BQueenGirl wrote:
Jose, you have enough talent that you shouldnt be looking in the "advertisements" for models.  And we are human beings, not soap or furnature!!  I am sure you have no problem finding women that shoot in your style.

Thanks for the compliment- but one of the core functions of this site is networking.  I'm here to find people I can work with.  I think most people on this site are here for that reason- though perhaps not exclusively that reason.

We are all commodities on this site- of course we are human- but just b/c someone is a good human means I can use them in a shoot.  A model needs marketeable characteristics.  Please dont interpret my saying that a portfolio should accurately represent the style of photography that model is comfortable with as to dehumanize him or her.

And, I have many styles and I dont have too many problems in finding enough models to shoot in any of them to keep me busy.  But art isnt about coookie cutter- its about finding the right look- not many looks.  So- yeah- its is frustrating when someone has the right look, Im interested, their portfolio images suggest that they are comfortable with a certain style of shooting- and then they aren't.

-Jose

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:

That's a fine sentiment, but I can vouch for the fact that it dosen't go both ways:  Models rarely have a problem with asking photographers for things they don't specialize in or care to do...usually on a tfp basis to boot.  In the last month I've been approached by four or five models wanting to do "fashion" or "glamour" or [in one case] "a fetish shoot...but not too fetishy, you know?  just something sexy where I can look a little bit naughty...but not dirty".  I politely turned them down, saying that I was very serious about the type of work I do and that I have no interest in shooting fashion for free...And two of the four emailed me again, one of them actually expecting to be paid to shoot something I didn't want to do in the first place.

Where am I going with this?  Simple.  My point is that so many models don't bother establishing a clear line regarding what they do, they assume that photographers don't have one either.  I can only guess that they read my [rather detailed] profile and figured it didn't mean anything, because their profiles certainly didn't.

As for guilt-tripping a model to do nudes...I've never had to.  I have plenty of people who are plugged into what I'm doing and respect both my work and my motivations for doing the work.  The last thing I need to busy myself with is trying to talk some conflicted wannabe out of her clothes.  My real point is that enabling one segment of the community to eschew basic professionalism erodes the conduct all around.  And then the GWCs and GWSs [Girls With Snapshots] will pretty much be running the show.  Who needs that?

Excellent points.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:

Now that's an attack!

; )

It's not meant to be, but that is the first thing that comes to mind and as a result, I will pass them up in consideration for a shoot.

Doug Harvey wrote:

It's not meant to be, but that is the first thing that comes to mind and as a result, I will pass them up in consideration for a shoot.

Just kidding...I feel quite the same way that you do.  Sadly there are many who would consider your disinterest in wasting time as "bitterness" or worse "an attack."

Hip Hop Model wrote:
What is up with all these models on Model Mayhem saying "I do not do nude work" but  when you click on View Photos there just all BUTT NAKED....

probably- i dont do tfp nudes
i mean i can understand why people would put it. If they put they do nudes they are going to get thousands of emails from perverted men wanting to shoot them. Some want to be able to do nudes but not be constantly harrassed by GWCs. Just because you would do nudes with one person doesnt mean you are willing to do it with anyone.

People seem to want to do nudes before other things. So a girl who has a lot of nudes is never going to get anywhere if she keeps doing nudes. I know since i put the thing about Maxim in my profile, 90 percent of my offers have been to shoot glamour even though i said i usually dont shoot glamour. I'm taking it off as soon as i get shots because that is definately not what i need for my portfolio. I'm sure if i didnt have that statement there, the same photographers who are now asking me to shoot glamour would be asking me to shoot commercial or fashion instead.

Yeah maybe nudes is all she has, maybe she likes the shoots, but maybe she also thinks its time for a change and doesnt want you to think that just because she has done nude work that thats all she wants to do.

Marvin Dockery wrote:
My thoughts are, "Why show nude or simi nude images, if you are not doing this kind of modeling work".

  If you walked down a public street with just you hands covering your private parts, you would get arrested.  You could say to the cop that you were not nude, just implied, and he would laugh at you as he closed the cruiser's door in your face.

I think some models do this to get attention, but then act insulted when a photographer ask them if they are open to doing what they have been showing in their portfolio. 

This would be like going into a pizza place, and having the order taker say, "We only do hamburgers. The Pizza sign is just a fake we put out front to have some fun."



I am not down on models. I have worked with a lot of them, but not many from the Internet

I have never seen nudes in a photographers portfolio, where the photographer is saying I do not shoot nudes.

they do it because that image happens to be beautiful. its people like you that make me not want to post my nudes in my portfolio. I have a gorgeous Kate Moss A&F type pose that i did a while back, but if i post it not only will pervs be giving me creepy compliments, but people will forget about asking me to do commercial and ask me to do nudes. No sorry I only do payed nudes because i just cannot use nudes for what i want to do. I have so many nudes that are just gorgeous and i wish i had clothes on in them so i can put them in my portfolio, but i just cant. its sad.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:

Just kidding...I feel quite the same way that you do.  Sadly there are many who would consider your disinterest in wasting time as "bitterness" or worse "an attack."

I know sometimes I don't put a lot of thought into the writing before it just blurbs-out. I guess the proper way to have phrased it would have been to say something along the lines of "if a model does not feel comfortable in working in the nude with all photographers, then perhaps make the statement in her profile that she is very selective in who she shoots with in the nude." I know that sounds like a politically correct way of saying it.

Brian Kirk wrote:
Usually means they're not doing nude work with just any GWC.

Wouldn't the most diplomatic way to get that point across be to say "Nudes with select photographers only"?

Or would that just make the GWC's try harder to appear "select"?

No one should have to play the "no means maybe" game. I thought that assumption went out of style with Feminism and Political Correctness!

rp_photo wrote:

Wouldn't the most diplomatic way to get that point across be to say "Nudes with select photographers only"?

Or would that just make the GWC's try harder to appear "select"?

No one should have to play the "no means maybe" game. I thought that assumption went out of style with Feminism and Political Correctness!

but all photographers probably think they are "select" photographers, and 90 percent of them will take the chance and ask

Tati wrote:
they do it because that image happens to be beautiful. its people like you that make me not want to post my nudes in my portfolio.[/qoute]

If nude modelling isn't in your professional repetoire, you shouldn't have them in your public portfolio anyway.  You don't see me filling my page with wedding shots do you? 

Tati wrote:
I have a gorgeous Kate Moss A&F type pose that i did a while back, but if i post it not only will pervs be giving me creepy compliments,

This whole "pervs giving creepy comments" thing is getting a bit old.  I don't get any from my work and i pretty much try to encourage comments from "pervs" of various distinctions.  None of the models I work with seem to have any trouble with this either, and some of them have been at this for quite awhile...I'm starting to think it's all hooey.

Tati wrote:
but people will forget about asking me to do commercial and ask me to do nudes. No sorry I only do payed nudes because i just cannot use nudes for what i want to do. I have so many nudes that are just gorgeous and i wish i had clothes on in them so i can put them in my portfolio, but i just cant. its sad.

If you only do nude work for pay, that's fine and dandy.  There's no problem with you showing them in your portfolio and stating firmly in your profile that you only pose nude in a paying context.  The issue of the thread is models who fill their public port with nude images and then claim they don't pose nude at all, which is obviously not true, since they got those nudes from somebody with a camera.

maggieminaker wrote:
ok i don tget this at all whats wrong with a women saying no? they say no they do not do nudes everyone should respect that and maybe they have a nude pic in the profile because they want to show people that might be intrested ther whole body figure ... not a big deal people get over it

Men are visually oriented, and use the photos more often than taking the time to read.  This means that most guys use the pictures on a site to determine what a model may do.  If nude photos are posted, that's a valid type of pose to ask of the model.  The men that take time to read will see a conflict between what they saw and what is written.  Since vision makes more sense to men than words, you end up with "You did it before, so why not now?" from some of them.

If she doesn't want to be asked, don't post the nudes.

Hip Hop Model wrote:
What is up with all these models on Model Mayhem saying "I do not do nude work" but  when you click on View Photos there just all BUTT NAKED....

Sometimes it's just a matter of them changing their mind. Other times it's a matter of comfort. Still others .... well, who knows?

I actually can understand why models sometimes do this. Let's face it. photographers can be off the hook a lot of times with the pressuring models to do nude and nude-like. They can receive soooooo many invites of the like attracting only sexy in there port. There is certainly a perv factor that they are concerned  about. Models who might be on the fence can easily be disuaded if they feel that's all they're going to get for their time and efforts.

It's their way of being cautious or protective.

This issue doesn't bother me a bit.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
This whole "pervs giving creepy comments" thing is getting a bit old.  I don't get any from my work and i pretty much try to encourage comments from "pervs" of various distinctions.  None of the models I work with seem to have any trouble with this either, and some of them have been at this for quite awhile...I'm starting to think it's all hooey.

I don't think it's *entirely* all hooey Melvin darling. I do think though, that there are times that "pervs" (like dogs) can sense/smell fear or weakness and will gravitate towards those who might get creeped out by someone drooling over their "nekkidness".  It's far easier to manipulate someone who appears to be easily discomfited, no?

I also think that there are some women* who would rather not be put in a position of having to be blunt and possibly "mean" for fear of either  being thought of as a "bitch", or having someone be “meanâ€? back.  A lot of us have been raised to be polite, sweet, girls. some of us have managed to shed that to an extent ;-)


*yes, men can be conflict avoidant too, but we're talking about female models here

Mockingbird Girl wrote:
I don't think it's *entirely* all hooey Melvin darling. I do think though, that there are times that "pervs" (like dogs) can sense/smell fear or weakness and will gravitate towards those who might get creeped out by someone drooling over their "nekkidness".  It's far easier to manipulate someone who appears to be easily discomfited, no?

I understand what you're saying, but I contend that if someone might get creeped out by someone drooling over them, then the internet is not the place for nude images of themself.  "Creepy pervs" won't even know who you are if they can't find you.

Mockingbird Girl wrote:
I also think that there are some women* who would rather not be put in a position of having to be blunt and possibly "mean" for fear of either  being thought of as a "bitch", or having someone be “meanâ€? back.  A lot of us have been raised to be polite, sweet, girls. some of us have managed to shed that to an extent ;-)

I repeat that if one hasn't the gumption to say what they mean and actually mean it, then this is not the business for them.  Sometimes the things you have to do and say in this business aren't pretty or fun.  I think any reasonable, professional person can tell the difference between bitchy/mean and professional honesty.  This endless carping about "creepy pervs ogling me" strikes me as neither -- more it strikes me as the self-entitled, immature whining of the unprofessional wanabes who make our business so treacherous and difficult.