Stephen de las Heras wrote:
Even for clothed portraits it could be unfortunate to discover later that the model was underage, as it would probably invalidate the model release.

Oh my!

D. Brian Nelson wrote:
I always ask to see ID and I photograph the ID right next to the face.  Don't even need a paper copy if it's on film (or pixels or whatever).

-Don

exactly what I do. I go so far as to get a shot showing the state stamp hologram if I can. I may even start going so far as to get a small hand held black light wand, fake IDs reflect differently under black light than authentic ones. Some stores use them for that as well as telling counterfiet money from real.

D. Brian Nelson wrote:
I always ask to see ID and I photograph the ID right next to the face.  Don't even need a paper copy if it's on film (or pixels or whatever).

-Don

Ditto, photo of them holding it next to their face while holding the signed model release in the other hand.

Glamour Boulevard wrote:
I may even start going so far as to get a small hand held black light wand, fake IDs reflect differently under black light than authentic ones.

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you
--unknown

Stephen de las Heras wrote:
If you are a photographer doing a solo shoot with a young model, does it make sense to ask them for ID first?

Only if you're not an idiot.

I don't mind when i'm asked for ID first. In fact, I'm a little disturbed by photographers that don't ask for it.  I often tell them after the shoot that I'm really 12.

D. Brian Nelson wrote:
I always ask to see ID and I photograph the ID right next to the face.  Don't even need a paper copy if it's on film (or pixels or whatever).

-Don

I do the same thing. So easy it almost isn't fair.

I had a photographer acquaintance who wanted to use my studio. One of my requirements was that he card the model and copy it (either xerox or photo). He was intimidated and didn't want to ask for ID. I told him it was non-negotiable. He couldn't get past his shyness. I didn't let him use my studio.

Craig Thomson wrote:

Ditto, photo of them holding it next to their face while holding the signed model release in the other hand.

Yep - a solid plan.  I have real difficulty telling age at this point - must be something in the food chain causing young women to physically mature sooner than before.

Stephen de las Heras wrote:
If you are a photographer doing a solo shoot with a young model, does it make sense to ask them for ID first?

I get a copy of their ID for anything that even hints at sexy or nude.  If they look like they could possibly be underage I would get a copy of their ID regardless of the content.  If you have them sign a release so you can use the pictures, they better be old enough for the contract to be bindig.

-Dave

Moraxian wrote:
...or foreign government agency that shows a picture of the model as well as their date of birth and another identifying characteristic, such as the drivers license number, passport number, etc..

A word of caution here. The recently revamped rules on 2256/7 that appear in 28 CFR Part 71 deal specifically with FOREIGN ID for the purposes of 2256/7. One form of ID MUST BE a US issued picture ID.

Those rules, for 2256/7 purposes, require US ID and only US ID unless both the producer and the talent are located OUTSIDE the US.

Generally, if you could comply with the I-9 form requirements [employer's verification of a job applicant's right to work in the United States] you are good to go. If you can't then the talent is NOT authorised to be working inside the US in the first place. Having foreign ID - only - in your records would be a 2257 recordkeeping violation as things now stand.

There are lists of forms/types of ID acceptable for I-9 purposes here (see the I-9 form itself).

http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/i-9.htm

Studio36

Moraxian wrote:
...or foreign government agency that shows a picture of the model as well as their date of birth and another identifying characteristic, such as the drivers license number, passport number, etc..

studio36uk wrote:
A word of caution here. The recently revamped rules on 2256/7 that appear in 28 CFR Part 71 deal specifically with FOREIGN ID for the purposes of 2256/7. One form of ID MUST BE a US issued picture ID.

Those rules, for 2256/7 purposes, require US ID and only US ID unless both the producer and the talent are located OUTSIDE the US.

Generally, if you could comply with the I-9 form requirements [employer's verification of a job applicant's right to work in the United States] you are good to go. If you can't then the talent is NOT authorised to be working inside the US in the first place. Having foreign ID - only - in your records would be a 2257 recordkeeping violation as things now stand.

There are lists of forms/types of ID acceptable for I-9 purposes here (see the I-9 form itself).

http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/i-9.htm

Studio36

True, but a foreign passport is valid for terms of identification and proof of age.

The other picture ID for foreign nationals is to show that it is legal for the person to work in the USA.  I don't have that issue with the models I have worked with since the new laws went into effect (back in June) since all of them are US citizens.

D. Brian Nelson wrote:
I also shoot in Europe.... but I am not going to limit myself to photographing models who have passports or U.S. IDs when working in Germany, for example.  That's plain silly.

-Don

You don't have to as long as you, the actual physical production location and the model are all outside the US at the time.

That seems to be quite OK under the rules even though you are factually and ordinarily a US based producer.

The ONLY issue I have not seen clarified, at least to my satisfaction, is whether or not you might need foreign language [any other than English language e.g. UK or Canadian] documentation [not limited to ID but also such as model releases] to also have an "official" translation to English so the feds could read it in English should they ever want to look at it. That's been discussed around the adult business community but the regulations in 28 CFR don't address the question.

Studio36

Moraxian wrote:
True, but a foreign passport is valid for terms of identification and proof of age.

The other picture ID for foreign nationals is to show that it is legal for the person to work in the USA.  I don't have that issue with the models I have worked with since the new laws went into effect (back in June) since all of them are US citizens.

Correct as long as [any] ONE of the documents of record is apparently genuine, is a photo ID with the other required information [name and DoB,] and otherwise acceptable for the purpose, and is issued by the US or a state government agency.

If you follow the documentation guide for general employment in the I-9 form you can't go far wrong about how you are checking ID.

Studio36

area291 wrote:
Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you
--unknown

The two major cities I am near have lots of girls with fake IDs because of the really cool clubs and such.I have heard enough from other photographers locally about so many fake IDs so I think it is more smart than paranoid.

AND considering the new 2257 laws make it so that you AND the model can be charged with a felony if the records are not kept correctly, I think as much precaution you can take as possible is a smart thing to do.

theda wrote:
I often tell them after the shoot that I'm really 12.

I hate that!  Especially after the post-shoot coitus.

theda wrote:
I often tell them after the shoot that I'm really 12.

That`s not even funny.
One of the first adult oriented shoots I ever did, which was a for hire shoot I did for an adult site that hired me, we(there was me and some of the people from the site) were doing a shoot with a girl who was 19 and she looked really young which is what the clients wanted. The site was not an explicit site really, but enough to be considered adult oriented.
After the shoot with a dead serious look in her eyes she said something to the effect of" ok guys this has all been done as part of an fbi sting,you are all about to be arrested, I am 1. I had an ID made by them so it would look authentic".

Have you ever seen a simultaneous mass pants pissing before?

Glamour Boulevard wrote:
Have you ever seen a simultaneous mass pants pissing before?

no... water sports is not my kink.

Ian Weintraub wrote:

no... water sports is not my kink.

lol,well it didnt happen but there was dead silence and jaw dropping and raised heart beats and sweaty browse until she smiled. she was black balled after that.

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

lol,well it didnt happen but there was dead silence and jaw dropping and raised heart beats and sweaty browse until she smiled. she was black balled after that.

No doubt!  and therefore, always card!  it's best to be safe and CYA.

Ian Weintraub wrote:

I hate that!  Especially after the post-shoot coitus.

Well, you'll card before oitus from now on!

And, yes, it is funny.

area291 wrote:

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you
--unknown

Exactly.

theda wrote:

Well, you'll card before oitus from now on!

And, yes, it is funny.

C-oy vey-tus!

pmgames wrote:
.........private one on one shoot I also document the session by allowing a video camera to run in the background..........

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

exactly what I do. I go so far as to get a shot showing the state stamp hologram if I can. I may even start going so far as to get a small hand held black light wand, fake IDs reflect differently under black light than authentic ones. Some stores use them for that as well as telling counterfiet money from real.

Come to NYC, I can take you to many places in Times Square that has Fake ID's that look real as hell!  They have the magnetic strip, come in plastic, and even have holograms!!!  Only costs $50.00!!!