Pitaru wrote:
Does honest mean kissing their ass? If it is so, then I am sorry for not knowing it.

Yes, it does.  Apology accepted. 

Pitaru wrote:
Can someone please explain why the hell do people go on Announcements and say Please leave honest comments and when you go and tell them what you think they email you and tell you "I killed that comment" Why the hell are you "killing that comment" if you asked for a honest opinion. I gave you a honest opinion and if you dont like what I said you just delete me? Does honest mean kissing their ass? If it is so, then I am sorry for not knowing it.

Those people are lame attention whores.

Select Models wrote:
Honest opinion?!?!?!?!?... LOL... you think they want your HONEST opinion... fuck no!  They want you to come over to their page, leave some buttered up, rosey colored comment, telling them how awesome the shot is, or how terrific they look... and if thats  NOT the case, you better just lie your ass off and stroke them with some bullshit anyway, or not only will they delete your comment, they might even go so far as to report you to a moderator for harrassment, and get you booted off the site.  My recommendation?... ignore all the 'comment begging' ninnies...

I have learned to tell the truth..however, I see what you are saying. Maybe I should keep my mouth shut, even though this is not one of my best features

Gary Davis wrote:

Yes, it does.  Apology accepted. 

Do I look like a cat to you, boy? Am I jumpin' around all nimbly-bimbly from tree to tree? Am I drinking milk from a saucer? DO YOU SEE ME EATING MICE?

Pat Thielen wrote:
By the way; you have some very nice work in your portfolio. Just sayin'...

   -P-

Thank you. You should've saw my last bio when I was asking people not to kiss my ass by telling me how my work looks loool I really appreciate it

Pat Thielen wrote:
Exactly! I've been told before that a particular photo sucks, or even my work sucks overall. But when I ask them to clarify this opinion they've never been able to tell me what it is they don't like. So, I think its just my photography doesn't connect with them at all, which is fine. But a "critique" of "you suck" doesn't help anyone, and is rather annoying at the least. Especially when you actually do suck!

  Sorry, its getting late and I'm on my second wind of insomnia here...

  -P-

Your going to find people who don't like your work simply because it's different from theirs.  Hell I don't think your style works for me but I do think it's has a strong look and see that it works for you and that's what counts.

To me very few people have the ability to make suggestion that improve an image or body of work while still retaining the original style instead their making the kind of suggestions that will make the other person work look like imitations of theirs.

Me I accept minor suggestions from anyone and everyone as it never hurts to take a few minutes to look at an image from a different view point.   On the othe hand when I get suggestions about make major changes that effect the look and style of an image or body of work.  I go checkout that persons work to see if they even know what their taking about.    I believe one should be able demonstrate an ability before they start giving people advice about it.   

Now the chances of me making major changes to my work due to the comment of one person no matter how much I like their work are slim to none but I do keep what they say in mind and try to make minor changes that will improve my work while still retaining my look and style.

Mike

DawnElizabeth Moderator wrote:
Basically, if I don't have anything nice to say about their work, and they want a critique, I PM them. I don't leave a public comment. It's a little more work for me to do, so I don't do it often unless I can see the potential in someone's work.

Ohh - too bad. Wouldn't it be great to have a PM from you?
Just kidding - I guess you're right. I myself criticise others very rarely - too many people who have so much more knowledge here and know better what's wrong with a picture than I do...
As you can see - my style is kind of one-dimensional.

DawnElizabeth Moderator wrote:
Basically, if I don't have anything nice to say about their work, and they want a critique, I PM them.

Exactly.

A. H A M I L T O N wrote:
Even when someone does take the time to give a critique it's mostly worthless in this environment.  Let me explain.

First, a web portfolio here doesn't usually require the same sort of cohesion that a real book would require to land work.  Besides, hardly anyone that looks at the portfolios from the site are actually thinking about hiring the model or photographer (yes, there ARE exceptions).

Given that, you also have to wonder about the qualifications of the person giving the critique.  A new photographer just starting out may look at someone else's work and just be amazed and want to try and copy their style.  That's fine if this is a second career or hobby for them, but for the most part that's going to hurt them.  Often, there is no commercial market for the style of photography that some of the really exceptional amateurs (I use that phrase simply to mean a professional-quality, hobbiest photographer, there are tons of them).  Even more often, if someone tries to mimic a style of someone in a different market they're shooting themselves in the foot.

I do well in Dallas for what I do considering how long I've been at it.  If I had taken the random advice of certain really exceptional photographers in NY or LA my stuff wouldn't sell here.  Conversely, even though I do really well here, I would NOT suggest that an upcoming photographer in NY contact me for a critique.

I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the face, if you're SERIOUS about getting a critique, you NEED to get them from professionals in your market.  For those to which this is just a hobby, that doesn't apply...but you really need to know the difference before you try and critique someone.

Andy

This is a very reasonable response to the topic and I, for one, appreciate it!  I would only disagree with one part of it, though.

A. H A M I L T O N wrote:
A new photographer just starting out may look at someone else's work and just be amazed and want to try and copy their style.  That's fine if this is a second career or hobby for them, but for the most part that's going to hurt them.

There is a method in learning art that suggests one copy the masters to learn what they can about the techniques that made them masters!  This is not to suggest that one attempt to build a career of copying other's art to pass off as their own, this is to suggest that you may not be technically proficient enough to go beyond that technique until you can actually master it.  If a beginning photographer attempts to re-create the lighting in a photo that is well known for its masterful lighting, that beginning photographer will learn from the experience, and then be able to move beyond that to reveal their own vision.

I will never be able to take the photos you take.  (BTW, I think your photos are wonderful, and thereby justify your opinion!)  But, by taking a close look at them, I feel I have learned something about lighting and about the way I should frame models in the shot.  I believe if I continue to observe and study and even attempt to re-create some of the images I admire, that one day I will be able to mold all of that learning into a style that I can call my own!  Much like a musician who has had the influences of the musicians who came before him/her, eventually creates a style that is all their own.

Select Models wrote:
Honest opinion?!?!?!?!?... LOL... you think they want your HONEST opinion... fuck no!  They want you to come over to their page, leave some buttered up, rosey colored comment, telling them how awesome the shot is, or how terrific they look... and if thats  NOT the case, you better just lie your ass off and stroke them with some bullshit anyway, or not only will they delete your comment, they might even go so far as to report you to a moderator for harrassment, and get you booted off the site.  If they cant generate a straight-forward remark from the quality of the image posted, then they shouldn't be spamming for comments.  My recommendation?... ignore all the 'comment begging' ninnies...

thats a bit extreeme

A. H A M I L T O N wrote:
I'll concede your counter point in the context, I actually meant to suggest those that feel they're ready to start putting together a book and are looking for a saleable style, but I wasn't explicit. Good catch.

Andy

Oops... I obviously don't have a keen sense of the obvious!  LOL!  Now I get it.

Jeffrey Haas wrote:
It's similar to clicking on a picture and then pressing F5 over and over to boost your view count...

WOW!  How did you discover that? 

Toria wrote:
Yep...attention whores who don't care about REAL opinions...just want to be stroked.  A huge side effect of that is that they will never get better or learn...they will just keep on doing the same stale crap they've done all along...

...And for those of us who don't beg for comments, but desire to move forward with their art?  What about us?  How do we balance our request for critique with your generalization of our potential response?  Should we not ask?  Is our desire to learn from others less than that of you who are obviously further along than we?  Did you receive good critique?

Don't get me wrong, this is not a blast of your blast, but an honest set of questions for you.

H. Robert Holmes wrote:
WOW!  How did you discover that? 

Please, have you seen my pictures?  How do you think I got so many views on them? 

Just kidding.  I play fair...

(Oh, and while you're looking at my portfolio, please comment on the pictures.  I'll make sure to delete any negative feedback) 

Jeffrey Haas wrote:
I NEVER ask for peoples opinions on my work.  If you want to comment on it, please feel free, but I'm not going to solicit feedback unless I'm honestly curious about the picture.

People asking for comments, and then selectively removing the negative comments are just trying to make people viewing their portfolio in the future think that they're more popular than they are.  It's similar to clicking on a picture and then pressing F5 over and over to boost your view count...

Right on.  I have been saying this same thing since I came over to MM.  I am always bitching about those who have to ask, plead, beg  for tags or comments. 

I do not ask for comments and if I get one great.  If not great.  I have never taken off a comment that was given to any of my shots.  Well unless I took that shot off my page and added others.

Just goes to show that there are some people who just want to look good and not hear the truth. bs

Jeffrey Haas wrote:

Please, have you seen my pictures?  How do you think I got so many views on them? 

Just kidding.  I play fair...

(Oh, and while you're looking at my portfolio, please comment on the pictures.  I'll make sure to delete any negative feedback) 

HAHAHAHA!!!  I'll be sure to leave good comments, then!  I mean, after all, my pics get posted there too! 

Thomas B wrote:
I am only here to have my ass kissed

Thomas, I LOVE your portfolio!  Such a unique and diverse collection of photographic masterpieces, every shot surpassed only by the next!  You, sir, are a God among photographers! 

(that ok?)

Honestly, I do love your port...

Jeffrey Haas wrote:

Thomas, I LOVE your portfolio!  Such a unique and diverse collection of photographic masterpieces, every shot surpassed only by the next!  You, sir, are a God among photographers! 

(that ok?)

Honestly, I do love your port...

Damn that was good!

Eric Cain wrote:

Do I look like a cat to you, boy? Am I jumpin' around all nimbly-bimbly from tree to tree? Am I drinking milk from a saucer? DO YOU SEE ME EATING MICE?

...nimbly-bimbly
lmfao
I gotta use that one
it sounds so british and upper crusty...
it even makes crude sound polite and high society
"I was doing this chick all nimbly-bimbly...."

joe duerr wrote:
I do not ask for opinions on my work. At most I have to satisfy only two people. I have to satisfy me first. The second person I have to satisfy is the client if there is one.

Well put, and I agree!!!

Thomas B wrote:
Damn that was good!

What, No finally an honest evaluation of my work???

joe duerr wrote:

What, No finally an honest evaluation of my work???

I meant to say that......lol