Diana Moffitt wrote:
Tearsheets.

Exactly!!!!

Shyly wrote:
In my case, since I am an art model and not a commercial model, it's the art world version of tearsheets: images of me being included in books, on gallery walls, in the homes of art collectors, things like that.  It also, to me, has to do with having worked regularly and steadily at this for awhile now, being dependable and reliable, and having learned a few things along the way.

Those are the reasons I chose that designation, anyway.

Those are considered tearsheets!  Because you are getting actual exposure from your work!  Besides just the internet!  You are a fab art model by the way shyly

Darryl Martin wrote:
I think "tearsheets" is quite a reasonable answer.

Tearsheets are generally a result of production planning, set goals and often mean team work.   These elements lead to gaining professional attitudes and practices.

I have nothing against tfp's, but I feel the learned experience, does not lead to professional "experiences".  Again, nothing wrong with this, but my interpretation of the meaning of the original post.

Respectfully, Darryl

Exactamundo.  Too many models and photogs get the misconception that you are ''experienced'' just because you test and have an agent.

Darryl Martin wrote:
re: "experienced" and "Professional" being the same.

Not really, but it's difficult to place into words that we can all use as references. 

In a broad sense, "professional" could easily just be defined as getting paid.  But I think we pretty much use it to define someone that uses good work ethics and practices.  (at least I would lean toward that definition)

It would be quite unfair to label someone as "non-professional" just because they are not making the majority of their income out of this business.

I know it's dangerous to throw these terms out there.  Thanx, for asking the question.

sure..they need to be discussed in line with the ORIGINAL POST...personally havving a legit agent is much needed to be a professional...or at least a manager...whether you have a lot of experience or not..A LEGIT AGENT especially based in major market
and thank you for thanking me :--)

Diana Moffitt wrote:
Elahi,

I know a lot of agency girls and boys that only test and go to several go sees with little success of getting a booking.  Does this make them professional/experienced?  Not necessarily.  This is a tough business and it's hard to make it as a real ''professional''.  You have to pitch yourself amongst the greatest!

Hi Diana,

How are you today?

No. However, just like all roads (for fashion anyway) lead to NY, Paris & London, I think that having an agent is an indication of a level of success...A LEGIT AGENT in a major market! So all roads, as an aspiring model, lead to agency representation. Now thats my humble opinion.

Diana Moffitt wrote:
I am doing peachy sir!

I do agree with you!  Having an agent is vital.  But it doesn't guarantee you stardom or money!  Even if you were with one of the top ten agencies it doesn't guarantee success at all.  That's why they put in your contract that you are an ''independent contractor''. 

I know a model that is signed with the 10th largest modeling agency and this young lad only made 5k last year from modeling.

agrred! only reson why I bring this up is becasue there are so many who dont feel that an agent is necessary...well a legit agent can get you in some doors thatonly a legit agent can!

Elin Striga wrote:
Well, a tearsheet can come from the models first TFP session so I wouldn't say tearsheet. I would say that a photographer see on a model when she has reached the "experienced" level. She knows her body and knows how to work it. She knows what to hide from the camera and what to show. She is versatile, have a great self esteem and is easy to work with. She has a good eye for what pictures of her is good (that will work in a magazine etc) and which are not: She can see on a photographers portfolio if his work is worth a TFP shoot.
This is MY definition of an experienced model.

How do you get a tearsheet from your first TFP session?  Isn't tfp time for print and there is no client involved to endorse?

Sogno Dolce wrote:
What makes you an experienced model versus a model with only "some experience"?  Like when can someone finally call themselves an experienced model?

I think it's almost impossible to answer this question with any kind of precision without specifying what kind of modeling you're referring to.  I consider the independint internet modeling world to be different from the brick and mortar mainstream modeling world.  I think you're getting responses from both perspectives which tend to conflict.

-Dave

Diana Moffitt wrote:

How do you get a tearsheet from your first TFP session?  Isn't tfp time for print and there is no client involved to endorse?

Well you can send the pic to a magazine and if they like it they will print it. Happened to one of my models, we didn't send in the pic in this case, it was all contacts, a magazine was looking for a page 3 model and someone thought of my work, the magazine contacted me and wanted a b/w shot and I sent in a couple I thought would fit. They chose the newbie model pic. (This pic btw... http://trollkatt.com/pinup/4.jpg but cropped so it would fit into one page.)

Diana Moffitt wrote:
Those are considered tearsheets!  Because you are getting actual exposure from your work!  Besides just the internet!  You are a fab art model by the way shyly

Thank you very much, Diana!  I like your work, too.  You're fierce.

Elin Striga wrote:
(This pic btw... http://trollkatt.com/pinup/4.jpg but cropped so it would fit into one page.)

She's adorable, Elin.  You have access to some righteous models.  I see why they chose it!

Shyly wrote:

She's adorable, Elin.  You have access to some righteous models.  I see why they chose it!

Thank you very much!! Show her some looove hun...
https://modelmayhem.com/member.php?id=7951

Sogno Dolce wrote:
What makes you an experienced model versus a model with only "some experience"?  Like when can someone finally call themselves an experienced model?

working with only one photographer.

Fluffing each others egos to make it look there better then what they really are.

No  Tearsheets  or print work.

seeking paid assingments with other photographers after ONE shoot with repetitive photographer.

Elin Striga wrote:
a tearsheet can come from the models first TFP session so I wouldn't say tearsheet

Ditto! Might be the photographer was experieced & new how to market [ ] better; the model might have just been in the right place, at the right time.

FML

Diana Moffitt wrote:
Exactamundo.  Too many models and photogs get the misconception that you are ''experienced'' just because you test and have an agent.

yep tears, and from things people have heard of

Sogno Dolce wrote:
What makes you an experienced model versus a model with only "some experience"?  Like when can someone finally call themselves an experienced model?

When they have experience. 

images by elahi wrote:
Are the terms "experienced" and "Professional" necessarily the same?

I don't think so...

I've been an "experienced" amateur/hobbyist for several years now.  I like to believe I handle myself in a "professional" manner, but do not classify myself as one because I do not make a sole living from it.

Rich Mohr wrote:
Good responses so far!
How about us photographers? I've had a few images printed in various college newspapers. Does this count? If not, why?   
Rich

In my opinion an experienced photographer has two valuable traits.

1)  From a lighting standpoint, they can get the shot.  This could include poor lighting, noon harsh lighting.  Basically, the client makes the call as to where and when and the photographer can't say "it's bad light."  Experience overcomes that.

2)  You don't have a bad day.  Client expects the shot they paid you for.  Experience gives you the ability to be consistant and get good shots, no exceptions, no excuses.

(P.S. not claiming I'm there on either of these definitions but that's my definition for experience.)

Rich Mohr wrote:
Good responses so far!
How about us photographers? I've had a few images printed in various college newspapers. Does this count? If not, why?   

Rich

I can answer that one... it's easy:

Having a few images printed in various college newspapers as a photographer will make you in NO WAY an experienced model!

UdoR wrote:

I can answer that one... it's easy:

Having a few images printed in various college newspapers as a photographer will make you in NO WAY an experienced model!

Ah you must have snuck a peek at a few of my self portraits, lol!

Diana Moffitt wrote:
Tearsheets.

Wow, I guess I should change mine to "experienced," but even if I've only done about 8 or so shoots?  That just didn't seem right to me...even though I've been in mags (national and international) and made a cover in Germany.   

I think I want to do at least 4 or more shoots w/reputable photographers before I feel comfortable upgrading myself. Even though I've been published and had feature spreads, I still feel like I have some minor things to work out w/how I pose my body at times.  Though it improves with each shoot, I want to get to where I don't even have to think about it, I just DO it.