bobby sargent wrote:
I had to stop the shoot 2 1/2 hours early.  Had to get away.  Maybe something new will come to me tonight and I can start to enjoy this shoot.  Will see and doubt it will happen.  So yea I FEEL YOUR PAIN. bs

Try putting a mask or hood on her... perhaps she won't have as much of a problem if she is not so easily identified.

studio36uk wrote:
How to handle it? Three words:

Pack... and... Go

Studio36

Ditto.

studio36uk wrote:
How to handle it? Three words:

Pack... and... Go

Studio36

I wish I could have. I wanted to so badly. However, wouldn't that then make ME look like a diva or an enfant terrible? I was really dissappointed in this photographer letting this girl push him around like that. I wasn't the only one being bullied. This was essentially a nice guy. He was doing TFP for these girls, soley for their benefit, paying for food and drinks and everything AND letting them call the shots, I guess for the experience. That's why I did it. I've never had an experience like that. I guess I should be firmer in future, but I don't want the rep of being hard to deal with and walking off a shoot. Of the situation arises again, do I have choice words with the photographer before I do so? The kicker is that this guy had NO dress sense whatsoever and as such didn't put much of a premium on it I'm afraid.

Star wrote:
They are called the Russian bitches
Star

Oh, do you know of whom I speak? I don't want to name names because that's tacky but if we're thinking of the same girl (and her sister, whom I have not had the pleasure of meeting) and there's indeed a reputation that proceeds her Then how in the samhill would she (or her sister) get any repeat engagements? She's niether easy to work with nor is she exeedingly fair of face or figure. She just didn't get that I was trying to show her to advantage and assumed that she knew best.

Inferi wrote:
Sorry to hear the shoot was so bad.  Did the models know what they were supposed to wear ahead of time?

Well that's a sticky bit. I gave her an idea but only indirectly. I gave my ideas to the PHOTOGRAPHER who mangled it and then got the girl ticked. I didn't end up really using ANY of my initial ideas.

I didn't know exactly what I wanted anyone to wear because I didn't have a shooting schedule and thus didn't know who or what I was in for. I had to bring whatever I could and just wing it, which I DON'T want to have to do again but probably will anyways.

I know that this sounds harsh but I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY WANT. They are models, their job is to show up on time with a clean face and reasonably clean hair and to put on whatever the feck the photographer/stylist says and to sit still while the makeup that I select is applied then to pose as the photographer sees fit. That is their JOB and if they don't do it then I can't do mine.

Makes me wanna Holler, Throw up both my hands. Sing it brother Marvin!!

Miss Anthropy wrote:
I wish I could have. I wanted to so badly. However, wouldn't that then make ME look like a diva or an enfant terrible?

Better a diva than a doormat

I usually look at it as a case of "Well, I've walked off better jobs than THIS!"

Could be that the photographer, nice guy that he may have been, was just looking / waiting for an excuse, too, to cut and run but didn't want to be first. You should have taken HIM downstairs for a smoke and a stiff drink and talked it over in private. Surely couldn't have been much fun for him in the circumstances either... but he couldn't read your mind.

Studio36

Miss Anthropy wrote:

Well that's a sticky bit. I gave her an idea but only indirectly. I gave my ideas to the PHOTOGRAPHER who mangled it and then got the girl ticked. I didn't end up really using ANY of my initial ideas.

I didn't know exactly what I wanted anyone to wear because I didn't have a shooting schedule and thus didn't know who or what I was in for. I had to bring whatever I could and just wing it, which I DON'T want to have to do again but probably will anyways.

I know that this sounds harsh but I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY WANT. They are models, their job is to show up on time with a clean face and reasonably clean hair and to put on whatever the feck the photographer/stylist says and to sit still while the makeup that I select is applied then to pose as the photographer sees fit. That is their JOB and if they don't do it then I can't do mine.

Makes me wanna Holler, Throw up both my hands. Sing it brother Marvin!!

If the model is getting paid for the shoot, then I agree.  They need to do what they were asked to do, or should know ahead of time what they are getting into when they agree to a shoot.  If it was a TFP or colaborative shoot between everyone, then I don't agree at all.

Miss Anthropy wrote:
Well that's a sticky bit. I gave her an idea but only indirectly. I gave my ideas to the PHOTOGRAPHER who mangled it and then got the girl ticked. I didn't end up really using ANY of my initial ideas.

I didn't know exactly what I wanted anyone to wear because I didn't have a shooting schedule and thus didn't know who or what I was in for. I had to bring whatever I could and just wing it, which I DON'T want to have to do again but probably will anyways.

I know that this sounds harsh but I DON'T CARE WHAT THEY WANT. They are models, their job is to show up on time with a clean face and reasonably clean hair and to put on whatever the feck the photographer/stylist says and to sit still while the makeup that I select is applied then to pose as the photographer sees fit. That is their JOB and if they don't do it then I can't do mine.

Makes me wanna Holler, Throw up both my hands. Sing it brother Marvin!!

If it is the same girl (and her sister), I might even know who she is.

Miss Anthropy wrote:

I wish I could have. I wanted to so badly. However, wouldn't that then make ME look like a diva or an enfant terrible? I was really dissappointed in this photographer letting this girl push him around like that. I wasn't the only one being bullied. This was essentially a nice guy. He was doing TFP for these girls, soley for their benefit, paying for food and drinks and everything AND letting them call the shots, I guess for the experience. That's why I did it. I've never had an experience like that. I guess I should be firmer in future, but I don't want the rep of being hard to deal with and walking off a shoot. Of the situation arises again, do I have choice words with the photographer before I do so? The kicker is that this guy had NO dress sense whatsoever and as such didn't put much of a premium on it I'm afraid.

Wooo lawd....

I wish a muthafucka would come to one of my shoots trying to run shit. Ya'll would be talking about it for months!!! I don't play that mess, the Cleveland in me would come out faster than a fat chick suggesting goinfg to Dennys after church.

Not that i'd put my hands on them, but they'd be put in check, with the option of either doing it right, or going home.

Inferi wrote:
If the model is getting paid for the shoot, then I agree.  They need to do what they were asked to do, or should know ahead of time what they are getting into when they agree to a shoot.  If it was a TFP or colaborative shoot between everyone, then I don't agree at all.

So, let me get this straight, this girl can boss me around simply because she's not getting paid? Not cool! I wasn't getting paid either so I don't see how I should be bossed around especially with someone without the authority to boss people around. I've never gotten the diva attitude off of ANY other model and I've only done TFP. Noone has refused wardrobe before. And as for collaboration, she wasn't bringing any ideas to the table, she didn't bring ANY wardrobe, she wasn't giving anything, only vetoing.

Miss Anthropy wrote:

So, let me get this straight, this girl can boss me around simply because she's not getting paid? Not cool! I wasn't getting paid either so I don't see how I should be bossed around especially with someone without the authority to boss people around. I've never gotten the diva attitude off of ANY other model and I've only done TFP. Noone has refused wardrobe before. And as for collaboration, she wasn't bringing any ideas to the table, she didn't bring ANY wardrobe, she wasn't giving anything, only vetoing.

No one has the right to be disrespectful or act like a "diva."  If the model wasn't bringing any ideas to the shoot then I wouldn't call it a collaboration.  I was saying that in a collaborative shoot, if any party involved isn't comfortable with something, they shouldn't do it.  If that was the case then the model should have politely declined and walked away, especially since she was not prepared for an alternative.  That, however, does not sound like the case.  I'm sorry you had to deal with such drama.

Inferi wrote:
No one has the right to be disrespectful or act like a "diva."  If the model wasn't bringing any ideas to the shoot then I wouldn't call it a collaboration.  I was saying that in a collaborative shoot, if any party involved isn't comfortable with something, they shouldn't do it.  If that was the case then the model should have politely declined and walked away, especially since she was not prepared for an alternative.  That, however, does not sound like the case.  I'm sorry you had to deal with such drama.

Thank you-

And it's not as if I was trying to put ANYONE in anything gross . She wouldn't wear a swimsuit because she wasn't getting paid. She'd look at things on the effing hanger and say that won't look good, yada yada yada. If I had a buck for everytime I heard "I know what looks best" I could buy a pack of smokes and a sixpack. Basically she wouldn't wear ANYTHING she didn't want to because she wasn't getting paid. NOONE was getting paid here. Definately diva behaviour. It's not like anything I had really fit her anyway. I really almost think that she was lying about her measurements because if those were her TRUE measurements, she SHOULD have been able to fit into the size twelve stuff I had for her. I was trying to stretch my legs and show some love for the big girls because they are so often overlooked but I was getting no gratitude whatever from this bloated barbie. The odd thing is that she wasn't being outright NASTY. When she left, she gave me a hug and was very sweet. She's just like that I guess and I shudder to think of what she me might get if she  pulls this stuff on someone less sweet and easygoing than me!

Y'all should SEE the responses that I was getting from the fashion only forum. It was basically the same responses I was getting here but MUCH more so! One guy even thought I was lying because it read like a comedy of errors. Damn! how do you walk that fine line between not being an a**hole and not getting walked on?

Miss Anthropy wrote:
Shortly after that one of her friends went to the car and shortly after THAT the models "mom" had been in a car accident. Cute!!

Has anyone else had a situation like this. How should I handle it in future?

Well I had a model that faked her own death by saying she flipped her car over an overpass which smashed her car completely and she was in critical care. She then led me to believe was my fault(because she was on her way here, supposedly) all to keep the money I sent her for travel. She even updated her profile as recently as yesterday here....

Jack North wrote:

If it is the same girl (and her sister), I might even know who she is.

I feel so out of the loop!!  I wanna know!!  LOL

GunnCat wrote:

Well I had a model that faked her own death by saying she flipped her car over an overpass which smashed her car completely and she was in critical care. She then led me to believe was my fault(because she was on her way here, supposedly) all to keep the money I sent her for travel. She even updated her profile as recently as yesterday here....

HAHAHA!!!

Wooo lawd, this place is chock full of entertainment.

Monsante Bey wrote:

Wooo lawd....

I wish a muthafucka would come to one of my shoots trying to run shit. Ya'll would be talking about it for months!!! I don't play that mess, the Cleveland in me would come out faster than a fat chick suggesting goinfg to Dennys after church.

Not that i'd put my hands on them, but they'd be put in check, with the option of either doing it right, or going home.

Thats funny!

Miss Anthropy wrote:
I know I'm going to get flamed here but I really have to get this off my chest.
Had a TFP shoot yesterday at a hotel with a girl that I flat refuse to work with again.

My first glimpse of her in all her fakenbaked, freshly peroxided splendour ( I had SPECIFICALLY asked her NOT to do this WEEKS before the shoot) was of talking on her pink cell phone in nonstop highspeed russian. Regardless of what the MUA wanted, she insisted upon applying false eyelashes which was ok as it turns out, which was good I guess because she refused to shoot without them. She came wearing a black bra which she would not remove. She complained that the shoes I had were too small but had brought NO wardrobe, even shoes of her own. I actually decorated a set to go with one of the outfits that I selected for her, A powder blue babydoll nighty, which didn't look TOO bad with the ever-present bra on underneath. I am not a hairstylist by any stretch of the imagination but still did a bang-up job on her hair. Well, as much as I could considering that she wouldn't actually let me FINISH the hairdo by putting it in pigtails. She then wasted my wardrobe, set and styling by wallering around on the floor in a highly unladylike fashion instead of posing in a more innocent manner. The irony of this was that she was dead set against doing anything provocative, not because she was against it morally, but because she wasn't getting PAID. Also ironic was the fact that if she had posed approrpriately for the costume you wouldn't have been able to see her girlbits. Essentially, there was no persuading her that she didn't know EVERYTHING. True, she's 18 but I've worked with 15 year olds who are more professional, poised and just generally easier to deal with. After I had my styling for one look dismissed as "k-mart" I just said " I need a cigarette" I bummed a light off a guy in the lobby who had a case of Hieneken. He cracked it open and actually GAVE ME one and two mints. Models take note. It is a BAD sign if your stylist has to pop away for a drink because you're being a brat. I was holding out big hopes for the model that was scheduled to shoot with her but she didn't show up, no calls, no email, Nada. Calls to her showed a disconnected number

Later in the day, Another girl showed up with two friends in tow and refused to wear the wardrobe I selected for her, calling it "Scandalous". Shortly after that one of her friends went to the car and shortly after THAT the models "mom" had been in a car accident. Cute!!

Diva #1 spotted this for what it was. Or at least suspected. Out of four scheduled models, I got ONE that was worth the trouble. I think that I actually got one shot that will go in my physical book so that's good at least.

I wanted to bail in the worst way but I figured that between two primadonnas and one no-show we had filled the Diva quota for the day. Besides, I was stuck at this hotel because I had too much stuff to take with me on the bus. Also, I'm one of those archaic "my word is my bond" dinosaurs and I said I'd do the shoot so I did the damn shoot. I'm also new and didn't want a diva rep, but I'm also very set in what kind of career I want and mindful of the image that I put forth in the work that is seen by the public. You can't get blood from a stone but I thought that I could at least get a couple of decent fashion shots for my book. I didn't want to come off as a bitch, but, I'm afraid that something far worse has happened and now I'm pinned as a pushover.

Has anyone else had a situation like this. How should I handle it in future?

Every client, photographer, designer, runway producer, or angel I have EVER worked with would have shown them the door and told them NOT to let it hit them in the butt on the way out. I have seen MUAS/Stylist/Wardrobe try to work with a "green" model or two, that thought "being a pain in the butt" would impress or make them appear "seasoned"...and had MUAS/Stylists walk away from the chair, if not lit into them when they had passed their tolerance level.

Paid or not, green or seasoned, headliner or mall hobbyist...if they agree to the terms of the job...they should be professional and "suck it up" and produce what was discussed and agreed upon. ANYTHING less...show them the door.

Michael_SC wrote:
So stop doing TFP and those probs should go away, and if they dont, you still get paid for the frustration....

Easy for you to say. I don't have much of a book put together and while there is no lack of photographers that would jump at a chance to use stylist, either because they have no dress sense of thier own or because they don't want to be bothered, everyone wants something for nothing. Some of you may or may not remember the disaster that occured when I asked how long I should do TFP shoots to build my book or how many pictures was enough before I got paid. Networking is NOT my strong suit and I'm even worse at saying ok now pay me and even if I could I have no idea what a decent rate would be and if someone would even pay me for it. 

Naomi Wasiatycz wrote:
I'll side with you if she knew what she was up to... what kind of shots are going to be done are always discussed beforehand, no? But I have to side with the girls on some note too... sometimes you gotta be a bitch in order not to let a greasy photographer get the best of you. It's rough sometimes, cause they put pressure on you or get annoyed. Was she told that her breasts would be exposed? If not, I have to side with her on keeping her bra on. It is a TFP shoot, she ISN'T getting paid, why should she expose something she doesnt want to solely for the photographer's sake?

Well, the photog wasn't getting any benefit out of it, the thng wasn't all that sheer and the pictures would have been more for MY benefit than his. I should clarify to say that the PHOTOGRAPHER was staggeringly inexperienced with dealing with models. He wasn't gross in any way but I got the feeling that this girl had assumed that he would be. Not the case at all. He was letting everyone else call all the shots. If anything the man was too passive. I even said " I don't want to tell you your business here but don't let these girls push you around. This girl was posing in a very hoochymama way, completely of her own volition and I was embarrassed to see her doing it. I would have had no problem with her wearing a bra either, had it been FLESH coloured or even WHITE. She's a flake who by her own admission "rolls out of bed" bringing NO wardrobe, not even a flesh coloured bra or even shoes that fit and somehow that gives her the right to ruin MY wardrobe concept?? The nipples could have been photoshopped out anyway. Also she wasn't particularly modest, because she got partially undressed ( bra and panties) with the photographer  in the room. It was all a power trip thing..." I am a "professional model" and I am above you rank amatuers". I don't like to give models any idea in advance or any option in the wardrobe that I select. This is partly because I only have vague ideas until I actually see the person. Partly because I don't want someone else insulting MY creativity.  I'll relax on the choice bit if the person seems like I can trust thier judgement. I am a woman, and have no interest in getting other girls in skimpy clothes for my own lollies or in having hoochycoo pictures in my portfolio and portfolio building is the only reason that I'm doing these GD TFP in the first effing place. I was iffy on this to begin with but decided that because there were going to be so many younger girls there that there should be an older gal or two to run interference should anything get hairy, but instead I get veiwed as the enemy and I just don't get that. My reason for being there is to make them look as good as I possibly can so why can't these dumb broads just trust my judgement?? That's not to say that I think all models are dumb, far from it but if you're stonewalling someone that's there to help YOU then I'd say that's pretty dumb.

GunnCat wrote:
Well I had a model that faked her own death by saying she flipped her car over an overpass which smashed her car completely and she was in critical care. She then led me to believe was my fault(because she was on her way here, supposedly) all to keep the money I sent her for travel. She even updated her profile as recently as yesterday here....

Yeah, I heard all about it. Her girlbits ARE kinda meaty.

GunnCat wrote:
She then led me to believe was my fault(because she was on her way here, supposedly)

You're lucky she didn't sue you for the accident.

Studio36

Doug Lester wrote:
To be honest, it sounds like a total lack of communication on everyone's part. Did anyone actually discuss the nature of the shoot in advance with anyone?

Just to give you an idea of what a clusterf**k this was...it was to be a three day shoot with models scheduled every four hours or so. I didn't have a shooting schedule, I didn't have a location, I DID get tons of emails but nothing of any real substance. Finally I said Look just schedule me with the the trouble maker and whoever else is there that day. That was the real kick in the crotch...I was only there FOR HER and she crapped on everything I was thinking up FOR HER. This is well enough I guess because I REALLY think that she was lying about her measurements; nearly nothing I brought would fit.
Do keep in mind that I'm not set up financially to be able to honor everyone's wardrobe requests, so I like to develop my ideas and then weigh these against the model once I see her. The photog gave me free reign and where he ran into trouble is with misinterpreting my ideas and then feeding that to the model secondhand and getting her all up in arms. Like I said I wasn't trying to get anyone naked or even in partial undress. I guess I'm not a really good communicator, but I need all of my focus to get my ideas together and these girls needed placating, not communicating and I'm sorry but I'm uncomfortable doing that because it just feels disengenuous. The mua and I had good communication and sharing ideas back and forth but the photog's attitude was basically "whatever you want" and this was especially disastrous with Miss Know-It-All being as she's soo damn bossy.

Miss Anthropy wrote:
Has anyone else had a situation like this. How should I handle it in future?

Welcome to the world of internet modeling.  Have a nice day.

Thank god it's not only us photographers who have to put up with this BULL all the time

raveneyes wrote:
Welcome to the world of internet modeling.  Have a nice day.
Thank god it's not only us photographers who have to put up with this BULL all the time

Gee thanks. Tell me what good did that comment serve, except to get some snark out of your system? And for the I don't know how many-th time I'm not trying to do "internet" modeling, or rather style "internet models" mostly because these tend to be naked or in skivvies and anyone over the age of twelve should be able to select and put on a bra and panties without guidance or assistance. I am simply using this to establish my carreer and make contacts with limited success. I also don't think that it's very nice to enjoy the fact that someone else had to put up with BS like that. I'm sorry that YOU have to put up with crap and if you complained, I'D at least be sympathetic. Furthermore, I've never had to put up with this level of BS and drama. Granted my experience is rather limited but still.
My day is just peachy, thanks.

Miss Anthropy wrote:
Gee thanks. Tell me what good did that comment serve, except to get some snark out of your system? And for the I don't know how many-th time I'm not trying to do "internet" modeling, or rather style "internet models" mostly because these tend to be naked or in skivvies and anyone over the age of twelve should be able to select and put on a bra and panties without guidance or assistance. I am simply using this to establish my carreer and make contacts with limited success. I also don't think that it's very nice to enjoy the fact that someone else had to put up with BS like that. I'm sorry that YOU have to put up with crap and if you complained, I'D at least be sympathetic. Furthermore, I've never had to put up with this level of BS and drama. Granted my experience is rather limited but still.
My day is just peachy, thanks.

I'm sorry...I wasn't trying to be snarky...I just find it amusing to finally see someone besides a photographer complain about these issues in these forums.  I do empathize with your plight...really I do.

My apologies.

If you'd like advice on how to avoid the situation in the future can I suggest looking through a few of the photographer related posts on drama queen/diva/flakey models.

P.S. it's really not worth your time or mine to be all grumpy and persnickety about my response to your post.  Next time just take it as the good natured smiley faced humorous response it is, rather than jumping down my throat about it.

raveneyes wrote:
P.S. it's really not worth your time or mine to be all grumpy and persnickety about my response to your post.  Next time just take it as the good natured smiley faced humorous response it is, rather than jumping down my throat about it.

Not the first time, you know...seen this before.  I remember that thread vividly.