Model
Iona Lynn
Posts: 11176
Oakland, California, US
Here is a side tangent on our nude discusion.
Yes some of us do nudes now, some of us used to do nudes, some of us do very selective nudes.
It has been pointed out to me in public that I won't shoot with certain photogs. ie "she won't shoot with me I don't know why"
or "Ok you want fashion ftp and I want nudes so we traid, yes?"
"you shot for so and so you need to shoot for me"
and on and on and on.
What is the best way to say....
I don't want to shoot with you!!!
I try to be polite and not insult any body but some photogs seem to take it very badly.
Photographer
ericphotonyc
Posts: 538
Brooklyn, New York, US
How about "Sorry, I am not interested."
If you are honest and polite, and they take it badly, it is their problem, not yours.
We can't save the world.
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
Iona Lynn wrote:
What is the best way to say....
I don't want to shoot with you!!! If it were me, I would say: "I don't want to shoot with you."
Sorry, I know that sounds harsh and what you are looking for are gentler words. I suppose you could say, "Sorry, your project doesn't fit what I am looking to do right now," or you could say, "I'm sorry, but I have another commitment."
The truth is though, if a photographer doesn't want to shoot you, he isn't going to shoot you. Models have to face rejection all the time. Photographers need to deal with the simple "No" without getting bent out of shape.
The problem is that, when we are talking about TFP, then there is no money and feelings get hurt. When we are talking about a model saying no to nudity, the photographer wants to be the first (or he doesn't want to be the one she says no to), but in any event, feelings are hurt.
There is no reason for feelings to be hurt. I just don't see the point. Everyone isn't going to say yes and everyone isn't going to say no.
So, let's get back to telling jokes. We're all way too serious today.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
every pro understands you may do nudes..but you may not do nudes with everyone...so just a " im not interetsed" is fine for us....we can handle it..we'll move on..its the GWCs that are going to have an issue..and well..we dont care what the GWCs think anyway....
Photographer
Benjamen McGuire
Posts: 3991
Portland, Oregon, US
hell, i'd rather have a rude 'no' than no answer at all or a lame yes and a no-show.
Photographer
TBJ Imaging
Posts: 2416
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US
Iona Lynn wrote:
Here is a side tangent on our nude discusion.
Yes some of us do nudes now, some of us used to do nudes, some of us do very selective nudes.
It has been pointed out to me in public that I won't shoot with certain photogs. ie "she won't shoot with me I don't know why"
or "Ok you want fashion ftp and I want nudes so we traid, yes?"
"you shot for so and so you need to shoot for me"
and on and on and on.
What is the best way to say....
I don't want to shoot with you!!!
I try to be polite and not insult any body but some photogs seem to take it very badly. Iona Lynn wrote:
Here is a side tangent on our nude discusion.
Yes some of us do nudes now, some of us used to do nudes, some of us do very selective nudes.
It has been pointed out to me in public that I won't shoot with certain photogs. ie "she won't shoot with me I don't know why"
or "Ok you want fashion ftp and I want nudes so we traid, yes?"
"you shot for so and so you need to shoot for me"
and on and on and on.
What is the best way to say....
I don't want to shoot with you!!!
I try to be polite and not insult any body but some photogs seem to take it very badly. So the truth comes out....I actually contacted you 2 times when you first signed up on MM to do a shoot (I was ignored both times). So now I see it was just a "I don't want to shoot with you" I would rather hear a reason like "I don't like your work" than ignoring. I think models and photographers should be honest....if you don't want to work with someone.....say it. It will make the person go away much faster than lies or ignoring will.
Model
Adrienne Aurora
Posts: 2745
Atlanta, Georgia, US
I just send them my rates and that ends that.
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28822
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Well, I find that threatening the model with bodily harm after she rejects me doesn't work as well as it should.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Thomas B wrote:
So the truth comes out....I actually contacted you 2 times when you first signed up on MM to do a shoot (I was ignored both times). So now I see it was just a "I don't want to shoot with you" I would rather hear a reason like "I don't like your work" than ignoring. I think models and photographers should be honest....if you don't want to work with someone.....say it. It will make the person go away much faster than lies or ignoring will. you were ignored and you asked again?...shouldn't that have said enough? hell if i send a model a PM and she reads it and doesnt answer in two days..i sent her a message recinding the offer...
Photographer
TBJ Imaging
Posts: 2416
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US
If I want to work with someone, I always email twice especially if the model is a new member because new members get flooded with emails and messages. So I send another one about a week later as a follow up. If that goes ignored, I take the hint. sorry if you think emailing somone twice is crossing the line.
Photographer
area291
Posts: 2525
Calabasas, California, US
Iona Lynn wrote:
What is the best way to say....
I don't want to shoot with you!!!
I try to be polite and not insult any body but some photogs seem to take it very badly. There is a misguided thought process amongst the 'net crowd that every solicitation requires a response. They don't. Silence to strangers says more than any words that could possibily be written when there is no interest, even the proverbial looking down on the request with a polite well intentioned "no thank you." Without a returned response the invitation will surely be soon forgotten.
Photographer
Duncan
Posts: 2135
New York, New York, US
Cspine wrote:
hell, i'd rather have a rude 'no' than no answer at all or a lame yes and a no-show. Well said, I find that it is more annoying for someone to say what you want to hear and then never show up then that model saying "you are the worst, stupidest, most uncreative and uninspired photographer I have ever met. " Those people I respect much more , at least they are not mincing words!
Photographer
MarkMarek
Posts: 2211
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
area291 wrote:
There is a misguided thought process amongst the 'net crowd that every solicitation requires a response. They don't. Silence to strangers says more than any words that could possibily be written when there is no interest, even the proverbial looking down on the request with a polite well intentioned "no thank you." Without a returned response the invitation will surely be soon forgotten. She actually asked for a polite way to say no
Model
~*Isabel Aurora*~
Posts: 5778
Boca del Mar, Florida, US
Duncan wrote:
Well said, I find that it is more annoying for someone to say what you want to hear and then never show up then that model saying "you are the worst, stupidest, most uncreative and uninspired photographer I have ever met. " Those people I respect much more , at least they are not mincing words! I think you may have misunderstood (unless I am misunderstanding). Cspine said he would rather have a model confirm and not show up, or he would rather her rudely say no then not to say anything at all 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
Personally, I very much prefer honesty -- it wastes the least amount of time for both parties. Be clear, specific, non-judgemental (as much as possible). Things that are acceptable & sufficiently polite are...
"I don't feel that my style & your style would be comfortable for me."
"I don't want to pose for you -- thanks anyhow".
"I'm being selective right now, and I just don't feel the chemistry. Sorry, no."
Stuff like that.
My bottom line -- please don't waste my time, don't hint around anything that sounds like "maybe" (e.g. "maybe later but not right now"). Never string me along.
Final word: it's perfectly acceptable if my style & your style don't overlap -- that doesn't mean that either of our styles is wrong.
Photographer
shabaka
Posts: 202
WINSTON SALEM, North Carolina, US
Greetings,
Just tell them...I won't work with your tired, non-able to help me become famous tail,...not in this or any other lifetime....Orlar 'Doe! Or you could just say thanks but no thank you....
Take care,
AJ
PS no offense was meant to anyone who happen to be named Orlar' Doe.
Body Painter
Eric Mayhem
Posts: 481
Seattle, Washington, US
Just say "No, thank you". Etiquette does not require you to give an explanation.
Model
Iona Lynn
Posts: 11176
Oakland, California, US
Looknsee Photography wrote:
Personally, I very much prefer honesty -- it wastes the least amount of time for both parties. Be clear, specific, non-judgemental (as much as possible). Things that are acceptable & sufficiently polite are...
"I don't feel that my style & your style would be comfortable for me."
"I don't want to pose for you -- thanks anyhow".
"I'm being selective right now, and I just don't feel the chemistry. Sorry, no."
Stuff like that.
My bottom line -- please don't waste my time, don't hint around anything that sounds like "maybe" (e.g. "maybe later but not right now"). Never string me along.
Final word: it's perfectly acceptable if my style & your style don't overlap -- that doesn't mean that either of our styles is wrong. good suggestions thanks. I'll keep those in mind.
Although I do seem to see a trend with photographers who are all about shoot now, right now, now I tell you If we don't shoot now I'll never work with you ever.
Thomas I'm sorry I did not respond I don't recall your emails to me at all. I'm human and I make mistakes.
Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6511
Los Angeles, California, US
If you're looking for a nice way to say it without coming off as abrasive, just say "I'm flattered by the offer, but it's not something I can pursue at present. I appreciate your interest. Thanks."
Granted, you might not find the offer flattering or appreciate the interest. But it's a polite way to say "I'd rather not work with you." without stating it flatly.
Photographer
Paul Brecht
Posts: 12232
Colton, California, US
ericphotonyc wrote:
How about "Sorry, I am not interested."
If you are honest and polite, and they take it badly, it is their problem, not yours.
We can't save the world. Exactly... I think some people "act" as though it hurts their feelings as a sympathy card to make you give in & do it anyway...
If this is a business, there will be dissapointments. This is life. Life's not always fair. Just think about all the times you've been turned down. You may have been dissapointed, but you still live & are here doing what you're doing, right ???
They'll live. If they get dramatic about it, they need to get a life...
Paul
Photographer
Pat Thielen
Posts: 16800
Hastings, Minnesota, US
Good responses. I especially like the last one (Jay's? Sorry... no short-term memory apparantly); it was polite and non-abrasive. With me, I usually don't get a response, which I simply take as a "no" and move on. No biggie.
And I never threaten a model who won't work with me. Never! Nope! Instead, I tell them I'm going to kill myself if they turn me down. And that really sucks... I've had to kill myself at least twelve times so far. Good thing I'm immortal!
-P-
Model
Diane ly
Posts: 1068
Manhattan, Illinois, US
A polite way to say it and to actually scare them off is to say, "Well my rate for artistic nude is 2,000 dollars per hour and I don't want you to publish it or have any rights to use it in your portfolio. I also require you to sign a release that gives me the rights to all images. Thanks!" I am sure after that prompt response he won't be interested! LOL
Photographer
SunSplash Photography
Posts: 479
Orlando, Florida, US
I'm with Eric, and I sure wish photographers would get off the ego trip and come down to Earth. I know, it's wishful thinking, but really, photogs, just because someone shot with one photographer, where is the law that says they have to shoot with you?
Didn't you ever learn: When a woman says "No" she means "No." Unless she's standing there nude. lol
Photographer
SunSplash Photography
Posts: 479
Orlando, Florida, US
Jay Bowman wrote:
If you're looking for a nice way to say it without coming off as abrasive, just say "I'm flattered by the offer, but it's not something I can pursue at present. I appreciate your interest. Thanks."
Granted, you might not find the offer flattering or appreciate the interest. But it's a polite way to say "I'd rather not work with you." without stating it flatly. Jay, that's the nicest rejection I've ever heard, and I never even asked you to model! Thanks! :-)
Photographer
D. Brian Nelson
Posts: 5477
Rapid City, South Dakota, US
Say, "You suck. I only do nudes with D. Brian."
-D. Brian
Photographer
SunSplash Photography
Posts: 479
Orlando, Florida, US
And another thing! lol
Who demands that models do nude shoots on TFP anyway? I don't--I know that's precious there, and unless the model tells me in our initial emails concerning the shoot that she's comfortable working that way (and that has happened), I don't pursue it. Photographers should remember that, for models, this is commerce. If they choose to put some of their skills under the "for pay only" column, it seems to me we should be respectful of that. Word gets around, anyway.
With TFCD shoots, I shoot nudes all the time. It's just that, most of the time, the model has clothes on over her nudity.
Photographer
SunSplash Photography
Posts: 479
Orlando, Florida, US
Pat Thielen wrote:
And I never threaten a model who won't work with me. Never! Nope! Instead, I tell them I'm going to kill myself if they turn me down. And that really sucks... I've had to kill myself at least twelve times so far. Good thing I'm immortal!
-P- No you aren't, you just think you are. That's why all those people are chasing you with pitchforks and torches. Now lie down and be still.
Photographer
SunSplash Photography
Posts: 479
Orlando, Florida, US
Diana Moffitt wrote:
A polite way to say it and to actually scare them off is to say, "Well my rate for artistic nude is 2,000 dollars per hour and I don't want you to publish it or have any rights to use it in your portfolio. I also require you to sign a release that gives me the rights to all images. Thanks!"
I am sure after that prompt response he won't be interested! LOL Diana, I think I can get that $4,000 by next Friday...
Photographer
D. Brian Nelson
Posts: 5477
Rapid City, South Dakota, US
Blue Group wrote:
And another thing! Who demands that models do nude shoots on TFP anyway? I do.
-Don
Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6511
Los Angeles, California, US
Blue Group and Pat
Thanks for the compliments! I'm flattered that you would even mention it, but at present...
*snicker*
See how easy it is?
Photographer
bobby sargent
Posts: 4159
Deming, New Mexico, US
I just do not worry about it.
I am looking for models for my trips. I usually post something here or on one of the other fourms. Then I go looking.
I ask several models if they are interested in my tirps and send them links. If they reply back then I go into more details. If they do not reply back so what. I move on and find a model who will work for me.
I think only GWC'S that are on this forum are the biggest crybabies I have ever seen when it comes to being rejected by a model not wanting to shoot nude with you. Get over it dude and grow up. bs
Photographer
BasementStudios
Posts: 801
Newton Falls, Ohio, US
area291 wrote:
There is a misguided thought process amongst the 'net crowd that every solicitation requires a response. They don't. Silence to strangers says more than any words that could possibily be written when there is no interest, even the proverbial looking down on the request with a polite well intentioned "no thank you." Without a returned response the invitation will surely be soon forgotten. She said a POLITE way....this is just rude.
Photographer
BasementStudios
Posts: 801
Newton Falls, Ohio, US
Iona Lynn wrote:
Here is a side tangent on our nude discusion.
Yes some of us do nudes now, some of us used to do nudes, some of us do very selective nudes.
It has been pointed out to me in public that I won't shoot with certain photogs. ie "she won't shoot with me I don't know why"
or "Ok you want fashion ftp and I want nudes so we traid, yes?"
"you shot for so and so you need to shoot for me"
and on and on and on.
What is the best way to say....
I don't want to shoot with you!!!
I try to be polite and not insult any body but some photogs seem to take it very badly. Just say, 'No thank you' and move on. The only one that is going to get their feelings hurt is the GWC and you don't want to shoot with them anyway.
Photographer
Yuriy
Posts: 1000
Gillette, New Jersey, US
ericphotonyc wrote:
How about "Sorry, I am not interested."
... May I suggest "Thank you, but I am not interested."
Photographer
Moraxian
Posts: 2607
Germantown, Maryland, US
Yuriy wrote:
May I suggest "Thank you, but I am not interested." That is a perfect way to say "No" politely. Most photographers when getting a reply like that from a model will not ask that model again (unless they forgot they asked her a few years ago....I've done that.  )
Photographer
The Photo Chick
Posts: 213
Fayetteville, North Carolina, US
ericphotonyc wrote:
How about "Sorry, I am not interested."
If you are honest and polite, and they take it badly, it is their problem, not yours.
We can't save the world. Yup.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Diana Moffitt wrote:
A polite way to say it and to actually scare them off is to say, "Well my rate for artistic nude is 2,000 dollars per hour and I don't want you to publish it or have any rights to use it in your portfolio. I also require you to sign a release that gives me the rights to all images. Thanks!"
I am sure after that prompt response he won't be interested! LOL Unless it's a super rich GWC and probably thinks that you are a full service model and the shoot will have a happy ending... and I am not talking about Hollywood 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Blue Group wrote:
Who demands that models do nude shoots on TFP anyway? I don't-- Yeah, exactly.
I do not shoot nudes, well, I did some semi ones on demand, with my ex-wife (did runway), but otherwise...
Honestly, if I would ever start doing nudes, I would try to shoot close to the aestetics of Marcus J. Ranum MM#3721.
I am concerned that, if I shoot anything less, it will be cheesy or so... so I don't even attempt that genre.
Photographer
area291
Posts: 2525
Calabasas, California, US
area291 wrote:
There is a misguided thought process amongst the 'net crowd that every solicitation requires a response. They don't. Silence to strangers says more than any words that could possibily be written when there is no interest, even the proverbial looking down on the request with a polite well intentioned "no thank you." Without a returned response the invitation will surely be soon forgotten. BasementStudios wrote:
She said a POLITE way....this is just rude. I disagree. If it is an unrequested solicitation there is no need to respond if there is no interest. Polite has nothing to do with it.
Solicitation to the respondent should be viewed as giving one a choice to respond, not a demand to respond. The expectation of response through that demand is what I would call rude by placing a burden on those to take action on something of no interest.
No response? Move on. Now, I have some thank you letters to send to Pottery Barn for filling my mailbox with junk mail...
Photographer
Voice of Reason
Posts: 8741
Anaheim, California, US
Cspine wrote:
hell, i'd rather have a rude 'no' than no answer at all or a lame yes and a no-show. Aint that the truth. I guess a true professional would rather have an actual reply than no reply from someone who is "afraid to offend".
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