Virtue Photography wrote:
... it would make more sense to take a photographer with you on a date than to take a boyfriend with you on a photoshoot.

hehehe... what if the model is dating her photographer?  Stastically speaking of course.  :-)

Virtue Photography wrote:
With these numbers in mind, it would make more sense to take a photographer with you on a date than to take a boyfriend with you on a photoshoot.

I was going to post this thought in the other escort thread... LOL

Virtue Photography wrote:
it would make more sense to take a photographer with you on a date than to take a boyfriend with you on a photoshoot.

Modeling is still safer than flying the safest form of transportation...

Mention that you have a 2 seater plane for the shoot..

Then watch her smile as she waves by to her boyfrind from the runway....

(:-------

Hj

Virtue Photography wrote:
With these numbers in mind, it would make more sense to take a photographer with you on a date than to take a boyfriend with you on a photoshoot.

Funny how this part of the whole post is the part that sticks out.

Virtue Photography wrote:
Many female models will bring a friend or boyfriend to a photoshoot for safety reasons.  However, this is a misplaced belief in safety.  Are photographers killing or raping models ?  If you watch the news you think its happening everyday.  Its not.  I have researched this as much as I can and I can come up with about 5 cases a year of photographers killing a model they were working with.  Sound like a lot ?  Consider this.....over 6,000 females are murdered every year in America.  75% of them are killed by a boyfriend, husband or close aquitance.   There are approx 95,000 sexual assualts against females every year in America.   70% of them will be committed by a family member, close aquitance or boyfriend.  With these numbers in mind, it would make more sense to take a photographer with you on a date than to take a boyfriend with you on a photoshoot.

LOL, and I did LOL!

Phoenix E wrote:
the same rules apply to every social interaction in life....whether with a photographer or not.....
i would NEVER go to a strangers house by myself....i always hang out with people in a public/social setting multiple times before being alone with them in an isolated place. it's just basic safety.
if you know the photographer--well, yes, then there is no reason to bring an escort. however, if you have never met the photographer before, why on earth wouldn't you bring someone with you?

I wondered how long it would go before someone took the original post seriously, and I am not surprised it is a model. It's a joke. The stats are meaningless because there are too many variables left undefined. It's one of those funny things you can do with statistics, and shouldn't be used to support any decision you make about how you are going to do business.

Now, to further stretch the joke: Based on the numbers he posted, you are asking for trouble by becoming an 'acquantance' of the photographer. I mean, you are moving from the "safe" 30%!

Mikel Featherston wrote:

I wondered how long it would go before someone took the original post seriously, and I am not surprised it is a model. It's a joke. The stats are meaningless because there are too many variables left undefined. It's one of those funny things you can do with statistics, and shouldn't be used to support any decision you make about how you are going to do business.

Now, to further stretch the joke: Based on the numbers he posted, you are asking for trouble by becoming an 'acquantance' of the photographer. I mean, you are moving from the "safe" 30%!

sorry to ruin the fun.....i have just heard people say this same thing seriously, and it infuriates me.
i know that statistics are bullsh*t....i have a BA in biology and had to take a lot of statistics classes. you can pretty much prove whatever you want with the right analysis. please don't talk down to me because i am model.

Mikel Featherston wrote:
Now, to further stretch the joke: Based on the numbers he posted, you are asking for trouble by becoming an 'acquantance' of the photographer. I mean, you are moving from the "safe" 30%!

Most fatal car accidents happen under 45mph and within 5 miles of your house. To stay on the good side of the odds, I always drive 100mph and never go home...

Phoenix E wrote:
i know that statistics are bullsh*t....i have a BA in biology and had to take a lot of statistics classes. you can pretty much prove whatever you want with the right analysis. please don't talk down to me because i am model.

If you know the numbers aren't real, then why bother? I'm not talking down to you because you are a model. I'm talking down to you because you ACTED like you were ignorant.

If you are worried about someone taking it seriously, then post the reasons why the statistics are wrong and misleading, rather than post as if you took it seriously yourself.

Jim Sharp wrote:



Most fatal car accidents happen under 45mph and within 5 miles of your house. To stay on the good side of the odds, I always drive 100mph and never go home...

In the same vein of distorting statistics, there's an old Benny Hill joke.  The odds are a million to one that there's a bomb on the airplane you're on.  The odds are TEN million to one that there are two bombs.  Why take chances?  Next time you take a flight, bring your own bomb.

William Coleman wrote:

In the same vein of distorting statistics, there's an old Benny Hill joke.  The odds are a million to one that there's a bomb on the airplane you're on.  The odds are TEN million to one that there are two bombs.  Why take chances?  Next time you take a flight, bring your own bomb.

I like that one, too!

Virtue Photography wrote:
Many female models will bring a friend or boyfriend to a photoshoot for safety reasons.  However, this is a misplaced belief in safety.  Are photographers killing or raping models ?  If you watch the news you think its happening everyday.  Its not.  I have researched this as much as I can and I can come up with about 5 cases a year of photographers killing a model they were working with.  Sound like a lot ?  Consider this.....over 6,000 females are murdered every year in America.  75% of them are killed by a boyfriend, husband or close aquitance.   There are approx 95,000 sexual assualts against females every year in America.   70% of them will be committed by a family member, close aquitance or boyfriend.  With these numbers in mind, it would make more sense to take a photographer with you on a date than to take a boyfriend with you on a photoshoot.

This really isn't something to joke about, because in actual reality...the joke you made is how most photographers seriously feel about the issue.  Which is ridiculous and disturbing to most models (who are majority young beautiful females).  Models are prime targets for becoming victims in so many ways....scams, human trafficking, rape, murder, etc.  Joke or no joke.... There are more pervs with digital cameras these days claiming to be photographers.  All they want is to stare at women or to hit on the models during the so called photo shoots in hopes of getting dates with them. How do you know that the one photo shoot a model decides to attend without an escort might be the very time the model ends up with a nutty photographer ( with a criminal background and no intent but to rape or kill you) ?  You don't know.  So the best thing any model can do is to bring an escort to every single photo shoot (unless you know for sure that you can trust the photographer or client that you're working with.  Even then, it's still good extra pre-caution to bring an escort or at least let everyone know where you are. 

To me, any photographer that has an issue with models bring escorts around....I have to question.  For granted, boyfriends can be a pain in the ass for male photographers to deal with if they are shooting a female model in lingerie or something.  But as a professional photographer, the presence of another being should not disturb or bother you at the least.  Unless maybe you are inappropiately being turned on by the sheer view of the model you're shooting with.  In that case, drink some cold water, think of smurfs, and get back to shooting.  lol 

It is the model's responsiblity to make sure she keeps her escort (be it a boyfriend or friend ) in check with their behavior and to make sure to be purely professional during the shoot.  So if you're bothered by the fact that escorts tend to bring trouble to the photo shoot, just politely pull the model aside and inform them that their guest is causing issues if they are, or before the shoot even begins...inform the model that their guest must behave in a professional polite manner during the shoot, otherwise the photo shoot will be ended. 

But never discourage models (majority being beautiful women, young or old) to attend photo shoots without an escort for safety.  It's just wrong.  It may convenience you, but may later on inconvenience the model if something wrong ever happens at other future photo shoots with other photographers that couldn't be trusted.  While you guys may be joking about this subject matter, you have some models ( amateurs, newbies, etc. ) that are viewing this thread and actually taking it seriously without thinking first.

Mikel Featherston wrote:

If you know the numbers aren't real, then why bother? I'm not talking down to you because you are a model. I'm talking down to you because you ACTED like you were ignorant.

If you are worried about someone taking it seriously, then post the reasons why the statistics are wrong and misleading, rather than post as if you took it seriously yourself.

because the numbers aren't wrong. and my answer was the explanation as to why they are misleading

Phoenix E wrote:

because the numbers aren't wrong. and my answer was the explanation as to why they are misleading

But the numbers aren't necessarily right. He quotes 5 a year as what he was able to research. Depending on the time and effort he put into it, as well as the quality of the resources he has access to, this may or may not be anywhere near the real value. That alone should kill the 'reality' value of the post.

He also does not provide any photographer/model count for sexual assault, giving only the general case. He does not discuss percentage of shoots that are done with escorts vs. without. I just think there are more reasons to not take the post seriously than to take it seriously, and your first response really and truly looks like what I would expect from someone who thinks the poster is trying to make a real argument.

Farah Malika wrote:
To me, any photographer that has an issue with models bring escorts around....I have to question.  For granted, boyfriends can be a pain in the ass for male photographers to deal with if they are shooting a female model in lingerie or something.  But as a professional photographer, the presence of another being should not disturb or bother you at the least.  Unless maybe you are inappropiately being turned on by the sheer view of the model you're shooting with.  In that case, drink some cold water, think of smurfs, and get back to shooting.  lol

I have an issue with escorts. What do you question about me?

I am an older female photographer who has ADD so I get distracted relatively easily.  I'm an admitted control freak who doesn't particularly want the model's attention to be on anything other than my direction.   

Admittedly, I have been turned on by a few women in my life, but never a model.  But then again, I've never worked with Theda.  ; )     

I can't speak for the male photographer-- female model dynamic, but I get pretty tired of this constant assumption that every photographer is a male and that therefore any photographer (who has to be a male right??? I mean women can't really figure out how to use cameras can they??) who doesn't particularly want a third wheel skulking about has some secret motive.

Farah Malika wrote:
Models are prime targets for becoming victims in so many ways....scams, human trafficking, rape, murder, etc.

You're right.  And they're so thoughtless & naive they should NEVER be allowed out without proper escort.  Heaven forbid we let them go out to a club & pick up some strange guy, he might secretly be a photographer!

Virtue Photography wrote:
70% of them (murders) will be committed by a family member, close aquitance or boyfriend.  With these numbers in mind, it would make more sense to take a photographer with you on a date than to take a boyfriend with you on a photoshoot.

Word up!

Farah Malika wrote:

This really isn't something to joke about, because in actual reality...the joke you made is how most photographers seriously feel about the issue.  Which is ridiculous and disturbing to most models (who are majority young beautiful females).  Models are prime targets for becoming victims in so many ways....scams, human trafficking, rape, murder, etc.  Joke or no joke.... There are more pervs with digital cameras these days claiming to be photographers.  All they want is to stare at women or to hit on the models during the so called photo shoots in hopes of getting dates with them. How do you know that the one photo shoot a model decides to attend without an escort might be the very time the model ends up with a nutty photographer ( with a criminal background and no intent but to rape or kill you) ?  You don't know.  So the best thing any model can do is to bring an escort to every single photo shoot (unless you know for sure that you can trust the photographer or client that you're working with.  Even then, it's still good extra pre-caution to bring an escort or at least let everyone know where you are. 

To me, any photographer that has an issue with models bring escorts around....I have to question.  For granted, boyfriends can be a pain in the ass for male photographers to deal with if they are shooting a female model in lingerie or something.  But as a professional photographer, the presence of another being should not disturb or bother you at the least.  Unless maybe you are inappropiately being turned on by the sheer view of the model you're shooting with.  In that case, drink some cold water, think of smurfs, and get back to shooting.  lol 

It is the model's responsiblity to make sure she keeps her escort (be it a boyfriend or friend ) in check with their behavior and to make sure to be purely professional during the shoot.  So if you're bothered by the fact that escorts tend to bring trouble to the photo shoot, just politely pull the model aside and inform them that their guest is causing issues if they are, or before the shoot even begins...inform the model that their guest must behave in a professional polite manner during the shoot, otherwise the photo shoot will be ended. 

But never discourage models (majority being beautiful women, young or old) to attend photo shoots without an escort for safety.  It's just wrong.  It may convenience you, but may later on inconvenience the model if something wrong ever happens at other future photo shoots with other photographers that couldn't be trusted.  While you guys may be joking about this subject matter, you have some models ( amateurs, newbies, etc. ) that are viewing this thread and actually taking it seriously without thinking first.

You can't be serious.  Any model who takes a escort or her boyfriend to
a paid pro shoot via a agency won't be modeling long with that agency.
I know a former Elite model who pulled that crap.  She took her boyfriend
to a go see for a stores shoe shoot.  The agency booted her the next day.
I would take a escort to TFP shoots and to shoots where the photographer
asked me to shoot but never, never to a real pro shoot its like taking a friend
to your job.

Virtue Photography wrote:
Consider this.....over 6,000 females are murdered every year in America.  75% of them are killed by a boyfriend, husband or close aquitance.

And some fraction of those happen because models bring them along to a shoot where they sit idly on the sidelines for hours until suddenly.... they SNAP!

Of course, I don't mind if they bring their boyfriend to a shoot, but I really feel sorry for them sometimes.  And I always keep and eye open for those tell-tale signs of slipping over the edge into a psychotic rampage of murder and destruction.  If I see that happening, I lock up the equipment to keep it safe.

-Dave

DSP_Productions wrote:
Americans are a funny lot.

My priorities on any shoot:
                    everyones personal safety
                    it's good not to break any equipment
                    it's nice to end up with killer images

I have no problem with people bringing escorts however if I am doing a shoot I am not giving photography lessons at the same time.

Who you choose for an escort makes all the difference. It should be simply for safety sake. So take someone who is there for your safety not to be a distraction.

**** Boyfriends do not make good escorts to photo shoots.
****** likewise mom's who want to run the session


The best escort anyone ever brought to a session I have done was two twelve packs of beer, a platter of cheese, cold cuts, crackers and another couple.

She wanted to do some nude images which she had never done before. She was a little nervous so she wanted to make it a party. Her friends had a blast and she got great images.

I don't think this is a bad thread as sometimes it is easier and more powerful to make a dramatic point by the use of a little humor.

but then what do I know?
later,
david

Yeah-we are.  Got nudity and implied nudity everywhere and people get all strange about it.

I think you have the right perspective as well.

I don't tend to like escorts but if it makes the model feel safer and as long as they don't get in the way but personally I hate having someone looking over my shoulder as I work-ask my roomies, they know better than to knock on my door when I'm creating. 

Farah Malika wrote:
This really isn't something to joke about, because in actual reality...the joke you made is how most photographers seriously feel about the issue.  Which is ridiculous and disturbing to most INTERNET models (who are majority young beautiful females).  INTERNET Models are prime targets for becoming victims in so many ways....scams, human trafficking, rape, murder, etc.  Joke or no joke.... There are more INTERNET pervs with digital cameras these days claiming to be INTERNET photographers.  All they want is to stare at women or to hit on the INTERNET models during the so called photo shoots in hopes of getting dates with them. How do you know that the one photo shoot a INTERNET model decides to attend without an escort might be the very time the model ends up with a nutty INTERNET photographer ( with a criminal background and no intent but to rape or kill you) ?  You don't know.  So the best thing any INTERNET model can do is to bring an escort to every single INTERNET booked photo shoot (unless you know for sure that you can trust the INTERNET photographer you're working with.  Even then, it's still BAD  extra pre-caution to bring an escort or GOOD to at least let everyone know where you are. 

To me, any INTERNET photographer that has an issue with INTERNET models bring escorts around....I have to question.  For granted, boyfriends can be a pain in the ass for INTERNET photographers to deal with if they are shooting a INTERNET model in lingerie or something.  But as a professional photographer, the presence of another being WILL  disturb or bother you THE WHOLE SHOOT.  Unless you like someone jumping in and telling you how to do your job or someone distracting the "model" or someone else to feed or to have to worry about .  In that case, drink some cold water, BOOK SOME smurfs, and get back to shooting.  lol 

It is the INTERNET model's responsiblity to make sure she keeps her escort (be it a boyfriend or friend ) in check with their behavior and to make sure to be purely professional during the shoot.  So if you're bothered by the fact that escorts tend to bring trouble to the photo shoot, just politely pull the INTERNET model aside and inform them that their guest is causing issues if they are, or before the shoot even begins...inform the INTERNET model that their guest must behave in a professional polite manner during the shoot, otherwise the photo shoot will be ended. 

But never discourage INTERNET models (majority being beautiful women, young or old) to attend INTERNET booked photo shoots without an escort for safety.  It's just wrong.  It may convenience you, but may later on inconvenience the INTERNET model if something wrong ever happens at other future INTERNET booked photo shoots with other INTERNET photographers that couldn't be trusted.  While you guys may be joking about this subject matter, you have some INTERNET models ( amateurs, newbies, etc. ) that are viewing this thread and actually taking it seriously without thinking first.

KM von Seidl wrote:
I have an issue with escorts. What do you question about me?

I am an older female photographer who has ADD so I get distracted relatively easily.  I'm an admitted control freak who doesn't particularly want the model's attention to be on anything other than my direction.   

Admittedly, I have been turned on by a few women in my life, but never a model.  But then again, I've never worked with Theda.  ; )     

I can't speak for the male photographer-- female model dynamic, but I get pretty tired of this constant assumption that every photographer is a male and that therefore any photographer (who has to be a male right??? I mean women can't really figure out how to use cameras can they??) who doesn't particularly want a third wheel skulking about has some secret motive.

Exactly!!!  Except the part about being a female photographer of course.

I'm really tired having grown up in the era whose mantra seems to be "all men are animals and not to be trusted". 

I'm a male and I am seriousy offended by this.  Seriously offended.

As for a woman getting a bad feeling about a photographer...ahem, I've seen who you choose to date and go to really secluded isolated places with in skimpy outifts after consuming large quantities of alcohol.  Your judgement or intuition isn't anything to brag about.  By the way Charles Manson wants to know if you and he are still on for friday.

Finally, were I to judge all models by just my personal experience, not even word of mouth or urban legend, I would have to assume that any model who wanted to bring an escort was more interested in burglarizing me than modeling.  Been there done that, have reason to have my own prejudice about the matter.

Farah Malika wrote:
This really isn't something to joke about,

I didn't think the OP was joking.  I just thought he was trying to bring in some perspective to balance out the paranoia.  I think women have to use common sense in everything they do and it gets old hearing people constantly waving around the life-threatening dangers of internet modeling as if it's only a matter of time before each model disappears, never to be heard from again.  Photographers jump on the bandwagon to be chivalrous and for fear of being labeled as part of the problem and models often become indignant at the jokes even as they refuse to ever check references.

I, on the other hand, was joking about it in my post above about boyfriends.  Everythng is fair game for humor because it helps keep things in perspective. 

-Dave

Virtue Photography wrote:
The media has branded photographers perverts, pedophiles, rapists and killers, and for some reason, despite the facts, that label has stuck.

To be honest, the only people I see recklessly appying those labels to internet photographers are other internet photographers and internet models.   

-Dave

Dave Krueger wrote:

To be honest, the only people I see recklessly appying those labels to internet photographers are other internet photographers and internet models.   

-Dave

I've been doing this for 18 years, how bout you?

Even back in the late 80's-before the internet was common it was a common thing to hear models talking about the fear of getting raped/murdered on a shoot.

commart wrote:
You're going to laugh at ol' Commart, but when I saw the thread title, "Perspective on Photo Shoot Safety", I thought about real issues, and there are a few.

No I won't laugh at all. I thought about real issues as well...I only clicked because I presumed it would be a thread about liability or something along those lines.

I've been fortunate thus far with a perfect safety record on shoots, but it's only a matter of time.

I have available a liability waiver, releasing me and the property owner of wherever I am set up from responsibility should someone injure themselves, but I've been very lax on getting people to sign them.  I should really have about 100 copies of them just in case, but I never remember.

There are several issues, ranging from allergies, to accidents, to intentional maliciousness on the part of others on the set...all of which the photographer could be held liable for.