Photographer
bubbaclicks
Posts: 2271
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
bob cooley wrote:
Great Reply Moraxian.
It should also be added that since you are shooting on private property, without a release, you open yourself up to legal liability if you attempt to sell the images commerically (and if you present them to for sale or as part of an assignment to an art-director who knows his business, he will refuse them without a property release).
Do you honestly think that someone on the board of directors at the RR companies said "let's just make life inconvenient for photographers and not let them shoot on our tracks without permission"? No. It's because railroad tracks are dangerous places (and not just when there is a train there).
High Heels, Metal rails, lots of little rocks, bits of glass and pools of grease aren't the smartest combination. It creates a HUGE legal liabilty for the RR when people wonder on the tracks.
And if there are recognizable landmarks in the images, and you have shot them on private property, you risk getting sued/charged by the owner of the land (in this case the RR).
While this is unlikely, it doesn't make it right, Just like if someone downloaded all of your images, posted them elsewhere claiming they shot them. It is easy to do, but that doesn't stop it from being theft.
When you shoot "Guerilla", and don't respect the ownership rights of others, you are continuing the trend that fosters the concept of not respecting others properties or rights in general.
Would you call yourself so arrogant as to be above other people ownership rights? I hope not.
Okay, my last point on this:
How many times have we seen shots done on railroad tracks? BORING! There are SO many places to shoot. Hasn't this horse been beaten to death already?
cheers!
/b wow bob, my thread that started out as a warning to others who did not know or understand the implications of where they shoot, but has been turned into some really nice verbal bantering. As you yourself say in your last sentence "how many times have we all seen pics on train tracks... I guess like many others i just considerd it ok, since i have seen it so many times... I hope others don't make tha same mistake
on the "boring" aspect, you don't know my client, you don't know the project/concept and you haven't seen the final pics... judge not.....couldn't the same be said about a picture in a bar?
i would love to try and get this thread back to reason it was intended, which is providing information that may not be known to all thanks to everyone for keeping it in a positive light
Photographer
bubbaclicks
Posts: 2271
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
DJTalStudios wrote:
Obviously shoting on train tracks is dangerous etc etc etc... however regardless of that the gaurd was unproffesional. Going into Drill Srgt dress down mode was possibly uncalled for.
I've shot at numerous train yards, actualy well known for it in certain circles. Especially when you have nude models driving the trains themselves. I have the vidoe around here somewhere.
But I do hope you got your cover. Like you, all i think was necessary was for the guy to say get off the tracks, we were more than happy to comply
... but i was very polite back and yeah i got the shot.... but at an expense none of us was expecting
Photographer
Moraxian
Posts: 2607
Germantown, Maryland, US
Thanks Bob for the kind words.
I've done RR track shoots, but only on "private" tracks that are unused during the weekend (ie. in an industrial park area). These tracks are used to get cargo in/out of the park.
Of course, I'm doing the track shots for my "damsel-in-distress" websites, so I need to be extra careful, since the lady on the tracks is tied up (not tied to the tracks, of course!)
Photographer
Tony Papale
Posts: 47
Massapequa Park, New York, US
Photographer
William Coleman
Posts: 2371
New York, New York, US
Tony Papale wrote:
Here's a link of an article from 2002 (if you wanna read it), but still applies....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy … -2002Nov14
Good luck and be safe out there all!
Tony Interesting article, Tony, thanks. Here in NYC, there was a proposal to prohibit taking pictures on the subway. But New Yorkers - being New Yorkers - howled about it, and it hasn't gone into effect...yet.
Photographer
bubbaclicks
Posts: 2271
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
Tony Papale wrote:
Here's a link of an article from 2002 (if you wanna read it), but still applies....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy … -2002Nov14
Good luck and be safe out there all!
Tony Wow, another reason to stay away form the tracks, thanks tony for bringing this to light
Photographer
Marvin Dockery
Posts: 2243
Alcoa, Tennessee, US
Elite Imaging wrote:
If you were near the tracks and not in a rail yard you should have told him to piss up a rope.
Unless he is law enforcement within the municipality he has no more power that one of those old farts at WalMart that drive around in thier 2 cylinder car with the big bad yellow light.
If they are in a security guard capacity they don't even have the power to hold you.
If what that asshole said is true then we tresspass everytime we go across a RR crossing.
RR right of way only consist of the easment on either side of the track and is only for the placement of thier track.
Now if you are screwing around with the switchgear or a crossing box then you can be jailed, but not by Box Car Willie.
If you are in the yard(which is clearly posted No Tresspassing) then you are gambling with your freedom.
Airports are different, they have police that ARE a division of the municipal Police Department. The railroad police have lots of power. The fine is around $300.00 for both the photographer and model. (Each) They can collect, and here in Tennessee often write tickets. I am not sure if their power comes from state, or federal laws. There are stories of the railroad cops going back for over a hundred years, but back then it was to keep the hobos out of the cars.
This ticket writing also happens in National parks. Most national parks are charging for photography permits, where a model is involved. I know, because I had to pay $280.00 for not having the permit. I might have beat the ticket, but an attorney would have cost me much more.
Its a shame.
Photographer
DJTalStudios
Posts: 602
Seattle, Washington, US
bubbaclicks wrote:
Wow, another reason to stay away form the tracks, thanks tony for bringing this to light This is fucking ridiculous. FUCK them and their terrorist bullshit. And FUCK the stupid ass people who buy into this governments fear.
Photographer
legworkPhotography
Posts: 121
Detroit, Alabama, US
I've been stopped twice in one week, lol I was doing a motel shoot the police where called at 3am sayinglights where going off like poltergiest. (See port model in Orange) The second occasion was at an abandon gas stations, the police here saw the models smile & politely left.
Photographer
SoloPoint
Posts: 65
Parkland, Washington, US
bubbaclicks wrote:
wanted to pass along some information on something that happened to me this past weekend, it may save you some drama and embarrasment, maybe even some legal fees.
I'm a photographer, and i was shooting a CD cover for a woman here in Florida this past weekend. We were shooting near a railroad track, trying to get some of the industrial buildings in the background. I like late day sun, and as the sun was going lower, we moved onto the tracks to get more light. Out of no-where a cop from the railraod came out and read us the riot act...screaming and calling us stupid for being on the tracks. Now granted i had 5 people on the shoot and we were shooting right near a crossing,So we had lookouts for both directions and where we were, the trains are required to slow down. He very strictly(think: Drill sargeant) reminded everyone on the shoot that we were tresppasing on private property anf then gave us all warnings after ID'ing us and berating us. So...what have i learned form this experience?? First, that there are railroad police...Who Knew???, that you can get arrested for just doing a job.... and keep off the tracks, I posted this in general mayhem because the model, MUA and stylist were given warnings too. I see alot of people who's pics are taken on train tracks in here, just wanted to share the love and experience.
Photographer
J Merrill Images
Posts: 1412
Harvey, Illinois, US
Yes, there are railroad cops. I don't know much about their police powers but I used to talk to one quite a bit in a local diner. Every time I ever saw him, he was carrying a sidearm and hancuffs so I gotta believe he had the ability to arrest people. One bit of advice that I learned from knowing this guy - they take trespass very seriously, especially in the switching/loading yards. Apparently large scale theft from the box cars is a frequent problem.
Photographer
KoolGirlieStuff
Posts: 3560
Gainesville, Florida, US
Shooting on RR tracks is so cliche and so "out" ..........RR police that`s funny (I`m sorry) .........would have been a good one if the model was tied to the tracks that would have been a riot for them wouldn`t it? (I`m just kidding, I know it must have sucked)
My advice it`s BEST to use an abandoned section of tracks if you have too......there`s hundred`s of miles of that here in America while many of the RR companies are bankrupt and gone anyways.....
Photographer
SoloPoint
Posts: 65
Parkland, Washington, US
All slams against the rent-a-cop aside, my favorite site to shoot has a cross where some guy was walking down the tracks with his 3 yr old son on his shoulders. Somehow a train snuck up on them and they were both killed. Amazing as it may seem, a train can come up behind you without you knowing. They seem loud, but from the back, you do not hear them. Now the trains blast their horns like there is no tomorrow. Granted you had spotters, but they feel responsible if they run over you, not to mention the guilt the engineer has to live with the rest of his life. I play on the tracks too, but understand the reasoning if I get jumped for doing it.
Photographer
Genell Canty
Posts: 159
Baltimore, Maryland, US
Oh yeah...I was doing a shoot at a private airport...about a year after 9/11 and the cops came and tried to confiscate the film...I got out of it though =~]
Photographer
Elite Imaging
Posts: 347
Oak Ridge, Florida, US
studio L wrote:
yo...ever hear of a citizen's arrest?
anyone can arrest anyone....you don't have to be deputy dog.
and security guards absolutely can hold you! Yo...ever see it done? Citizen arreast is about as Deouty Dog as it gets.
I'd like to see the grill on the guy that tried to pull that idocity on me.
Same with a rent a cop.
That citzens arrest is not wjat you think it is, and security guards open themselves up to a host of law suits exercising that MO.
I have seen a security guard get arrested for unlawful detainer and holding a citizen against thier will.
So there 
Model
Casanova
Posts: 16
THIS WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED IF YOU WERE SHOOTING I, NINJA KITTY!!! I WOULD HAVE DAZZLED HIM WITH THE KAT MAN DO EYE AND THEN SHREDDED HIM WITH THE KITTY CLAW OF FURNITURE SHREDDING TECHNIQUE!!! I AM NINJA KITTY, HEAR MY HISS AND CRINGE!!!!
Photographer
Prose Photography
Posts: 1419
Glendale, Arizona, US
I feel your pain. Similar experience one month ago. The railroad guy was a prick but the local cop he called just kind a blew it off cosidering you could see a train coming for over half a mile.
Model
Tyri D
Posts: 39
Kenosha, Wisconsin, US
While I acknowledge the seriousness of the main topics of this thread, I had to comment on the following...When I was reading through this thread...I noticed a comment about the "Walmart Security Guards driving in their 2 cylinder car with the big bad yellow light" and started laughing my butt off. One of my friends drives one of those.....
Photographer
photosbydmp
Posts: 3808
Shepparton-Mooroopna, Victoria, Australia
Touscany Photography wrote:
Guerilla Photography: Get in, shoot and get out before any authorities know that you've been there shooting on private property.
It's either that, or you follow the protocal of scouting for a location and securing permission to shoot on the property. More often than not, the property owner is flattered being asked and if you are nice and communicative, permission is usually secured without cost. You have to be a 'people person' to do this. guerilla photography, cool term, but it sure suits photo work after 911, that turbaned s--tb-g has a lot to answer for.
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