Photographer
j-shooter
Posts: 1912
San Francisco, California, US
studio L wrote:
E|||B wrote:
The term comes up again. And like a pedantic geek superhero, I must swoop-down as a caped crusader and preach like James Brown in The Blues Brothers.
I am completely supportive and encouraging of the idea of a model being accompanied to a photoshoot. However, I insist that their company be a "personal assistant" and not an "escort" or a "chaperone" - because I think the terminology is an important distinction to help models feel more secure, strong and empowered. I will NEVER allow an escort. Because I don't want to shoot with a little girl who feels like a "potential victim" going to a "potentially dangerous" situation being "escorted" by her boyfriend or mommy. And "chaperones" are for children on gradeschool fieldtrips. My photoshoots are not fieldtrips. I encourage "personal assistants" because I want my models to be people who are liberated, confident and strong and have "assistance" because they are so awesome and glorious. Good post.
Words have meaning.
I too have no desire to shoot "potential victims". I too wish to shoot enpowered adventurous and self-aware models, or those who are seeking those qualities.
Photographer
j-shooter
Posts: 1912
San Francisco, California, US
I've only been shooting a few months. When do the models start asking me to have sex? Is it after my photoshop skills improve some more, lol! 
Photographer
Malloch
Posts: 2566
Hastings, England, United Kingdom
This chaperone business has been done to death on this site. Some like it others don't. Personally I feel if a model feels she needs a chaperone for her safety at a shoot she should not be there in the first place. I have had my share of bad experinces so I no longer allow chaperones (except when required by law for models underage) on a shoot. I have had equipment and cash stolen, had to tell some to leave with the model because of constant interference during the shoot (and this was not limited to boyfriends and husbands), models wanting me to pay the chaperones expenses on location shoots abroad. Also as I have mentioned on this site several times chaperones in the studio complex or on location are not covered by my insurance. Therefore the model must have liability insurance cover for them, which none of them seem to have.
Photographer
S1studio
Posts: 98
Union City, California, US
I don't think TFP photographers should be trusted, yet all the models on this site are here for TFP.
Photographer
R Michael Walker
Posts: 11987
Costa Mesa, California, US
Sairas Photography wrote:
I don't think TFP photographers should be trusted, yet all the models on this site are here for TFP. What are YOU smoking?
Mike
Photographer
S1studio
Posts: 98
Union City, California, US
I guess you do TFP... I said that based on experiences of a few of my models.
Model
Jane Weiss
Posts: 2027
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom
Sairas Photography wrote:
I don't think TFP photographers should be trusted, yet all the models on this site are here for TFP. she's right... if someone likes my work that much they really would pay me if i declined tfp because i was too busy or didn't need it at the moment. they'd atleast offer part pay or some other incentive. the ones who only ever shoot tfp are the ones that are after a free model no matter what the quality of her work. its strange. not perverted or untrustworthy... it just raises my eyebrows slightly.
Photographer
J C ModeFotografie
Posts: 14718
Los Angeles, California, US
Sairas Photography wrote:
I guess you do TFP... I said that based on experiences of a few of my models. Yes, Sairas - what indeed are you smoking? The real trouble comes in when you have models who don't know good photography from bad photography - so they do TFP with guys who aren't really in it for their photography and hence arent' trustworthy. All but a few of the images on MY portfolio are from tests - are you saying I'm not trustworthy? Perhaps you are speaking of models' bad experiences with you!
JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER
Photographer
J C ModeFotografie
Posts: 14718
Los Angeles, California, US
Sian Louise wrote:
she's right... if someone likes my work that much they really would pay me if i declined tfp because i was too busy or didn't need it at the moment. they'd atleast offer part pay or some other incentive. the ones who only ever shoot tfp are the ones that are after a free model no matter what the quality of her work. its strange. not perverted or untrustworthy... it just raises my eyebrows slightly. I can understand about your wanting to get paid for artistic nude work - the understanding there is that you will be signing a model release so that the photographer can use the resulting images commercially (sell prints of it, for example). But those of us who shoot fashion need a way to build and refresh our portfolios without it costing us an arm and a leg. It's an even exchange - since everyone participating in the test is to receive pics for their portfolios.
JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER
Photographer
J C ModeFotografie
Posts: 14718
Los Angeles, California, US
Eric S. wrote:
theda wrote:
Are they named Eric? Theda, I lived in Miami for 2 years, so the fact that you say "Eric" can be misleading in a thread like this, so please clearly state you are referring to another Eric in South Florida, because honestly, your comment was quite slanderous.
I'm horrified to think I could be associated with such scumbags...
I sincerely hope that all of you start being more specific about who you're referring to, because using someone's first name in a VERY negative thread like this is wrong. If you people know something, just say it, so finally everyone can come forward and lay their hands out on the table. To all of you - I have never heard anything bad about Eric Striffler, his reputation is unimpeachable. I should know, as I have been moving more or less within the same photographic circles as he has for years.
JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER
Photographer
JM Dean
Posts: 8931
Cary, North Carolina, US
HUH, lets dig up another thread that is a year old
Model
Angela G
Posts: 376
Los Angeles, California, US
Adonis G wrote:
Why aren't more girls coming out and either calling the Police or doing something about it. I have heard a few stories about some guys down here in Florida, and I CAN NOT understand why the girls stay quiet??
A guy in east central Florida, who gets (
Photographer
D Freeman
Posts: 490
Fresno, California, US
Sairas Photography wrote:
I don't think TFP photographers should be trusted, yet all the models on this site are here for TFP. You *can't* be this stupid. A few models(whom you barely know I'm sure) tell you horror stories, and your conclusion is that all TFP photogs are predators? What about the 20 models who *didn't* have horror stories? Did you just discount them, or did you just assume that they're keeping all the good stuff to themselves? If you are unwilling or unable to think for yourself, then please, PLEASE hand in your ovaries. The last thing we need are more of you lemmings running around.
With the exception of one model, everything in my port was shot on a TFP basis.. am I not to be trusted because of that? Based on what?
I know this doesn't jive with what your short-haired womens history prof's told you, but..
All men are not predators.
All men with cameras are not predators.
All men with cameras who help new models by shooting TFP are not predators.
I'm even going to go out on a limb and say that most of the models who bring along an "escort" are doing so because they're too lazy to check references. If they had checked the references, then they wouldn't feel the need to bring an "escort" because...
...they would either know that:
a.) The photog is a creep, and that they should stay away.
b.) The photog is not a creep, and it's safe to shoot with them.
Neither of those options requires an escort.
Photographer
Terrence Blount
Posts: 379
Chicago, Illinois, US
Sairas Photography wrote:
I don't think TFP photographers should be trusted, yet all the models on this site are here for TFP. Only a full-time photographer that's makes his/her living shooting would say something like that. Some of us photographers that are not popularly known or getting started use TFPs to get their feet in the door. Eventually at some point when they've spent enough money on studio rental, stylist, and other miscellaneous expenses that they would no longer do TFPs.
Photographer
Natalie Photography
Posts: 161
Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
What ever happened to Bob Shell? Did 12 people decided if he crossed the line or not?
Photographer
Jim Ball
Posts: 17632
Frontenac, Kansas, US
Terrence Blount wrote:
Only a full-time photographer that's makes his/her living shooting would say something like that. Some of us photographers that are not popularly known or getting started use TFPs to get their feet in the door. Eventually at some point when they've spent enough money on studio rental, stylist, and other miscellaneous expenses that they would no longer do TFPs. TFP is like piano practice.
A concert pianist gets paid very well for his or her performances, but must practice constantly between performances to keep their skills honed razor sharp. Nobody pays that pianist to practice.
If a photographer or model is fortunate enough to be booked constantly for paid work, then fine and good--they probably do not need much practice. If they are not getting booked, then they need to practice for the same reasons the pianist does. TFP is practice for models and photographers.
Photographer
ChristopherRoss
Posts: 1559
Eškašem, Badakhshan, Afghanistan
Sairas Photography wrote:
I don't think TFP photographers should be trusted, yet all the models on this site are here for TFP. If my market could support full time photographers you may have a point but it can't, and many many markets can't. What few photographers we have in our small community don't shoot full time and when we do it's often with inexperienced models who have very little future in the business.
Should we bill them top rate for our time? Pay them despite their lack of skills? or accept that to keep our skills crisp, we should do TFP work with them?
Photographer
Bp3 Images
Posts: 172
Fayetteville, Arkansas, US
Terrence Blount wrote:
Sairas Photography wrote:
I don't think TFP photographers should be trusted, yet all the models on this site are here for TFP. Last year I spent alot of money working with some great models. Paid shoots for them. I've bought equipment, went to workshops, hours spent on PS and much more to build up my portfolio and gain experience.
This year I shoot strictly tfp. Mostly from new models contacting me. And recently started getting some experienced models too. Although I could probably charge I don't. I remember when I started and am happy to do it.
So in my eyes Tfp can be an advantage to both the photog and model who are professional and in it for the long haul.
Bill
Photographer
Art Liem
Posts: 54
Los Angeles, California, US
Adonis G wrote:
Why aren't more girls coming out and either calling the Police or doing something about it. I have heard a few stories about some guys down here in Florida, and I CAN NOT understand why the girls stay quiet?? Ah, it's that classic why are women attracted to a$$holes question. Remember the gorgeous girl in highschool that went out with the jerk? Same thing.
This is an industry filled with those jerks.
Regards, Art.
Photographer
J C ModeFotografie
Posts: 14718
Los Angeles, California, US
Natalie Photography wrote:
What ever happened to Bob Shell? Did 12 people decided if he crossed the line or not? It appears the Bob Shell trial has been scheduled for September 18th. And no, I never did like his photography.
Here's the article: http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/xp-67980
JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23400
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Demarcus Freeman wrote:
You *can't* be this stupid. A few models(whom you barely know I'm sure) tell you horror stories, and your conclusion is that all TFP photogs are predators? What about the 20 models who *didn't* have horror stories? Did you just discount them, or did you just assume that they're keeping all the good stuff to themselves? If you are unwilling or unable to think for yourself, then please, PLEASE hand in your ovaries. The last thing we need are more of you lemmings running around.
With the exception of one model, everything in my port was shot on a TFP basis.. am I not to be trusted because of that? Based on what?
I know this doesn't jive with what your short-haired womens history prof's told you, but..
All men are not predators.
All men with cameras are not predators.
All men with cameras who help new models by shooting TFP are not predators.
I'm even going to go out on a limb and say that most of the models who bring along an "escort" are doing so because they're too lazy to check references. If they had checked the references, then they wouldn't feel the need to bring an "escort" because...
...they would either know that:
a.) The photog is a creep, and that they should stay away.
b.) The photog is not a creep, and it's safe to shoot with them.
Neither of those options requires an escort. I couldn't agree more!
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
Sairas Photography wrote:
yet all the models on this site are here for TFP. Because 90% of them are brokeass students.
Photographer
Bryan Benoit
Posts: 2106
Miami, Florida, US
Sairas Photography wrote:
I don't think TFP photographers should be trusted, yet all the models on this site are here for TFP. I agree... YOU DON'T THINK.
Sorry for being so harsh but general statements like this show very poor judgement. I shoot TFCD and I charge... what does that make me? A split personality photographer?
I still do TFCD because while my pics are fairly decent they are not quite at the level that I want them to be. I have another job that pays the bills so I can afford to give models breaks with TFCD on occasion and it gives me the chance to try new stuff that I couldn't do while shooting for a paying client.
I love shooting... if I have the opportunity to work with someone that I like I will do it even if I don't get $$$. Great images are sometimes more than enough.
Bryan
PS: I have it from very good sources that the Eric S. that has posted on this thread is a stand up guy with a reputation of gold. People should be more careful when making 'half statements'.
Photographer
Art Schotz
Posts: 2879
Lima, Ohio, US
I know that lists are not allowed here on MM. There are several sites, as have already been mentioned, that allow you to list your complaints. Some of those lists include both models and photogs.
And there are obvious methods to employ to avoid these situations, like always having an escort.
But if it's allowed, would a thread for models to simply list their names as references for situations they've experienced be allowed here?
That way, you could search for an area and contact models from that area to check out who is nice and who is not. And you could check several models from the same area to see if there's any credibility to each particular story. I suspect that predators don't usually stop after just one time. Some repeatability would show up.
Using that sort of directory, you wouldn't be posting public accusations of anyone, only listing people whom you could reference to benefit from their experience. It could even be it's own category, "Model Experiences"
It's just an idea that comes from too early in the morning and not enough coffee yet.
Photographer
Dalmar
Posts: 319
Miami, Florida, US
Sairas Photography wrote:
I guess you do TFP... I said that based on experiences of a few of my models. How many models do you own? Or did you mean you manage them? What do you mean by "a few of my models"?
Photographer
Myke Newman
Posts: 31
Memphis, Tennessee, US
It's a shame that people like that exist. A model should never allow themselves to placed in such situations, but unfortunately it does occur. To all out there, be careful, if you feel uncomfortable with a photographer end the session and leave.
Photographer
Myke Newman
Posts: 31
Memphis, Tennessee, US
It's a shame that people like that exist. A model should never allow themselves to placed in such situations, but unfortunately it does occur. To all out there, be careful, if you feel uncomfortable with a photographer end the session and leave.
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