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How much should i charge per hour?! Help me!
Ok, I am fairly new to modeling. I have only done a couple shoots, which have been TFP. One photographer is offering to pay me hourly... He is asking me what I charge per hour. Help! I have never gotten paid before! ha. I dont know what to charge him! THanks. Mar 09 06 07:51 am Link I am actually in the same boat you are in... I have done quite a few photo shoots, which were more for experience. I am now at the point where I feel I should be getting paid, but not sure how much. I need help too. LOL... anybody with feedback would surely be grateful. Mar 09 06 07:56 am Link It really depends on the nature of the shoot. If you're doing glamour/nudity the pay should be more than fashion/casual. I've gotten offers for casual/fashion around $75-150/hr. And while I don't do glamour/nudity, I've gotten offers to do so that range from $100-200/hr. I am rather new to the business also, so that could have a lot to do with it. Once again though, it really depends on the nature of the shoot, whether or not MUA/hair stylist is going to be provided, any travelling expenses, etc. Mar 09 06 08:07 am Link a none pro model, $10 hr.posing for a photographer with no assignment If hes making money on your photo , discuse rates Mar 09 06 08:08 am Link My rates vary upon what is being shot... $50 an hr/min 2 hrs for casual/fashion $75 an hr/min 2 hrs for lingerie $100 an hr/min 2 hrs for implied nudes/glamour $125 an hr/2 hrs for nudes/glamour nudes Mar 09 06 08:11 am Link but seriously it depends  Mar 09 06 08:12 am Link And once again, the $75 to $200 an hour thing comes up. It's great if you can get it but the simple fact of that matter is that, as a new model with essentially no book, and no real commercial demand, you won't. That is not to say that you won't stumble across a photog on ocassion with more money than sense but, by asking such rates at this stage of your modeling efforts, you will mostly sit at home. Go do some more TFP/CDs and maybe some paying gigs at about $25 - $50 an hour. That is more money than you are likely to make doing most things and it is entirely fair. When you truly have demand that makes pushing those rates higher possible, go for it. Don't become one of the thousands of models on MM, OMP, etc. who throws up a bunch of expectations on her profile just because she sees other girls do it, only to become one more of the ones who never get gigs. Mar 09 06 08:24 am Link Thanks everyone for all your help!  Mar 09 06 08:30 am Link The OP has some red-eye and other amateur photos in her Model Mayhem portfolio, so she's still a beginner. I feel that beginning models should get $10 per hour, plus pictures, for clothed poses. Rates go up with experience and as clothing comes off, but remember that experienced models are worth more money because they can pose quickly in a variety of looks and with minimum direction. Acting skills are what make an experienced model worth money. If you can't cry on cue and laugh the next minute, seduce with a raised eyebrow and then show convincing motherly concern, you're not worth commercial pay no matter how pretty everyone says you are. Another sort-of rule of thumb is that when models post "$125 per hour," that's for commercial shoots, where somebody other than the photographer is paying. For a non-commercial shoot paid out of the photographer's pocket, models can at best hope for half of their commercial rate. Mar 09 06 08:36 am Link Unless the responders are in your local area, I'd advise you to take their suggestions with a grain of salt. It is my experience that modeling fees vary greatly by location -- what a model gets in L.A. or S.F. is probably not the same rate as a model in Fresno. I am a big, big advocate of building a local photographic arts community, and one of the things the local community can discuss is modeling rates. Don't ask strangers here on MM (from all over the world) -- ask your local models & photographers. Also, only you can decide how much compensation is appropriate for the effort you need to put into a project. You need to figure that out yourself. Remember that the photographer will pay you for the time in front of the camera, and not the time you spend commuting, shaving-plucking-waxing-tanning, etc. A negotiating tip -- the side that first quotes a figure is at a disadvantage. Ask the photographer what he'd suggest as a modeling fee. Then, you can decide to accept, make a counter offer, or walk away. Finally, many (most?) photographers are cheapskates and will try to lowball you, pointing out that you are still a beginner and that the images in your profile are not high quality. Such arguments are of little value -- what is your time worth to you & what are you willing to accept are more important. I haven't looked at your profile, but so what if you have only modest quality images there -- the photographer is hiring the model, not the photographers in your portfolio. Mar 09 06 09:37 am Link I think Looknsee pretty much nailed it. On a side note, I find the pay list that some girls use to be somewhat disturbing. While I absolutely understand that doing a casual commercial style shoot is different than doing erotic nude work, and it is appropriate that compensation should vary accordingly, I think I'd rather just tell you what I'm interested in, and get a ballpark figure from you for that concept. The rate sheet sometimes makes me feel like I'm cruising the red light district, checking out the menus. Eep. Plus, with the possible exception of Angelina Jolie, I can't think of anyone I think it's worth paying $250/hr (often with a two or three hour minimum!!!) to see nude. /tangent Mar 09 06 09:55 am Link phcorcoran wrote: Hmmmm, doesn't that mean the photographer was a beginner? I never heard of a model being called bad because the photographer didn't know how to take a picture. Mar 09 06 10:36 am Link I think you should charge $1,000/hr and only have to work a half day per month. Of course, you should shoot with me for $10/hr - and I'll even throw in lunch... ;-) Seriously, "standard rates" are (IMHO) a joke. EVERY shoot is different, and you need to consider WHO is paying (a company with a 5-6 figure bank acct or a photographer with a 2-3 figure bank acct) and where the images will be used. Find out the budget, then decide if it's worth it to you for that particular shoot. Two trains of thought: 1. Erotic nudes may not worth it for $10/hr, but may be worth considering for $1000+. (unless D. Brian is shooting it, then it's worth it for free!) 2. Editorial/lifestyle shoot for a local magazine worth it for $40/hr, but if it's an AT&T ad that will go nationwide, a similar shoot should be worth $thousands. One thought process is content-based, one is value/usage-based. Only YOU can decide the balance between them. Wm Mar 09 06 10:50 am Link I'm also fairly new and have done extensive TFP to build my book. You have a really good look, but need more camera time. The first thing you need to determine is what the photographer is trying to accomplish. Ask questions. If they are just trying to expand their portfolio, I usually won't charge but ask them to pay for a make up artist. I do really good make-up, but am still learning what looks good to the camera, so a great investment on both parts for wonderful shots. I also ask up front for gas or train/taxi money and food to keep the energy levels up. It's a negotiable point. Additionally a CD of all shots with 3-5 high quality of our agreed upon shots edited and scaled for both a 9x12 print and for web use. If the shoot is part of a project with a payout to the photographer in the end, then I will ask for $20-$75/hour depending on the type of shoot (editorial, commercial etc.) and estimated time involved, and an MUA. In one case I received $50/hour and a percentage of the sold shot for a regional ad. It sold but didn't publish... I also ask for them to work with me to choose 1-2 great shots and to give them to me in high quality CD so I can get a 9x12 made for my book and web site (note - not all the shots, just 1-2 great ones). Usually if you are being paid, you don't get any CD or prints, but I've found most photographers to be very understanding and willing to help me as well. Finally, if a photographer approaches me (paid or unpaid), I am working for the photographer. It's his/her shoot and concept. Sometimes this is very collaberative, but usually the photographer has something specific in mind which is why they approached me for my look. I speak with them at least twice before the shoot to make sure that the outfits I am bringing match what their concept is. I've even gone as far as taking digital snapshots and emailed them to make sure we are on the same page. It's my job to make sure they get what they are looking for. And Lastly, I make sure I am never late and never cancel. Besides being very unprofessional, Studio time is expensive and reputations are priceless. Mar 09 06 11:13 am Link https://www.modelmayhem.com/search.php? … mit=Search Models, like hotels, are cheaper by the hour but that usually also means they're dirty. Real models have day rates, unless they're doing nudity or lingerie... If doing nudity or lingerie it is a day rate plus EXACT time on set at an additional charge. These are "industry" standards, so your experience and advice may vary. Advice given with no warranty express or implied. four to six weeks for delivery starting at $1200 with options as shown...must take delivery from dealer stock...cash back goes to the dealer. Mar 09 06 11:23 am Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: Alan, I was wondering if you could elaborate on this point for me a little bit. Most of the professional and experienced shooters I know say the same thing, so I'm inclined to believe it, but I don't really understand it, either. Mar 09 06 11:25 am Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: You must have misread the OP's post. She was asking how much she should be paid for a shoot, not how much her photographer should be paid. Surely you know that an experienced model wouldn't post red-eye photos. Mar 09 06 11:25 am Link Sita Mae Edwards wrote: Haven't you ever worked with someone who was camera shy, some who simply can't accept being photographed? I've photographed thousands of people, non-models, and there are some people, a small percentage, who simply can't be made at ease. Candid photography is all that works with them. Mar 09 06 11:29 am Link James Jackson wrote: We must be from very different planets. Mar 09 06 11:30 am Link photographybyfrank wrote: (shakes head) sorry, but no, no, and no ... Mar 09 06 11:33 am Link phcorcoran wrote: I'm sure...but that's fine...that's why the disclaimer. Mar 09 06 11:35 am Link Once again, I will post this article. The internet is full of photographers that will pay large amounts of money for a new model and make them feel like they are a star, but the fact is, without lots of experience, you are only going to attract those few photographers. MAGICAL ADVICE - Text by John Lucassian (OMP #38818) Getting paid - Compensation for Your Work Your jobs as a model are like any other business arrangement; both sides get something. When you consider jobs, you need to realize that you're only worth what your client is willing to pay. If you are a beginner with little (or no) experience, your time and talent is not worth much more than minimum wage. As in any profession, what will make you valuable are your experience, skills, and attitude. You need to balance your skills and experience with those working with you. If you think that a newcomer's time is worth as much as seasoned pro, you're kidding yourself. Clients will go with the model that has a portfolio and at least some experience. For this reason, a new model should take jobs that will increase his or her experience level, provide better portfolio photos, a photographer to add to a resume, great looking tear-sheets, or photos that will generate some level of exposure, even if it doesn't pay well (or at all). The greater experience and the better the recognition, the more jobs a model will receive. Photographers can be a model's best allies in finding jobs. A good strategy is approaching photographers who have quality work, apply for any test shoots, TFP jobs, and volunteer for their pet projects whenever possible to get more experience, better portfolio photos, and better working relationships. Bring a positive, can-do attitude to every shoot, become every photographer's favorite model. Many times photographers will be in-charge of hiring models for commercial clients. Guess who will get called first? It's a good idea to set a rate schedule for your OWN use, but be reasonable and flexible, and do not publish it. You want to be able to negotiate rates and bid for jobs. If you can, find out what your client is willing to pay. Your clients have budgets and can always find someone else cheaper. If asked to provide a rate schedule, your rates should be competitive. There are literally millions of people who want to be models, but most will never be successful. It's very easy to lose a job and many subsequent ones to someone else. There is an old adage: Would you rather get 1 job at $100 or 2 at $75? Don't make the mistake of thinking after a few paying jobs that you should be paid excessively or all the time. Like any other business, you will need to spend time and money on advertising. When doing any shoot with a photographer, you are promoting and marketing yourself in front the photographer and all the clients of the photographer who might see your image. Many times the client will inquire about a model from the photographer's portfolio. If they like your look you won't even have to interview for the job. In the same way, you should bring creative ideas to photographers for projects that you are interested in doing for yourself. Many photographers look for new projects and love to do wild and new projects. Collaboration can result in a piece to be published to promote both your skills, like postcards, posters or calendars, which both of you can use. Often you'll both have to invest some money in advertising, but, if the image is good enough, it might even sell to a publisher, netting the both of you a small sum and great publicity for your efforts. When setting your personnel rate schedule, be realistic. Many photographers are willing to pay a model for a portfolio shoot that involves swimsuits, lingerie, or nudes. Very few will pay for fashion or casual shots, in fact most will charge the model. Also, be realistic about your location. Regular and steady modeling work can usually only be found in large metropolitan areas. Don't expect to get big bucks modeling in a rural area. You should also realize that clients strongly prefer LOCAL models. They are just more reliable and don't add "travel" expenses to the budget. Very few clients will pay for travel; they will simply hire a local model. After all, there are pretty faces everywhere. Mar 09 06 11:54 am Link And Brotha Harvey has passed on the words of wisdom again!! Mar 09 06 11:58 am Link Sita Mae Edwards wrote: I am off to an all day shoot but I will elaborate when I get home. Mar 09 06 11:58 am Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: phcorcoran wrote: I have seen plenty of experienced models post a picture that I don't think is great. When you see a bad photo, all you know for sure is the photographer is bad. Perhaps the photograher was her cousin so she posted a photo as a favor to him. Mar 09 06 12:02 pm Link take no less than 100/hr. or go to an agency if you want to do fashion. they'll get you 250/hr. and the 250 is to keep your clothes on. i dont trust anyone who will only pay me 10/hr for anything. if they want to do tfcd, that's great, i'll do it, but dont try to pretend you're going to pay me at a total of $30 for a shoot. that's just insulting. Photographers, be honest with these new girls. dont take advantage of them. if you dont want to pay them, make a tfcd deal, even beginning girls make 100/hr. especially the girl that posted this. she might be new, but she has a great look. ~Satine Mar 09 06 12:05 pm Link Satine Phoenix wrote: You want us to be honest? At 5'5" she can't do editorial, fashion, commercial, or any other type of modeling on a professional level. The only things she could do professionally are glamour, nude figure, and promotional modeling. For glamour and nude figure modeling she *might* get $100/hour as a new girl in the industry plus a day rate of about $500. For promotional modeling she'd be lucky to get $100/day. Mar 09 06 12:15 pm Link maybe in pennsylvania but i have girlfriends of all sizes here in san francisco that are modeling full time the shortest is 5'3". if a girl is proportioned it doesnt matter. she cant do runway. big whoop. Mar 09 06 12:19 pm Link Satine Phoenix wrote: Ha Mar 09 06 12:21 pm Link I have 2 years experience - which isn't too much... I usually charge... 40-75$/hr - clothed/fashion/lingerie 75-150/hr - nudes-artistic-glamour Day Rate 4-6/hr - Non-Nude - 250-350 Day Rate 4-6/hr - Nudes - 500 Or a Mix - Some of everything - No exact rate! I also make all my rates negotiable - depending on if there is an MUA, Stylist, Travel... I take in all expenses for the shoot - and adjust things accordingly.. Or more so - I'll accept offers... Sometimes - I'll even - give a min amount - like least i'll take $100, Most $300, pay me according to how I did my job. Mar 09 06 12:22 pm Link The School Fashion Institute pays 17 per hour for fashion and 15 per hour for nudes. Mar 09 06 12:29 pm Link Sita Mae Edwards wrote: I agree with Alan, so while we await his response, I thought I'd offer my $0.02. Mar 09 06 12:52 pm Link On model prep time for a shoot .... young women spend a great deal of time looking nice for all kinds of jobs and most of them will never see $25 - $50 an hour for such work. Many of these women also do this for part time jobs. This argument has been manufactured to make a case. I believe that the OP should listen to people from all over because truth is universal. In the end, however, it doesn't matter because the simple fact of the matter is that, when viewed in regard to the total number of models on internet modeling sites, very few will ever see $100 - $200 an hour for anything. That is why these sites are littered with profiles that have not been updated in months to years. Simply put, the models never got anywhere, got bored and left. Demand is the only thing that matters. If you have it, you can charge a good bit of money (and just what amount constitutes "a good bit" will depend upon alot of things), if you don't, stop listening to those that would tell you to charge exhorbitant rates - they are not helping you. Mar 09 06 10:21 pm Link My apologies for taking so long to follow up. I drove 250 miles today, shot 1000 images of a model and 1.3 hours of video in five locations ranging from the mountains to the dessert. I am a little bit tired so if this is not as complete as usual, please accept my apologies. Experience, in the mainstream is the anti-thesis of how it is viewed on the net. Models get signed with agencies because they fit within the box. Typically, agencies look for models 5'9" or taller and 22 and younger. They like them better at 16. The height drops a bit and there is a little more flexibility on age when we talk about commercial models, but there is a set of parameters they prefer. There are always exceptions, so occassionally a model 5'2" will get signed as will one who is twnety-seven. Likewise, if a model is already working consistently, the box means nothing. The criteria are mostly for new models as a measure of the greatest liklihood of success. Within the box, they want the "look" that fits the agencies needs. Next to look, they want the personality. Personality is important because models have to audition. If a model is a prima dona, no matter what her look, she probably won't get booked consistently. Experience, however, is not something they look for. The biggest benefit to experience is not posing, but learning how to audition. It takes a skill to get booked. The more auditions you go on the better you understand how to talk the talk, schmooze and get the bookings. I have known models with no experience walk into Ford with nothing more than a Polaroid, get signed and then get booked for a $30,000 national ad without ever having been in front of the camera. Sometimes a casting director wants a new, fresh look. Other times they book the workhorses or the super-model. Photographers emphasize how important a good portfolio is. In many cases, that will be of the least concern to an agent. The reason is that a bad portfolio is something they can fix. If a model doesn't have the look, it won't matter how many pictures they have, they won't get work. If a model has the look, they will want to snatch her up before their competitor does. The look is the one thing that is irreplaceable. All of that having been said, that is really why photographers, in my view, are doing themselves a disservice by trying to pay models based on experience. How many times have I heard it repeated that clients pay models, not photographers. It is chanted as a mantra that if the photographer isn't being paid, he will have nothing for the model. So photographers try to get the new models to work for less so they can have models to shoot for little or nothing. When it comes to TFP, either a photographer is good or he isn't. If he isn't good, it doesn't matter how many pictures he takes of a model, it won't help her at all. Albiet, the OP's picture she posted with red eye. That is an example of an inexperienced photographer. It did her little good to shoot with a guy who was unqualified. Photographers need to bring something to the table if they want a model to work for free. Either that has to be great photos. Alternatively, if the photographer is new and wants to work with new models, it is the opportunity to work and learn from each other. While experience will make little difference to an agency, it does help a model build confidence in front of the camera. Most of the models on the forums will never get signed with decent agencies. Some will. For those that make their living on the net, photographers need to re-think their payment structure. Rather than use the paridgam that models get paid by experience, models should get paid by the use of the photos. That is how the mainstream works. If a photo is going to be seen by millions, the model will be paid more than the shoot for the local paper. Photographers need to offer payment that is commensurate with the budget for the project. That can range from TFP to the typical hundreds an hour, with everything in between. Yes, that includes the $20hr which many photographers want to pay. Indeed, $20hr may be very reasonable, considering that the photos aren't being sold. In turn, models will simply decide, they will accept or reject what is being offered. That is how it is done in the mainstream. Except for super-models, the booking is typically offered for a price and the model accepts or rejects. Photographers should make these offers irrespective of experience. There will be times where a photographer might be surprised because a well known, experienced model may accept their offer. Sometimes making $20-$50hr is better than making nothing at all. If a model hasn't been signed by an agency, the most important thing is to get paid bookings. Models may propose fees, but everything is negotiable. The trick is to accept rejection gracefully and move onto offer another model. Doing this will move the net closer to the way the mainstream works and will make the whole process more businesslike. LIkewise, it eliminates the need for photographers to bash models because they ask for more than is being offered. The photographer sets the rate, the model accepts or declines. Anyhow, I need to sleep. I hope that clarifies what I am trying to say. Mar 09 06 11:53 pm Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: Why the rant? The OP herself wrote: I am fairly new to modeling. Yet you seem to be arguing that she is not inexperienced? Mar 10 06 12:52 am Link Keni wrote: Keni..I find it curious that you want to dictate what images the photographer releases. The quality of a photographer's work that is released to the public is controlled by the photographer himself. It is his reputation on the line and he has that right. But of course if you would like to pay for full copyrights on every image from the shoot...there might be some room to work with that... Mar 10 06 01:17 am Link phcorcoran wrote: Sorry, not a rant at all. I was asked by two other posters to explain my reasons why I think that photographers should move away from experienced base fees to use based fees. I personally don't believe that experience has anything to do with how much a model should be paid. I pay the exact same thing whether I am the first person to shoot a model or the 100th. Mar 10 06 07:05 am Link Alan from Aavian Prod wrote: Well I don't think you really know what a commercial gig is worth, but a loose rule of thumb in the commercial world is that models are paid half of what photographers are paid, and in the commercial world photographers are indeed paid based upon usage (plus labor, plus expenses). Mar 10 06 05:00 pm Link Ok now remember pro photographers should not pay for models but for the people that do fasion/casual get's the most pay not nudity/glamour gee wiz do home work befor saying things. A company pays a girl for her work however if a person is offering to pay then 100 to 150 is a good start but remember you are giving up allot on the rights for the images when you get paid. So please take this into account. The more you are willing to do ( be all arround ) the more you will get work, To say i will not do this or that will hurt you in the long run and will get you nowhere in the business just go by what others charge and you will be fine, Well take care and good luck. Mar 10 06 05:10 pm Link phcorcoran wrote: That's kind of a silly comment. New models get bookef for big jobs through agencies all the time. Agents don't send resume's out for models when they submit. They send comp cards. phcorcoran wrote: Actually, my original reply was prompted by the comment by another poster who said that she had to be a new model because there was red eye in one of her photos. That, in and of itself simply means that the photographer wasn't very good. Mar 10 06 06:14 pm Link |
