like a "job!"

tarrice love wrote:

i am totally feeling you on this.
i think if people stopped turning a blind eye to lateness and dealt with it like you do, it wouldn't happen as much. i have a regular 9 to 5 job and if i'm late twice, i'm suspended and then fired. I have only been late once in 5 years of being employed there.

I admire your work record.  I could not do it, and I know it.  That is why I work for myself.  It's not that I'm not a good person or anything like that, I just know myself.  Some of us can be on time for years without missing a beat, and some of us can't. 

I am respectful and considerate to all people and do treat everyone the way I'd like to be treated.  Being late does not always mean a sign of disrespect.

Sara Green wrote:
Also LA seems to be the worst for latecomers

Would that be L.A.tecomers???

Sorry... feeling just too silly today to not to respond...

Jay Bowman wrote:
"On time/late" is a matter of cultural perspective...


I spent time in the Navajo Nation last summer.  Each day, our group was supposed to be setup and ready "in the morning."  So shortly after breakfast (8am) we were ready to go but the Navajo people who were supposed to be with us weren't.  And when they showed up to find us cross, they never acted as if it was a big deal.  So we had a discussion of time because we -Americans- think in terms of specific times.  For us, being ready in the morning meant being ready to go right after breakfast.  For the Navajo, "in the morning" referred to the time between dawn and noon...

My college Spanish professor claimed that her country (Chile) and many other countries of Latin America, if there was a wedding at 4pm between a Latin America and someone from the US, the Latin Americans would receive an invitation that said 3pm and the people from the US would get invitations that said 4pm.  Why the difference?  Because people from the US are stereotyped as being prompt and the Latin Americans were known to show up late (Keep in mind, this is in their own country, not a US stereotype of someone else)...

The relevance to the OP's question?

People miss appointed times, all the time!!  I was late for a shoot myself just yesterday.  It happens.  The make-up artist and the model were done with what they needed to do and waited for me to show up.  They didn't bitch about it, either (at least, not to my face).  And we had an excellent shoot.  I've had people show up late and simply view it as part of life.  It isn't a problem exclusive to this industry.  When I was teaching public school, students were late to class, teachers were late for work, parents were late picking up kids.  When I was in management, employees were late for work, clients were late for meetings, etc.  It's inevitable.  And isn't indicative of any particular profession or race... 

That's just life.  I'd rather it be "Jay Bowman is late!" than "The late Jay Bowman..."


:::EDIT:::

Now I do believe that you should let people know if you are running behind schedule.  Just common courtesy...

Good points Jay! 
There are some cultures with language that has absolutely no words for "time" .. meaning that they don't know how old they are nor  do they celebrate anniversaries.  You get there when you get there.  It's primitive, but they are certainly less stressed.

UdoR wrote:

Would that be L.A.tecomers???

Sorry... feeling just too silly today to not to respond...

*spits beer out nose

LMAO

nice

Thomas B wrote:
It's funny because I think this late issue is multiplied by 100 with anyone involved in the arts. Since I became a photographer, I would say 50% of the people I have booked shoots with have been late and most of those do not call....they just show up late. I have also played in several bands and I would say about 50% of the band members were late for practice.....again, no call......just showed up late. I took a few classes at a community college.........A business class and a photography class. when the business class started I would say 90% of the class was on time.....when photography class started only about 50% of class was there....and a lot less some of the time. I worked for a furniture store and I would say about 90% or more of the employees were on time every day for that job....and most of the late ones would call and let you know they were going to be late.
I know this was a lot of rambling but it almost proves that photography and modeling either attracts flakes or people that just don't care about the business. I would also say the world of internet modeling and photography makes these numbers go up but it's kind of funny that the arts do seem to atract a flaky crowd.

Yea, it's true!  I know why the band members are late to practice ... they aren't getting paid.  If it's a gig they are late to, then that would be different!  I managed a fairly good size band that could cover if a member were late or missing.  One time a member was late by longer than a half hour, ... he played rythem guitar and sang back up, so the band was already playing when he arrived.  When he rolled his gear up to the stage, I noticed from his breath that he had been drinking and made him sit down until the band had a break. Then we had a quick meeting to decide if he was up to playing.  The guys in the band felt he could still play, but we docked his pay in half for that night. 

One thing that is stupid to be late too is traffic school.  If you have ever been to one of those classes, then you should know that they close and lock the door at exactly the time scheduled.  No exceptions!  If you are late to traffic school in California, you forefit the money you paid and have to pay for and schedule a new class all over again!  Being able to drive can cost hundreds of dollars, if not thousands in California!  But don't be late for the Department of Motor Vehicles OR Court!

BlackRing37 wrote:
The modeling industry is different than the music industry I worked in then.  Unless you were a known selling commodity if you were late more than a couple of times you could look forward to keeping your job as a waiter at TGI Fridays.  Word gets around quick in Nashville.  There's just as many flakes in music as there are in modeling I'm sure.  So I think if you take your craft seriously and want to be known as a professional you should be on time unless there is a valid reson for not being.

Just like with "TFP" shoots, musicians do not always take practice seriously.  When it cuts into their income ... that's when you get their attention!

MarkMarek wrote:
They are all a waste of time...

Could you define time? 

Nothing is wasted if you don't spend it waiting ... do something else with that time.