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Stood up for a photo shoot once again...
I'm sure this topic doesn't apply strictly for photographers but possibly models as well? But being a photographer, I guess I'm worked up about being stood up by models. I've been involved in photography for over 10 years, and 2 of those years as a professional. Within the past 2 years, I've been stood up at least a half a dozen times and it's really gotten old. The bad models out there are starting to give some of the good ones a bad name. There is no reason that an entire day should be wasted because I've put everything off in hopes of working with someone who doesn't show. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong. I decided to post this forum topic due to being stood up for a 11:00am shoot (it's currently 12:15pm). This shoot had been talked about and planned over the past week between myself and the model involved. Theme, location, date and time had all been established and talked about many times. There was no lack of communication and no confusion on anyone's part. And now, on the day of the shoot, the model is no where to be found and can not be contacted. Unbelievable! I totally understand that things come up and plans chage but all I'm looking for is a little communication. A phone call the night before or the morning of to cancel would be nice. There should be no reason for me to wake up early and prep for a shoot that isn't going to happen. And the topper for this topic, is when a model can't ever be reached again and you never get any explination for being stood up. Too much. Please, share your thoughs and opinions. Thank you! Aaron Downing Jan 14 06 01:20 pm Link Also... I hate to put it on an entire age group, because it just wouldn't be true. However, being stood up does seem to be a real problem with younger models. Jan 14 06 01:27 pm Link I had 3 model interviews today, only one showed up. Just part of the biz. All I can say is don't let it stress you. Jan 14 06 01:30 pm Link I say if they dont cancel before 48 hours of the shoot they should be charged a fee. I mean you've done all this work before hand securing a location, making phone calls, etc. and a model doesn't hold up their end of the deal because they're lazy. You can make exceptions if it's a real emergency but you should be paid your time if you're not recieving a service from the model as payment. Then the fee can be even split to the MUA and designer because Im sure they're mad about the model missing the shoot too. If photographers are suppose to be the team leaders when it comes to test shoots they at least deserve that. At the least it'll make models think twice about just not showing up the day of the shoot. It works better as prevention. But then again what I think and do isn't for everyone, I'm really a no bullshit say-it-like-it-is type of guy Jan 14 06 01:31 pm Link Angelo Lorenzo wrote: This is correct. I'm now charging a small returnable fee. Maybe models won't want Jan 14 06 01:39 pm Link Thank you guys for the idea, I really like the 48 hour rule. Someone should be considerate enough to cancel 48 hours ahead of time, which could give you enough time to make alternate plans. If they're not considerate enough to give you those 48 hours, then I see nothing wrong with a small penalty fee. Such as $25.00 like you said. It's not so much the dollar amount, it's more the idea that the model has already invested a little something. Wonderful ideas guys, thanks! Jan 14 06 01:43 pm Link A model who takes her modeling "Career" seriously would keep the appt she made with you. Sometimes things do happen but a model who is serious will call and explain why she will be late, or reschedule well ahead of time. There are GWC photogs but also you have to consider there is a GWC for the model variety also (GWTSM = girl who thinks she is a model). Just because your on here, a modeling site, never expect Every model you talk to be a serious, professional model. Always check references. Also from your time frame its only been about an hour, she could have hit traffic, running late ect. Give them more time or set the time to be there earlier. Say you want to shoot at 3pm, have her be there for 2:30 or so for paperwork or whatever. An hour late is not really that long when traffic could be involved or running late. Jan 14 06 01:48 pm Link it blows and it never gets any more palatable, my last vegas shoot, 2 models from here, just plain did not bother to show, despite confirmation phone calls , left messages and directions on the day, still no-showed. what can you do about it, always double or triple book. Jan 14 06 01:51 pm Link An hour isn't a few minutes. Almost everybody in America has a cell phone or access to one. Going to be late, call. Can't make it or changed your mind, call. See calling though means you at least have some backbone and respect for other people. Its very easy to say I want to model post some photos and respond to e-mails. When you have to send it a few bucks via paypal or through the mail means I really want to do this and I willing to invest a few bucks to do it. In another thread a model asks about if a photgrapher who contacted her is a sex offender as his name came up through google as one. One site she knew about charges $40.00 for complete access to images, etc. but she's too cheap to spend the money. Jan 14 06 01:56 pm Link Its a sad thing to say but alot of models get turned off by something you said or the way your talking to them or some other variable in your voice, and it creeps them out. The problem with that is ALOT of models dont know how to deal with that when it happens so they dont show up. Most models will think if they dont show up then you wont contact them anymore, which would be correct most of the time. Jan 14 06 01:57 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: most do have cell phones but if the model is doing what i would do then she will call when she can say "Im right around the corner, i am running late". Its also illegal to use cell phones without a hands free device, maybe she dont have one. Jan 14 06 02:02 pm Link You also have to consider some photogs have very little patience with models because they were stood up on another shoot, so imedietly if another model is running late or hit traffic they immedietly think the worst...he got stood up. When your jumping to conclusions, most people think the worst. She could have shown 10 minutes after he posted this also.......because she hit traffic or was running late. Jan 14 06 02:10 pm Link Peter Dattolo wrote: You know what, there is no excuse for not sending a letter saying you will not make it. This is not high school here its business, these little girls need to grow up! Jan 14 06 02:15 pm Link i am too good looking to stand up...i have never had a no show...once a gal was late, but she did call. Jan 14 06 02:19 pm Link This is written so much, I think it is beaten to death. I had a model booked for a paid shoot that was supposed to be on Monday, then she rescheduled it to Wednesday and then 15 minutes before the shoot on Thursday I get a text message asking to re-schedule it again. This has nothing to do with TFP. Obviously it is wrong, but that is the way of the Internet world. I hope it will change, but in the meantime, move on. For every bad experience I have had with a model I can write way more that were good. I need models to make a living so I am not gonna let a few bad applies spoil it for the rest. Jan 14 06 02:19 pm Link fitnessforyoutoo wrote: Yea they should send something if they are gonna cancel but some dont seem to have a reason to bother i would assume because the photog is a scum for whatever reason and will not be working with them anyways. Jan 14 06 02:28 pm Link Being late in general is just unprofessional and rude. It doesn't matter if it's a couple minutes or an hour. If you are running late, a courtesy call would help to smooth things over between the model and photographer. I've got no problem with a model running late, things happen. But if running late, out of respect to the photographer and others involves, the model should call and give you a geneal idea of when they're expected to show. This is the real world and appoitments and schedules are made for a reason. I'll give someone a 15 minute cushion and maybe 30 on a good day but an hour late is just ridiculious, especially without a call or heads up. If applying for a job, you're not going to be late for your interview are you? No, you'll most likely plan to leave and get to the interview early. It doesn't take much effort to wake up 30 minutes early and leave the house a little sooner to account for traffic, accidents, etc.. In this real world situation, if you're late, you're most likely not going to get the job. No matter how important the meeting or appoitment, it's just curtious to show up on time. It's not that difficult. Jan 14 06 02:30 pm Link ACC Photography wrote: My cut off is typically that I like to hear from the model before I start investing time & energy setting up the location -- this typically implies a few hours before the scheduled time for the model to arrive. If I start investing time & energy, I get more upset if/when stood up. Otherwise, hey, it happens, and future sittings with that model may become unlikely. Jan 14 06 02:35 pm Link I once had a model show up a full week early. She got the dates wrong (we checked our e-mails, and it was her mistake). So, I took an hour or so to set things up, she waited, and we had a sitting anyhow. It was fun. Jan 14 06 02:39 pm Link ACC Photography wrote: Let's be a bit realistic before rushing to judgement. For example, I was 10 minutes late for a shoot the other day because I forgot that it sometimes takes 20 minutes of driving around in San Francisco to find parking. And I don't have a cellphone so I couldn't call and explain "I am currently orbiting the studio!" Jan 14 06 02:40 pm Link From my experiences, the majority of models are wonderful and lots of fun to work with. More than not, photo shoots go off without a hitch and all parties involved are pleased with the outcome. Sadly, there are those occasions when a photographer is stood up and models get a bad name. In conclusion, you'll have good and bad models. Luckily, the good out number the bad. Thank you all for the great advise and allowing me to vent, more than anything. Actually, I've learned and will use some extra safeguards when selecting models to work with. Thanks! Aaron Downing Jan 14 06 02:45 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: Talk about promptness. That's actually a great story and it sounds like everything worked out perfect. Jan 14 06 02:50 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: So did you keep her the rest of the week? Jan 14 06 02:58 pm Link Looknsee Photography wrote: That sounds like me....I never have my dates right. Jan 14 06 02:58 pm Link I recently had this happened to me, and I tell you...it hurts. Right now I'm getting ready for Portfolio Night and want to put NEW ideas out there...she called about 40 mins. later talking about she over slept, and can we do it another day. I held a smile, and went thru my schedule but I don't know about anyone else, but when there is something NEW you want to do you are soooo excited. There is an ENERGY that is ZAPPED when things like this happen. Well thru this experience I will have 3 or 4 people to come at the same time and just see who shows up. Jan 16 06 08:27 am Link May all GWTSM's (girl who thinks she is a model) burn for doing no shows. Also those who can tell you constantly "I want to work with you" but cannot pick up a phone ( isn't there a phone on everyone's hip nowadays?) and confirm. Darque (he who needs his soda in the morning to stop venting) Jan 16 06 08:43 am Link In all honesty, I don't care if you e-mail or call me within 5 minutes of the shoot to tell me you can't make it. I'd rather know you're not coming than to be sitting there wasting my time waiting on you to show up. Jan 16 06 08:47 am Link Women's brains are "different" ... What might sound like a 'commitment' to you, to them could be just an 'intention' ... Jan 16 06 08:56 am Link Marcus J. Ranum wrote: As for me, I could not have resisted saying, "The rest of the week? We'll be married 5 years in May!" Jan 16 06 09:07 am Link Louis Braga wrote: Isn't that how men see dating? Jan 16 06 09:09 am Link Monsante Bey wrote: I have been known to email or call a model to make sure nothing adversed happened to her and still get no reply. Jan 16 06 09:10 am Link Man, I live around the corner from Unreliable and down the block from Unmotivated and it seems like everybody in my neighborhood wants to schedule a photoshoot. My appointment book may as well be sand at high tide because it gets wiped away so often, so quickly and WITHOUT much notice. It's a little discouraging when no shows happen due to all of the preparation that goes into a session to set up my studio, prepare lighting, arrange locations, etc. but I realize that most models don't have a clue as to what that entails. I had even considered charging clients a refundable set-up fee (even for TFCD sessions) that they would receive upon showing up. As much as it frustrates me for my own "selfish" reasons, I get even more frustrated for them because I wonder how many "models" with poor work ethics ever attain any bonafide success in the modeling (or for that matter, any other) industry. Some people think that having a certain look is good enough and take for granted that if their poor work ethics close one door then their smile, dimples, breassuses or gracious maximus will open another one just as quickly. Sure, that may happen here in online communities for models and photographers because many of us just want to expand our portfolios and such but in THE REAL WORLD, models are hired on the basis of reliability and professionalism as well as their genetics. Many of these "habitual no-shows" would be blackballed so quickly that they would have no choice but to change their ways...or their profession. Jan 16 06 09:14 am Link I've recently decided to stop flying models to me. Period. SO many bad experiences lately. I even had one where I bought a ticket, got the hotel room/lodging, and at the last minute, he cancelled. Suprise to me about 2 weeks later I see he flew to shoot with another photog. I have a hunch he used the ticket I bought and paid the "change fee". I even got an "apology" email with a link to pics from the "car accident" he was in. Too bad the pics were time stamped 2004. From now on it's locals for me. Jan 16 06 09:49 am Link Darque wrote: That's happened on two occasions where I called the model to see what was going on after the scheduled time. After that, I just decided to let adults act responsible. You get 30 minutes of "fashionably late" time, after that you're a distant memory. I don't even call or write to ask you what happened. Not my job. If you can't be responsible, then I don't want you around me. Jan 16 06 10:44 am Link Dhaniel wrote: Book your flights through Southwest Airlines.. They have an excellent refund policy. Only you can change the ticket, and even if the passenger fails to board the plane they will still give you a refund (credit, not cash) which is ok with me since I will eventually use the credit anyways.. Jan 16 06 03:15 pm Link No shows are definitely a problem with these online, TFP models. After all, they have nothing invested in the shoot and can change their minds with the wind. The problem can be compounded by the inflated egos some girls get. If I could get away with refundable booking fees, I definitely would use them. Girls would be less likely to disappear if it cost them money. My apporach is to try to get models to confirm the shoot a few times beforehand. I always write or call at least a few days the scheduled shoot. If I do not get a reply promptly, I let them know I had to reschedule. Some girls cancel for obviously lame excuses and then try to reschedule. If they cancel more than once, I don't bother rescheduling them. One of the bigger issues I've been dealing with is whether or not to leave a tag on their profile to let others know they've flaked out. I did it with one and she went ballistic on me! Nasty, rude and crude. At least I saw her true colors! Girls can also go ballistic when you refuse to reschedule them. Regardless of how polite you might be, they can be quite nasty. Guess they think life is a one-way street. I say we should unite against rudeness, immaturity, and irresponsibility! LOL. Actually, I guess I'll just have to deal with it like anybody else by being selective, cautious and trying to stick with those I already know and trust. Jan 16 06 03:31 pm Link My favorite myth is that these people who are irresponsible or inconsiderate will not "make it" because people will not put up with it for long. This may be true to a very small extent, but in the real world, models get away with a lot of crap if they're in demand. Since this is about models cancelling or not showing up, I will tell you about one of my experiences. This girl had her schedule/calendar online, and she had put her session with me on it. One day about a week or so before our scheduled shoot, I went and looked at her calendar, and she had removed our session. I emailed her to confirm that we were still shooting, and she told me we were. I made a lot of arrangements, including getting special permission to shoot somewhere. She never showed or contacted me in any way. I simply wasn't worth her time. She has moved, and her career seems to be taking off, so she obviously didn't need anything from me to help her get things going. I knew that all along, but I still would have really appreciated a little courtesy. This is a business where it's all about "what you can do for me". Luckily, I didn't need her either, so it's all good. Jan 16 06 04:03 pm Link Sorry, but I'm so freakin tired of hearing about this topic. People bring it up at LEAST once a week. Jan 16 06 05:54 pm Link I am sure that just about everything in this post before has been said before, more or less. Yes, girls will not show for all sorts of reasons -- have a date that day, had a better offer, newbie model got nervous, etc. Sometimes the reasons are even valid. I agree that a little courtesy would be nice, though. I had one cancel twice, the second time at the very last minute. I replied I'd shoot her again but she'd wouldn't get a prime time slot and might have to share it with someone else. I also mentioned that reliability is a valued attribute to some of the photographers with whom I mght have gotten her booked. She went nuts, sending nasty, rude emails and told me that I am not the only photographer out there, other guys would love to work with her, blah, blah, blah. That seemed to sum up her attitude. Of course, I agreed that there were many other photographers, many of whom are more talented than I, and that she was free to waste their time, too. Oddly, I think she has yet to actually do a shoot. Jan 16 06 06:01 pm Link and you wonder why agency girls are preferred (forget the level of talent/looks/etc). this is one of the biggest reasons why. Jan 16 06 06:07 pm Link |
