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Self Defense Question
Good morning Mayhemmers, I asked this on another thread, but my query got lost in the heated discussion. I've noticed the whole escort thing just keeps popping up. Repeatedly. On a daily basis. I'm wondering how many models who are regularly concerned or worried about the safety of what they're doing practice or learn some form of self defense? Or do you entirely rely on someone else to keep you from harm? This goes along with Eric's extremely sensible terminology shift, from "escort" or "chaperone" to "personal assistant." I'd like to see more women feeling less like victims, and more safe in their bodies and the world in general. I've noticed I feel much more comfortable and at ease since I began studying self defense and martial arts. I've had to put that bit of training to use a couple of times, and having done so I now know something I didn't before - it'll take some doing if someone wants to hurt me. That person will have to try a hell of a lot harder than they would have had to a year ago. I'm not saying common sense and practical safety measures are a bad idea, don't get me wrong. I'm saying that perhaps it would be a good idea if more women in general, and models in this context specifically, considered learning self defense one of those practical safety measures. Do you? If not, why not? If so, has it changed things? Jun 08 05 12:06 pm Link Good for you Shyly. I wish they would offer self defense courses to young gals while in school, along with the other lessons on how to avoid being a vitim. I know self defense is not the end all to end all, but that little bit of training and being aware of your surroundings, just might save your life. John Jun 08 05 12:15 pm Link Hey Shyly... This topic of 'chaperones and escorts' is something that we have addressed in the 'credits' section of our MM page. It may not be for everyone, but it's an option that MANY models (expecially those in SoCal) have chosen to exercise... check it out! Jun 08 05 12:15 pm Link I think one thing a model could do if she isn't planning on bringing an escort is to get the specific time/location of the shoot and tell friends/family of her whereabouts and when to expect her to be home. The model then has to make sure that the shoot time/location doesn't change. If it does she needs to inform people of the change. Jun 08 05 12:17 pm Link This may not be completely relevant, but I thought it was a good example. Somebody once told me you don't really need any training for self defense, you just need to be motivated. His example was the average housecat. You can pick up a kitty and pet it and make it purr and everything is fine. Take the same cat outside, and try to put it in the mailbox. The cat will mess you up badly before you ever get it inside the box. What does a cat weigh, 12 lbs? All the cat has to do is make your life miserable enough that putting it in the mailbox just isn't worth the pain. He said you just have to be like that cat. An overly simplistic example, but I liked it just for the visual. Another good one was a story I read about an elderly lady who woke up to find a nekkid guy standing next to her bed. He informed her she was going to perform orally on him. She responded by grabbing his twig in one hand and his berries in another and twisting in opposite directions. He howled that she was kiling him. She told him he ought to just go ahead and die then. Damn funny story, IMHO. OK, kind of a tangent. Sorry. Back to your regular discussion. ;-) (IF there was a point I'd say that training isn't as valuable as a willingness to inflict pain on somebody who is trying to hurt you. If you read stories about people who have been victimized it's surprising how passive some people are.) Jun 08 05 12:18 pm Link Well... when I modeled I never brought an escort with me... I do have to admit though that I date a personal trainer/martial arts specialist (for the last three years)... I also studied self defense for a while... I also have to agree with Larry... "Motivation" is key... and my cat has kicked my @$$ many a time, as has my vicious little Pembrooke Welsh Corgi. Jun 08 05 12:26 pm Link I have been teaching Martial-arts since 1970.. I believe very much that everyone needs training.. I have trained Police-Military-Bodyguards-bouncers-models and for over 20 years troubled girls!! Again the model in my avitar after a year of training with me was attacked at nite in a parking lot from behind.. She retaliated by knockin the guy out- police came and took the guy away..She is safe!!! When i was 18 my girlfriend was raped and murderd!! Since then i have lost 7 girlfriends to crazy Murderers!! I dont want to lose anymore .. So i spend my life traning others to maybe sure they can be safe!! Jun 08 05 12:26 pm Link Posted by LarryB: This would be nice but we are not cave man anymore.. Jun 08 05 12:31 pm Link Posted by Hugh Jorgen ©: You have GOT to start hanging out in a better part of town. So a total of 8 women you've dated have been murdered? Has the FBI talked to you yet? I've had some bad luck, but WOW. Jun 08 05 12:32 pm Link Posted by John Swoger: I think I was lucky, John, but I went to schools that taught us all some basics. (Boys need this stuff too!) It should definitely be more common, I agree. Posted by Select Models: That looks like its working really well for yall. Great idea! Ive heard about similar events up here, but havent attended one yet. I hadnt thought about it from a safety perspective, but that does indeed make a lot of sense. Posted by Jarod: I absolutely agree, Jarod, and would venture to say this is a habit that would be good for most models to get into. (In fact, this is a good reminder that I need to be more painstaking about doing so. Thank you!) Posted by LarryB: Larry, I absolutely agree with what you said. Theres a lot of passivity out there, particularly in people whove been trained to see themselves as victims, or who expect to be victimized. Some kind of training is just as important on that psychological level as it is on any kind of physical level. Thank you for bringing that up, its spot on! Most predators are looking for easy prey. Make things difficult, and the odds are good that theyll give up. Posted by Reese: Ive got a little fluffball that rules the roost, too. Shes nothing but attitude, but the 75lb dog is (rightly) terrified of her. Jun 08 05 12:34 pm Link Posted by Hugh Jorgen ©: OK, I thought my post was a little irrelevant, but you win. Here's your trophy. Jun 08 05 12:34 pm Link In 1976 i moved from san fran to a little town in oregon-since the i have lost 3 girls to murdrers-- moving did not help solve this problem.. only we can stop this action thru education and training Jun 08 05 12:38 pm Link Quote by Shyly: Ive got a little fluffball that rules the roost, too. Shes nothing but attitude, but the 75lb dog is (rightly) terrified of her. ********************************** I've got an 80lb pitt bull - he tore up my corgi up pretty bad :::sniff::: $3000.00 worth of medical bills... (Broke his leg once, and then mauled him almost to death - now we keep them seperated) heh heh heh... Could you imagine a photographer's face if a model pranced in with an 80lb (pure muscle) pitt bull as an escort? Jun 08 05 12:42 pm Link Posted by Reese: Oh, man, that's so sad! Poor little Corgi. Jun 08 05 12:51 pm Link Posted by Shyly: My point exactly. Traning is great, as it builds self confidence as well as familiarity with your weapon of choice (being martial arts, guns, mace, batons, dogs, whatever). It's amazing to me how many people are not willing to fight to survive. You can have all the training you want, but you'll still have to cross the mental bridge where you can look somebody right in the eye and cause them extreme pain or mortal wounds without hesitation. Jun 08 05 12:53 pm Link There's a lot of good tips. I hope the site owner (Tyler) could turn some of this information into a "Model's Guide"... Jun 08 05 12:56 pm Link I've got to read this stuff in a better mood. It makes me want to give up shooting with models, even though I've had just about nothing but fun, and over 90% of the shoots have been solo. I have never known anyone personally who was later murdered, and to think of a handful of girlfriends who have been - well, yikes. Based on my own experience of what has killed off my friends and family, I'd like to see a thread on "early cancer detection." I guess I'm sheltered. As stated in another thread - where does it stop? If a model brings her chap ... errr, personal assistant, who's to say they're not trying to set me up for a mugging or phony charges for some half-assed blackmail scheme? Do I bring my own ... um... personal assistant? Yeah, I'm all for a woman, or anyone, learning self-defense techniques. That's just good common sense. Other than that, make friends with people who are well-behaved and stop hanging with the bipolars and schizos. Stick to good neighborhoods. Get a dog. When shooting with the solo types (like me), check on references and experience before shooting with someone, and try to talk to them first. If you shoot solo, tell someone where you're going and who you're with, and have a cell phone call arranged with someone to let them know how you're doing. Yeah, even a well-known photographer can go psycho. So can a devoted husband, or wife, or charity volunteer, or surgeon, or postal worker. One can't be too careful? Well, if paranoia sucks the enjoyment out of life, one can. I try to live my life within reasonable safety, but with the knowledge that bad things might happen anyway. It's not for everybody, but it works for me. Jun 08 05 12:59 pm Link Here's my .02 cents... Self defense is a must for all persons in this day and age. That being said, if you do not trust the people you are working with, why are you working with them? At 95% of my shoots there is a MUA and possibly a stylist. Do you really think I'd allow anything to happen to my model at the shoot? No way! Safetly for my models is #1. I allow an unintrusive escort, no problem at all. I just object when the model comes with an entourage of people. My place just isn't big enough for 6 or more people in the shooting area! Jun 08 05 01:01 pm Link Posted by LarryB: Posted by Shyly: My point exactly. Traning is great, as it builds self confidence as well as familiarity with your weapon of choice (being martial arts, guns, mace, batons, dogs, whatever). It's amazing to me how many people are not willing to fight to survive. You can have all the training you want, but you'll still have to cross the mental bridge where you can look somebody right in the eye and cause them extreme pain or mortal wounds without hesitation. Yes, I do... He's so darn cute.... I love him... he's tri-colored... Cute as can be and gets along well with my other pets... (except the dang pitt bull). His name is "Charlie." (AKC is Sir Charles Ferdinand MCGillicutty) The pitt bull is named "Diesel." Then I have cats... and fish... and aquatic dwarf frogs... and a mouse... Jun 08 05 01:02 pm Link Posted by Justin: Great post, Justin! (I abbreviated the quoting to save space, but I agreed with you.) I've actually been wondering just this very thing. I'm going to be learning some photography, and though for awhile I'll be shooting friends and family I wrangle into holding still, I imagine eventually I'll want to get someone I don't know in front of my camera. The idea of big hulking paranoid boyfriends escorting people makes *me* nervous in that context! Jun 08 05 01:06 pm Link Being 5'1 and physically disabled there would be no way for me to protect myself if someone really wanted to harm me. Thats why when I work with someone for the first time I bring my friend with me, who happens to be a rather large guy. He has also done some modeling so he knows how things work. If a photographer has a problem with it than I explain my situation and if he/she still says I cannot bring him then goodbye and have a nice life. Jun 08 05 01:17 pm Link I once wrote this big ole article on model safety/awareness, but it got lost in an old forum. I'm all for model safety. I'm trying to do a job, not date them. Jun 08 05 01:20 pm Link Posted by LarryB: I hope that situation has changed for the better in the last 20 years. With hollywood putting out more movies featuring women as strong and able bodied, educated and agile heroines, it damn well better. Jun 08 05 01:25 pm Link never mind---edit this one out Jun 08 05 01:26 pm Link Posted by Hugh Jorgen ©: You know Hugh, what if someone who is doing martial arts as long as us (I didn't teach until later, but I am a martial artist since 1972) is turning psycho? Jun 08 05 01:31 pm Link I have to full heartedly agree, Common sense, awareness, and training are Key elements. as a little background for my qualifications on this subject, I'm an NRA Certified Pistol and Personal Protection Instructor. as has been said before if the person gives you "Creepy Vibes" odds are you should listen to that feeling. Stay aware of your surroundings and have a plan, Always... Most bad guys are looking for victims...Don't act and look like a victim and you will most likely get skipped over in their quest for easier prey. Even if you don't bring a personal assistant with you to shoots, File a flight plan. Let a friend or relative know where you will be, ADDRESS And all. When you arrive make a visible call to them saying, "I'm here at the shoot we had talked about" confirm with the photographer how long it should run, and tell the other person you will call them when you are done. Now Please turn off your phone or mute it. (Photographers viewpoint there) Now the Photog knows you have someone who knows you are there and when You should be getting done. Oh yeah, Remember to Actually call that person when you are done. I also agree with Hugh on the benefits of training, the self confidence and alert levels gained do have a certain "Deterrent Effect". My wife takes Aikido, and I'm pretty impressed with it, it doesn't require great amounts of strength, and is a defensive art with a graduated response philosophy. Jun 08 05 01:33 pm Link Posted by Udo R Photography: I agree, and that's something I usually do. I also think that the discussion is already at a point where it's beating a dead horse. I (obviously) disagree. This isn't ye olde chaperone question. That's the whole point. It seems my communication skills need some work! Jun 08 05 01:35 pm Link No matter your training ALWAYS bring an escort... There have been situations where you can be left vulnerable...and training will not help you. I have extensive Martial Arts training and there is no way I attend a shoot without an escort. Jun 08 05 01:40 pm Link Posted by Udo R Photography: Posted by Hugh Jorgen ©: You know Hugh, what if someone who is doing martial arts as long as us (I didn't teach until later, but I am a martial artist since 1972) is turning psycho? Hi Udo. Sorry. I know you were asking Hugh, but I couldn't resist chiming in. In this case, when confronted with a psycho, one is now in the realm of the "mental". No amount of training can deter a psycho who is determined to harm you. Psychos are unpredictable in their actions and can catch anyone off guard in a split second. That's because we don't have eyes on the back of our heads. I would say, if one is in that situation and has the opportunity, fight fire with better fire and prove yourself capable of being more psycho than the psycho. In other words, turn the tables around and scare the shit out the psycho. Jun 08 05 01:40 pm Link Posted by LarryB: The cat example is different... a cat is a natural predator that kills its prey with razorsharp claws that is retracted when in a tame situation. Jun 08 05 01:41 pm Link Posted by Leila: As a photographer I always encourage models to bring someone with them if it makes them feel more comfortable/safe. If they have some skills that are useful, so much the better. I might put them to work, or I might ask them to bring a book and sit in the shade out of the way. I do have requirements that this person MUST follow: Jun 08 05 01:43 pm Link Posted by Shyly: Oh, no, Shyly, it wasn't your post. Your post was fine, and I do think this is a valid discussion. Whether or not it's been heard before, there are still new people coming on board. Jun 08 05 01:48 pm Link Posted by Cyndiemyst: You know... I am wondering what exactly you expect to be protected from? Jun 08 05 01:52 pm Link Posted by RFAphoto: I also have to note, no matter how much training you have (and having SOME is always a good idea) you have to have the will to use it. I took one or two self defense courses myself, and I will not hesitate to use it to protect myself or the models whom I am working with. (I consider myself responsible for their safety during the shoot) Jun 08 05 01:56 pm Link Posted by Joe K. Perez: Posted by Udo R Photography: Posted by Hugh Jorgen ©: You know Hugh, what if someone who is doing martial arts as long as us (I didn't teach until later, but I am a martial artist since 1972) is turning psycho? Hi Udo. Sorry. I know you were asking Hugh, but I couldn't resist chiming in. In this case, when confronted with a psycho, one is now in the realm of the "mental". No amount of training can deter a psycho who is determined to harm you. Psychos are unpredictable in their actions and can catch anyone off guard in a split second. That's because we don't have eyes on the back of our heads. I would say, if one is in that situation and has the opportunity, fight fire with better fire and prove yourself capable of being more psycho than the psycho. In other words, turn the tables around and scare the shit out the psycho. EXACTLY! Now... what else if not immediate danger warrants a bodyguard at a photoshoot? Jun 08 05 02:00 pm Link Posted by Udo R Photography: Posted by Cyndiemyst: You know... I am wondering what exactly you expect to be protected from? I honestly don't think that most models are as worried about us doing something unprofessional than they are about their safety while they are intransit to and from the shoot. Jun 08 05 02:08 pm Link Whoa, hold on, time out. I don't know how this turned into talking about psycho-killer-axe-wielding-jock-itch-havin' crazed photographers. That was so far from my point that I am stumped at the direction this is taking. I was talking about victim mentality, why we have it, what we can do about it, and wondering about the way women approach the world in general, and ways to change that for the better. I wasn't talking about evil demon photographers. Argh. Jun 08 05 02:18 pm Link I had a really scarey photographer - VERY nasty... Gals shooting alone in southern LA area of California please contact me separately and i will tell you who it was,,, but i only got away thru charm. B-) Fighting wouldnt have helped. The place was locked and keys in his pockets somewhere. There was no way if i got injured anyone whould have heard me or even found me - premises and layout. Not being harrassed after is one of my concerns if another creep ever came on like that but i keep better radar now and NO exceptions! New models...PLEEEZE gals dont let them just say 'he was fine his pics were great' PLEEEZE DONT ever give a ref like that if in fact you were uncomfortable or ANYthing seemed wrong with the guy. (One model had reffed him despite a lot of grief!! Then cried afterward when i got back to her) Main concern is to get out when things turn bad HOWEVER just checking the guys MORE should stop u getting into what i got. And being clear about your professionalism of course - will turn off these dangerous weirdos if u are NOT too friendly. Making an excuse to leave when u realise theres a problem can work, when u are alone - rather than fighting... and any way im naked !! Im hanging upside down up on a plinth! He came closer and closer and STOOD on my hair! I wont go into the rest BUT U aren't safe - if the guy seems nice has good standard of work and a few references BUT VERY dif standards of behaviour, is unprofessional on the nitty gritty or is partially mentally derranged! ps I had no clothes, shoes, car keys, money ...if i just ''got out'' like that - how would beating him up and running help! Don't get me wrong I'd like it to know how and HOPE i couls inflict it if no other course of action - Just getting all your stuff together and leaving the building ok is what i wanted tho - so I think its charm Ladies and Gents b-> TALK your way out. HEY still, feel free to tell me how getting out of there with Kill Bill would have worked!! Jun 08 05 02:20 pm Link Posted by Udo R Photography: LMAO. Udo...I like ya man. If I ever graduate to being a movie director, you're automatically one of my script writers. I believe that the real problem and constant fear is being fueled by the media's sensationalist reporting of the dangers around us... Like the forums, Movie script writers are doing the same ole material with different twists and more special effects. With the advent of the Internet, news agencies were forced to start exposing more and more of the bad stuff in order to maintain their ratings. What was there before, which most of us never knew, is now in our faces. "New studies shows that 1 in 5 people have a mental disorder... be careful, one of your neighbors maybe a potential serial killer! More about this...tomorrow at the 5 o'clock News" Sure fire way to kill that comfy neighborhood feeling. One day, instead of a neighbor asking for a cup of sugar, they might ask for a cup of bullets. No doubt in some circles, neighborhood students asking to borrow a cup of date rape drugs. Sheesh. We are better controlable if we are afraid. Lol. Now, you're being a conspiracist, because there's no Government or Media gain in being able to control the Photographer/Modeling industry. I can't see any. Except, to ensure the Senator's niece gets to be Playboy Playmate of the month in Hugh's next issue. *grin* Jun 08 05 02:22 pm Link Posted by Leila: Leila, I'm sorry, I missed your post at first in the flurry of responses. This is the sort of feedback on the "why" of things that I was interested in. Thank you for taking the time. Your reasoning and approach make perfect sense to me! Jun 08 05 02:26 pm Link |