Flame Productions wrote:
I recently had this happened to me, and I tell you...it hurts. Right now I'm getting ready for Portfolio Night and want to put NEW ideas out there...she called about 40 mins. later talking about she over slept, and can we do it another day. I held a smile, and went thru my schedule but I don't know about anyone else, but when there is something NEW you want to do you are soooo excited. There is an ENERGY that is ZAPPED when things like this happen.

Well thru this experience I will have 3 or 4 people to come at the same time and just see who shows up.

This is what happens when models flake.  We put so much energy into presenting
ourselves and contacting them that when they pull this bull it drains our
creative energy.  Everyone who has any of this happen needs to charge some
sort of refundable fee.  Sure lots of models will complain and not send it in but
those that do will show up or lose their fee.  people who are serious won't mind
sending a few dollars to secure a appointment and those that won't weren't all
that intrested in the first place.

John Jebbia wrote:
Just a guess, but I would bet that many photographers on here have regular jobs. So when a model flakes on your day off that means that you have to wait till your next day off to set up another shoot. I can see how that can get frustrating.

Oh yeah, it is annoying. 

I had three models flake out on *paid* shoots just before the holidays.  You would think that with all the shopping and gifts that people need they'd be showing up to do the shoots, but nope... three flaked, no calls, no nothing.  I actually got in touch with one of the ladies a few days ago and she asked if she could call back in 10 minutes.... she still hasn't called...

Ah well.  They don't want the work, I can spend the money on models who show up like Layla Mercedes (89385), Marci (20795), Minxen (56307) and Candy (64916) and many more!

Josie Nutter wrote:
I think there tend to be more flakes on the model side of things because it's less of an investment for most of them.  They don't have to collect the equipment, test setups, find models, scout for locations, etc.  (Or at least most don't.)

I'm fully in support of people using word of mouth to let others know who's likely to flake on them so they don't waste their time, but... that doesn't mean it needs to turn into a childish online flamewar (not that I'm saying this thread is).

That's why I always recommend:
http://www.theibl.com

WOW what a mature insightfull post! Kudos! Most models get offended (the ones that dont show I assume)

Peter Dattolo wrote:
Its a sad thing to say but alot of models get turned off by something you said or the way your talking to them or some other variable in your voice, and it creeps them out.
The problem with that is ALOT of models dont know how to deal with that when it happens so they dont show up. Most models will think if they dont show up then you wont contact them anymore, which would be correct most of the time.

Very true and well said. Flaking and no-showing is a safety net for those that become concerned but can't express it. It is safest to assume that a no-show means that the model no longer wants to work with you, even if they suggest otherwise later.

Josie Nutter wrote:
That's why I always recommend:
http://www.theibl.com

I was going to start a site like that then reality  and my thing for takin the high road hit. Sites like that are magnets for vindictive models and photographers and others in the industry.

Dave S wrote:
I also mentioned that reliability is a valued attribute to some of the photographers with whom I mght have gotten her booked.

Believe me, I got blasted for doing this also!

Tony Lawrence wrote:

This is what happens when models flake.  We put so much energy into presenting
ourselves and contacting them that when they pull this bull it drains our
creative energy.  Everyone who has any of this happen needs to charge some
sort of refundable fee.  Sure lots of models will complain and not send it in but
those that do will show up or lose their fee.  people who are serious won't mind
sending a few dollars to secure a appointment and those that won't weren't all
that intrested in the first place.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!

I'm with you Tony, if these girls are not willing to pony up a few duckets to secure a position even on a Test Shoot then I really dont think they have the right to expect a photog to be there for them.

My father always told me, dont get involved with someone in a business arrangement unless they have something to lose as well.

A little good faith returnable deposit is certainly not unreasonable.

I think first and foremost, photogs that use the net have to realize that a good portion of the models on the internet like the juice of the chase.

A young mind will almost always completly avoid without contact rather than face the music and cancel like an adult. I know some adults though who are just as bad.

Stop and think for a moment,,,,,,,,How many guy models are no shows, How many photogs are no shows for a model. and how many ladies over 25 are no shows.
There's the demographic part.

Now here is the emotion part:
They get really jazzed up when they see a photog is interested in them and it makes them feel special.

It is only after they have gone through the communication process that they suddenly realize some of the things that were not apparent to them at the onset of the chase.

As a woman, these ladies minds work in a different manner than ours.
A woman will start considering all of the emotional and safety aspects only after the glitz of the chase for a photog has worn off.

They are considering things like, Will I do ok at the shoot, and if I dont, will I be labled as a dipshit on MM.
Who is this photog?,,can I really trust him?,, I know I checked him out and everything is good, but my Mom and freinds say Dont Go. What Should I Do?

Common courtesy is not a endless resource with the youth today, and praise should be given to the ones who were fortunate enough to have been tought that quality by their parents.

This theory certainly does not apply to all models, but I think it's a valid consideration.

The only thing about charging a security deposit is, unless all photogs adopt that policy then we will still have threads like this every two weeks.

Then models will want to charge a retainer, claiming that it's unfair for only photogs to do it, which will create a whole new thread as well.

If you walk through the woods in shorts, dont bitch when you get poison ivy.

Greg Kolack wrote:
I know a lot of these models who flake - or, I prefer to say, are unprofessional - are young. But I recently had an experience with a model who is 35. You would think at that age, some maturity and responsibility would have entered into her life. She was relatively new to modeling, but apparently had lost 85 pounds and was quite proud of it and was really interested in modeling now that she was feeling so good about herself.

I contacted this model (through another modeling site) about a shoot I had in mind in an old abandoned amusement park. It is kind of in the middle of nowhere, and this model lives within a reasonable driving distance. She got back to me that she knew exactly where the place was, and thought it was a great idea. I mentioned technically it was illegal to step on the property, as there are No Trespassing signs posted. She mentioned that she likes to live dangerously, and that was even more reason for her to do it. A couple of days later she emailed me, saying she had gone out there on her own and spent 2 hours scouting it out, and had ideas for shots. She also mentioned that she felt we should only do artistic nudes, and they would be beautiful in this location. She seemed to have even more enthusiasm than I did for the project. We discussed that her husband would come along as an escort, which was reasonable to me, since she didn't know me and would be far from any other people. She guaranteed he was very supportive of her modeling, and would completely stay out of our way. Everything seemed set for a great shooting experience. We had emailed several times, and talked on the phone. 2 days before the shoot she confirmed. I had even driven out there a few days ago to scout it out one more time. It is about a 50 minute drive for me, but worth it for the shots we were going to get.

Within the 36 hours prior to the shoot, I left her 3 messages, and emailed her 3 times. No reply. Knowing it was probably a worthless trip, I drove out there  anyway just to give her the benefit of the doubt. Of course, she didn't show. She claims in her portfolio her goal is to be in Playboy - not a chance if she keeps this up.

So. I am asking models - do you have any idea what goes on in a model's head to  not show up without any notice? This model knew it was at least an hour drive for me - what kind of mind would allow someone to drive 50 miles knowing they didn't plan to show up? Of course, probably any model who will respond to this is professional and wouldn't be a no show, but I'm curious if it is something we photographers do or don't do that brings this on. In my heart, I know there are good models out there, and I have worked with them, but these experiences are really starting to make me think of models as a whole as unprofessional flakes. Again, I know this isn't true, and it aggravates me when I am pooled into a sleazy GWC category that some models use for all photographers, but it is so perplexing why this model seemed so professional then just evaporated. I won't even get into the number of models I have set up pre-shoot meetings with who havn't shown up.

So models - please help us understand if you can. I am pretty much beyond getting angry about it - I'm just confused as hell.

Thanks for any enlightenment.

Greg Kolack

Wow, that sucks...
See this is what I mean.  Your're charged up with good ideals.  You imagine
some cool shots and nothing... However it really has very little to do with you.
I read another thread where someone said sometimes when a model talks to
the photographer she changes her mind about shooting.  Maybe he sounded
creepy.  Then take a friend or have the backbone to call and say you aren't
shooting.  E-mail if you can't get to a phone, hell send smoke signals if you have
to.  I remember a model I shot a while back she drove over six hours to shoot
with me.  Contrast that to models who won't drive twenty minutes to a shoot.
In your case a model seems excited and wants to shoot.  She agrees to
everything and her husband is even coming.  So at the last minute she has a
change of heart.  Both her and her husbands fingers were broken so neither
could call.  This crap is just bad!

ACC Photography wrote:
I'm sure this topic doesn't apply strictly for photographers but possibly models as well? But being a photographer, I guess I'm worked up about being stood up by models.

I've been involved in photography for over 10 years, and 2 of those years as a professional. Within the past 2  years,  I've been stood up at least a half a dozen times and it's really gotten old. The bad models out there are starting to give some of the good ones a bad name. There is no reason that an entire day should be wasted because I've put everything off in hopes of working with someone who doesn't show. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

I decided to post this forum topic due to being stood up for a 11:00am shoot (it's currently 12:15pm). This shoot had been talked about and planned over the past week between myself and the model involved. Theme, location, date and time had all been established and talked about many times. There was no lack of communication and no confusion on anyone's part. And now, on the day of the shoot, the model is no where to be found and can not be contacted. Unbelievable!

I totally understand that things come up and plans chage but all I'm looking for is a little communication. A phone call the night before or the morning of to cancel would be nice. There should be no reason for me to wake up early and prep for a shoot that isn't going to happen. And the topper for this topic, is when a model can't ever be reached again and you never get any explination for being stood up. Too much.

Please, share your thoughs and opinions. Thank you!

Aaron Downing

You should over book like the doctors do. They have no shows all the time, and never know it. Their office staff just sends the no shows a bill, and laugh about the easy money.

Just set up two shoots for the same time, and I will bet both models will show up.