You only need to buy $40 worth of product at the MAC counter, and yes, the manager of the MAC counter I go to does location work and charges more. It is outside of MAC, so they keep 100% of the fees they charge.

I said MAC was started by "industry" people, right? Well, if EL bought them out, then that is news to me! The MAC make up line should not being going downhill if they have not changed the components of the make up then.

Well, I haven't hit the Monterey MAC counters, but I can tell you that everywhere else, it really is $60 for a face.  That's true here in San Jose.  Remember, I was just there a couple of weeks ago.  I overheard the counter discussing this with a customer.  Also, in reading posts from other artists around the country on my own forum, they too are reporting $60.  Maybe Monterey hasn't caught up yet, or maybe they dont' have the "lookeyloo" problem most of the other counters have.

Additionally, when Estee Lauder bought out MAC, the formulations did change.  Sometimes considerably by some accounts.  The pigmentation is especially different, as their products used to be stronger in pigment.  It used to be an artist line.  It hasn't been for years, though, in the true sense of the word.  Yes, much of their products are still fine for print use, but much is not.  They are no longer hiring Artists, they are hiring sales people.  They just have to be able to hit a quota, like any other line out there.

I do mean a Cosmetology license because many schools do have a MU division. But I will research this more. When I was shooting the California Cosmetology Conventions, it seemed that there were many trained MU Artists there! About one third of the products were MU!

Most sometology schools spend one day at most on makeup, and the training is laughable.  If you've met trained artists, they are either trained after school at the salon, or by a line rep, or perhaps they assisted an artist, or they took additional classes.  I did the cosmo school thing too, have my license, but the makeup "training" was terrible.  I knew more than they did.  They didn't even teach with makeup brushes.  It was all q-tips and cotton balls for application sanitation.

Posted by EmElle: 

You only need to buy $40 worth of product at the MAC counter, and yes, the manager of the MAC counter I go to does location work and charges more. It is outside of MAC, so they keep 100% of the fees they charge.

Well, I haven't hit the Monterey MAC counters, but I can tell you that everywhere else, it really is $60 for a face.  That's true here in San Jose.  Remember, I was just there a couple of weeks ago.  I overheard the counter discussing this with a customer.  Also, in reading posts from other artists around the country on my own forum, they too are reporting $60.  Maybe Monterey hasn't caught up yet, or maybe they don't' have the "lookeyloo" problem most of the other counters have.

I use the MAC manager at the Oakridge Mall in San Jose most often, along with some of the other MU Artists at MAC counters at both Oakridge and Valley Fair. I lived in the San Jose area a long time before I moved back to the Monterey Peninsula. So I am 100% sure that there is a $40 minimum purchase requirement for a make over at any of their counters. I've been using MAC MU Artists since 2001 when I first met a counter manager doing MU for a wedding I was shooting.

Why is it so terrible to be associated with retail? I have worked in retail at different points in my life and appreciate the training. When working for Olan Mills, PCA and a couple other "institutionals" in the retail industry .. I learned a great deal about how to take great portraits in a very short amount of time. I did not stay in the business for too long because I do not like the assembly line approach to photography. But the training was good!

Posted by EmElle: 
Additionally, when Estee Lauder bought out MAC, the formulations did change.  Sometimes considerably by some accounts.  The pigmentation is especially different, as their products used to be stronger in pigment.  It used to be an artist line.  It hasn't been for years, though, in the true sense of the word.  Yes, much of their products are still fine for print use, but much is not.  They are no longer hiring Artists, they are hiring sales people.  They just have to be able to hit a quota, like any other line out there.

OK, so you don't recommend MAC brand products. What brand do you recommend? Also why would they not hire people who can apply make up, a change of policy?

Posted by Mary: 
there are no shortages of artists in HI. Call the professional photographers there, they can direct you to the pros.   

Where I am they are on the OTHER SIDE of the island.  I am not going to pay about $100 just for a MUA.  The only time a MUA is in Hilo is for Susan Page Modeling school.  I took the course and it was HONESTLY a waste nearly $500.  And when I took my "professional" photos, the MUA made my makeup look like regular everyday makeup.  My photos looked like bs.  My face was one color.  What does that tell you?

Posted by Ms Keala: 

Posted by Mary: 
there are no shortages of artists in HI. Call the professional photographers there, they can direct you to the pros.   

Where I am they are on the OTHER SIDE of the island.  I am not going to pay about $100 just for a MUA.  The only time a MUA is in Hilo is for Susan Page Modeling school.  I took the course and it was HONESTLY a waste nearly $500.  And when I took my "professional" photos, the MUA made my makeup look like regular everyday makeup.  My photos looked like bs.  My face was one color.  What does that tell you?

a modeling school..a waste of money? how can that be?

and where are the professional photos you took? let us see the MUA work..we'll tell you if you got your moneys worth..

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 

Posted by Ms Keala: 

Posted by Mary: 
there are no shortages of artists in HI. Call the professional photographers there, they can direct you to the pros.   

Where I am they are on the OTHER SIDE of the island.  I am not going to pay about $100 just for a MUA.  The only time a MUA is in Hilo is for Susan Page Modeling school.  I took the course and it was HONESTLY a waste nearly $500.  And when I took my "professional" photos, the MUA made my makeup look like regular everyday makeup.  My photos looked like bs.  My face was one color.  What does that tell you?

a modeling school..a waste of money? how can that be?

and where are the professional photos you took? let us see the MUA work..we'll tell you if you got your moneys worth..

I will upload the photos and they will be up tomorrow.
happy?

Posted by Ms Keala: 

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 

Posted by Ms Keala: 

Posted by Mary: 
there are no shortages of artists in HI. Call the professional photographers there, they can direct you to the pros.   

Where I am they are on the OTHER SIDE of the island.  I am not going to pay about $100 just for a MUA.  The only time a MUA is in Hilo is for Susan Page Modeling school.  I took the course and it was HONESTLY a waste nearly $500.  And when I took my "professional" photos, the MUA made my makeup look like regular everyday makeup.  My photos looked like bs.  My face was one color.  What does that tell you?

a modeling school..a waste of money? how can that be?

and where are the professional photos you took? let us see the MUA work..we'll tell you if you got your moneys worth..

I will upload the photos and they will be up tomorrow.
happy?

happy?   thats nice..

Posted by Ms Keala: 
Where I am they are on the OTHER SIDE of the island.

So how about going to visit the other side of the island?

Modeling school is a waste, any legit agent will tell you that.  As to the makeup course, I'd have to see the pics to know what was going on there.

Posted by EmElle: 

Posted by Ms Keala: 
Where I am they are on the OTHER SIDE of the island.

So how about going to visit the other side of the island?

Modeling school is a waste, any legit agent will tell you that.  As to the makeup course, I'd have to see the pics to know what was going on there.

some models need to learn deportment skills, so not always a waste of money and sometimes required by legit agencies...

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 
some models need to learn deportment skills, so not always a waste of money and sometimes required by legit agencies...

Modeling school is fine as a finishing school, to build confidence, learn how to carry yourself, speak in front of people, but to actually learn to model?  No.

No legit agency I've heard of requires classes, and many will insist that participation in such classes not appear on the resume.  Any agency requiring modeling classes probably also sells them.  That is a huge red flag.  They are not an agency, they are a school.  They then make money off hopefuls, not legit modeling jobs for which they'd take commission.  If any "agent" wants money up front, run fast and run far.

Acting classes are a different story, and frankly models should take one or two, along with certain fitness classes, dance, communication, etc.

Check out this article for all new models:  http://www.newmodels.com/

Posted by EmElle: 

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 
some models need to learn deportment skills, so not always a waste of money and sometimes required by legit agencies...

Modeling school is fine as a finishing school, to build confidence, learn how to carry yourself, speak in front of people, but to actually learn to model?  No.

No legit agency I've heard of requires classes, and many will insist that participation in such classes not appear on the resume.  Any agency requiring modeling classes probably also sells them.  That is a huge red flag.  They are not an agency, they are a school.  They then make money off hopefuls, not legit modeling jobs for which they'd take commission.  If any "agent" wants money up front, run fast and run far.

Acting classes are a different story, and frankly models should take one or two, along with certain fitness classes, dance, communication, etc.

Check out this article for all new models:  http://www.newmodels.com/

forgive me, but becasue you haven't seen it, doesn't mean its not an accepted practice...you refer to roger t's site,"new models", know that roger has rquired models to attend finishing schools and others.

there are many young women that fit the clothes in modeling industry but were never taught etiquette or runway.

so please dont say legit agencys dont require this..
there  are way to many fallicies about the industry already..

ie: a legit agency never asks you for to pay for anything up front..well they do, they want you to have images and compcards sometimes..there are other expenses in modeling as well..

what most models dont understand is the modeling agenciy works for them, they dont work for the agency..they dont realize the agencys job is not to get models work, but get clients models...

Posted by Ms Keala: 
The photos are up.  The caption is "Professional Shoot Professional Makeup Artist"  and the other one is "Another photo from the sane shoot".  Now give me your opinion on the makeup.

the images are quite frankley awful..
so let me ask this of you..

you found this photographer and make up artists and hired them because you liked thier work?

unfortunaltley the lighting and focus is so bad i cant tell what MUA's work is like..

Posted by Mary: 

Posted by EricMuss-Barnes: 

Posted by Ms Keala: 
I believe models should know how to apply their OWN makeup instead of relying on a makeup artist.  This way the are well-rounded and save money on photoshoots.

(Eric ducks as runs as MUAs pull out flamethrowers...)

well you better duck because I'm ready to fire.  

Let me just be very honest..............

You should know how to apply your own makeup if you do budget shoots that won't hire an artist, that would be great to have a model that could do her owm makeup and save everyone money....but it is in the best interest of all artists to keep our secrets to ourselves so that when the  client sees how bad the makeup looks in the photos he will decide to hire a pro next time.  This keeps us working, we like to work, we have bills to pay.  It's that simple.  So the only FREE advice you will get from me is 'hire a pro' advice beyond that will cost you dearly.

I hope that helped    

I respect your perspective, but I still think a model should know make-up basics.

Siskiyou Digital Imaging Make-Up Rules:

1) Fingernails painted red!
2) Very light eye makeup very little eyeliner!
3) Powder!!! Shine is not cool in photos!
4) Blush is needed, but not too much
5) Red lipstick, browns and darks don't work well! Lip gloss or lighter lipstick is acceptable depending on the clothes.
6) Get rid of those undereye circles and save time Photoshopping!
7) Learn the contours of your face and apply bronzing powder and highlights accordingly. My jaw is somewhat weak for example so I put blush underneath my jaw to bring out the lines a bit.

If you want any one-one-one lessons, come visit me in Siskiyou and I will be happy to show you free of charge. I sell The Body Shop make-up and body products, and I recommend them highly. Email me if you want to buy some!

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 

Posted by Ms Keala: 
The photos are up.  The caption is "Professional Shoot Professional Makeup Artist"  and the other one is "Another photo from the sane shoot".  Now give me your opinion on the makeup.

the images are quite frankley awful..
so let me ask this of you..

you found this photographer and make up artists and hired them because you liked thier work?

unfortunaltley the lighting and focus is so bad i cant tell what MUA's work is like..

Awwwww! Harsh but somewhat true...perfect example of how sometimes it is better to do your own make-up, borrow a digicam and take some pics with your girlfriends! The make-up in those photos doesn't do you justice. I guess even "professionals" don't always do the best job. But hey, it's worth a try right? I wish I'd had a chance to go to modeling school! Keep it up and don't ever lose faith! You are still young and so beautiful nothing can stop you even bad photogs and MUAs!

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 
know that roger has rquired models to attend finishing schools and others.

Name when and to who.  I've been at his office and heard him tell models to remove any mention of modeling school from their resumes, and why.  I've seen him post dozens of times that they are very unnecessary.  Even the site I referred you to, which he wrote, says no to modeling schools.

Yes, commercial print agencies want comp cards made up, but it's up to the model to do that.  A fashion agency typically wants snapshots unless they refer them to testing to see how they'll do.  That's different than requiring payment for modeling schools.

(An agent may make photographer referrals, but any that insist you use their photographer ONLY is also a red flag.  Small markets may be exempt from this when there is only one good shooter in the area.) 

I'd love to know which agencies, in the major markets, require modeling school for their hopefuls.

Posted by Ms Keala: 
The photos are up.  The caption is "Professional Shoot Professional Makeup Artist"  and the other one is "Another photo from the sane shoot".  Now give me your opinion on the makeup.

i just took a look at those shots....

to be honest, they are garbage. sorry.

yea, the make up isn't glamourous, it's not avant-garde, its your run of the mill, corrective. i wasn't there, i can't say what was communicated to the mua, if anyone explained what they were looking for, etc.

i don't know how much experience this artist has either... these are all things that need to be known BEFORE you shoot. communication is key.

did you tell her after she applied it that you wanted something a little more? more color maybe? if she is just learning (getting hands-on experience), as are you, then working together like that isn't bad - and these things should be discused before hand. as well as SEEING their work.

but more than just the make up isn't working in those shots. so don't blame the make up artist for these shots turning out bad, there are a couple more people involved as well...

not all mua's rock. just like some "models" are crappy, and photographers. 

Posted by EmElle: 

Posted by Doug Swinskey: 
know that roger has rquired models to attend finishing schools and others.

Name when and to who.

Yes, commercial print agencies want comp cards made up, but it's up to the model to do that.  A fashion agency typically wants snapshots unless they refer them to testing to see how they'll do.  That's different than requiring payment for modeling schools.

(An agent may make photographer referrals, but any that insist you use their photographer ONLY is also a red flag.  Small markets may be exempt from this when there is only one good shooter in the area.) 

I'd love to know which agencies, in the major markets, require modeling school for their hopefuls.

well, i only know that roger told me that some of his girls required finishing school, not modeling, which would be consistant with my local talent agencies..i didnt call him on the carpet and ask who...when...

roger also mentioned, which was consistant in my market, that there no such things as model resumes in NYC, just portfolios..unless your promtional, but thats not quite modeling (i duck) in my opinion..so for him to tell models to leave them off their resumes doesn't make sense to me..
maybe you meant online profiles???

i never suggested any agency demand their applicants take modeling schools, i only said they might and doesn't make them a scam..

and yes, when you are directed to one photogrpaher from an agent that should be a red flag..

agencies..ie: fashion, editorial fashion, commercial print ect, all have different criteria of whats expected from the model, up front..

i am not sure i passed on misinformation

now, you made a broad statement that was inaccurate, i suggested that it wasn't quite 100% accurate and offered some examples of how misinformation gets passed on..

so whats your problem?

Posted by EmElle: 

Posted by Patrick Walberg: 
I respect the work of professional MU artist and miss my personal favorite MU since she moved to Las Vegas where she is going to school to further advance her career! It's costing her $6,000 but she will be certified by one of the best MU artist schools in the USA.

I've heard of most makeup schools in North America, but I know of none in Las Vegas.  What's the name of it?  Do they have a site on the web?

Most makeup schools don't even cost that much, unless she's going for the full meal deal - beauty, character, and/or SFX.  There are several decent to really good schools in L.A.  It's seems she would have been better off there.

She is going to Euphoria Institute near Las Vegas. The website is http://www.EuphoriaInstitute.com  Tutition is $9,000 but she will be able to do so many things and also will be certified.

Posted by DreamPretty: 
Siskiyou Digital Imaging Make-Up Rules:

1) Fingernails painted red!
2) Very light eye makeup very little eyeliner!
3) Powder!!! Shine is not cool in photos!
4) Blush is needed, but not too much
5) Red lipstick, browns and darks don't work well! Lip gloss or lighter lipstick is acceptable depending on the clothes.
6) Get rid of those undereye circles and save time Photoshopping!
7) Learn the contours of your face and apply bronzing powder and highlights accordingly. My jaw is somewhat weak for example so I put blush underneath my jaw to bring out the lines a bit.

If you want any one-one-one lessons, come visit me in Siskiyou and I will be happy to show you free of charge. I sell The Body Shop make-up and body products, and I recommend them highly. Email me if you want to buy some!

For what kind of shoot are these rules for?

Red nails????????  No, buffed manicured nails, clear polish, or french manicure, unless the shoot specifically requires something else.

Eyes - depends on the model and the look required for the shoot.  There is no catch all for this.

Shine - if the look is matte, then keeping matte is best.  Shine or shimmer may be acceptable, depending on the concept of the shoot, and won't look bad if in context and properly done.

Blush - agreed, unless it's a retro concept shoot, or B/W.

Lipstick - red, only when the look requires it.  Otherwise something soft and natural is generally good.

Undereye circles - Agreed.

Contouring (et al) - Bronzing isn't always necessary or even called for.  Contouring should be done with colors that recede, some blush colors don't recede.

The products you're selling - what's the pigment like?  Strong?  Light?  Wearability... does it hold up under various circumstances?  Do you get flashback?  Does create the smooth skin look when required?  Do the colors photograph true?

Those rules are hardly a catch all for most shoots, and I've never heard a professional artist using The Body Shop products in their kit.  Maybe one or two items, but certainly not a kit filled with it.

Posted by EmElle: 

Posted by DreamPretty: 
Siskiyou Digital Imaging Make-Up Rules:

1) Fingernails painted red!
2) Very light eye makeup very little eyeliner!
3) Powder!!! Shine is not cool in photos!
4) Blush is needed, but not too much
5) Red lipstick, browns and darks don't work well! Lip gloss or lighter lipstick is acceptable depending on the clothes.
6) Get rid of those undereye circles and save time Photoshopping!
7) Learn the contours of your face and apply bronzing powder and highlights accordingly. My jaw is somewhat weak for example so I put blush underneath my jaw to bring out the lines a bit.

If you want any one-one-one lessons, come visit me in Siskiyou and I will be happy to show you free of charge. I sell The Body Shop make-up and body products, and I recommend them highly. Email me if you want to buy some!

For what kind of shoot are these rules for?

Red nails????????  No, buffed manicured nails, clear polish, or french manicure, unless the shoot specifically requires something else.

Eyes - depends on the model and the look required for the shoot.  There is no catch all for this.

Shine - if the look is matte, then keeping matte is best.  Shine or shimmer may be acceptable, depending on the concept of the shoot, and won't look bad if in context and properly done.

Blush - agreed, unless it's a retro concept shoot, or B/W.

Lipstick - red, only when the look requires it.  Otherwise something soft and natural is generally good.

Undereye circles - Agreed.

Contouring (et al) - Bronzing isn't always necessary or even called for.  Contouring should be done with colors that recede, some blush colors don't recede.

The products you're selling - what's the pigment like?  Strong?  Light?  Wearability... does it hold up under various circumstances?  Do you get flashback?  Does create the smooth skin look when required?  Do the colors photograph true?

Those rules are hardly a catch all for most shoots, and I've never heard a professional artist using The Body Shop products in their kit.  Maybe one or two items, but certainly not a kit filled with it.

EmElle, you seem to know everything. Your attitiude is such that you beleive you know what the photographer, model and client are looking for without even knowing the details of what the shoot is for. Why not just let you shoot the pictures and model too since you know more than the model and photographer? If you gave me that "attitude" at a shoot, I'd smile and hand you the camera as I walked out the door.

Posted by Patrick Walberg: 
EmElle, you seem to know everything. Your attitiude is such that you beleive you know what the photographer, model and client are looking for without even knowing the details of what the shoot is for. Why not just let you shoot the pictures and model too since you know more than the model and photographer? If you gave me that "attitude" at a shoot, I'd smile and hand you the camera as I walked out the door. 

i didn't have anything nice to say..so im keeping quiet..

Posted by Patrick Walberg: 
She is going to Euphoria Institute near Las Vegas. The website is http://www.EuphoriaInstitute.com  Tutition is $9,000 but she will be able to do so many things and also will be certified.

Okay, she's attending a cosmetology school.  This will only get her qualified for the Nevada state board exam.  She won't be certified, but if she passes the exam, she'll be licensed... in Nevada.  Sounds like she isn't planning on coming back to CA, because the license is not transferable without another exam at least.  That's if the hours this school teaches are the same or more than CA state board rules require.  If not, she'll have to attend more classes here to qualify.  I'm not sure why she wouldn't attend school here if she was planning on coming back to work here.

Btw, certification means nothing.  All it means is that you paid money and attended a class.  Many times, it doesn't even mean you passed it.  Any artist claiming to be certified still may not be skilled.

Through this school, the only thing she's going to learn about makeup is civilian wear - salon makeup for day, evening, prom, bridal, if she's even that lucky.  My school didn't even go that detailed.

Posted by EmElle: 

Posted by Patrick Walberg: 
She is going to Euphoria Institute near Las Vegas. The website is http://www.EuphoriaInstitute.com  Tutition is $9,000 but she will be able to do so many things and also will be certified.

Okay, she's attending a cosmetology school.  This will only get her qualified for the Nevada state board exam.  She won't be certified, but if she passes the exam, she'll be licensed... in Nevada.  Sounds like she isn't planning on coming back to CA, because the license is not transferable without another exam at least.  That's if the hours this school teaches are the same or more than CA state board rules require.  If not, she'll have to attend more classes here to qualify.  I'm not sure why she wouldn't attend school here if she was planning on coming back to work here.

Btw, certification means nothing.  All it means is that you paid money and attended a class.  Many times, it doesn't even mean you passed it.  Any artist claiming to be certified still may not be skilled.

Through this school, the only thing she's going to learn about makeup is civilian wear - salon makeup for day, evening, prom, bridal, if she's even that lucky.  My school didn't even go that detailed.

Her name is Danielle, and she has been doing make up since she was a teenager performing on stage as a singer/songwriter. She has done stage, photo, and nightclub style make overs of other models for me for years. She is GOOD without going to the school. She just wants to do it so she has more on her resume. You are right about one thing, a person can be good at doing make up regardless of their education or if they work at a retail MU counter. Each person is different! She is "lucky" because she has a good attitude too!

Posted by Patrick Walberg: 
EmElle, you seem to know everything. Your attitiude is such that you beleive you know what the photographer, model and client are looking for without even knowing the details of what the shoot is for. Why not just let you shoot the pictures and model too since you know more than the model and photographer? If you gave me that "attitude" at a shoot, I'd smile and hand you the camera as I walked out the door. 

I've been in this business my entire life in one aspect or another.  I've lived all over the country, I've worked in various cities around the country, I've met with people in all aspects of the business, and I've done my research.  I'm not "just" a makeup artist.  I do know far more than that.  It's my job to know more than just makeup, so that I can understand the clients and the photographers (the models and stylists too!) when I talk to them and get integrated into the project.  Everyone should know at least some of what else goes on so they don't get that attitude of "that's not my job description".

As to how I work on a shoot, I am very team oriented.  If the client comes in with a firm idea on how the look should be, I create that look.  If there's room for creative input, I make suggestions.  On a creative shoot, I absolutely offer input.  But I've been around the block a bit over the last 10 years, I've worked with a wide variety of people and on a wide variety of shoots.  If there is something I don't know, I shut up and let others take over.  If a reflector needs to be held, I'll do it.

Tell me how red lipstick and nails are the norm for a shoot?

Posted by EmElle: 
Okay, she's attending a cosmetology school.  This will only get her qualified for the Nevada state board exam.  She won't be certified, but if she passes the exam, she'll be licensed... in Nevada. 

There are, unfortunately, a lot of people running around doing this without license.  We have the same issue in the management business.  Example: Net-Model.Com (for instance) lists 40+ "agencies" in the State of Texas.  One of the 40 listed holds a license.  The others?  Criminals, I suppose.  I've seen the same thing with MUA's.

Posted by EmElle: 
For what kind of shoot are these rules for?

Red nails????????  No, buffed manicured nails, clear polish, or french manicure, unless the shoot specifically requires something else.

Eyes - depends on the model and the look required for the shoot.  There is no catch all for this.

Shine - if the look is matte, then keeping matte is best.  Shine or shimmer may be acceptable, depending on the concept of the shoot, and won't look bad if in context and properly done.

Blush - agreed, unless it's a retro concept shoot, or B/W.

Lipstick - red, only when the look requires it.  Otherwise something soft and natural is generally good.

Undereye circles - Agreed.

Contouring (et al) - Bronzing isn't always necessary or even called for.  Contouring should be done with colors that recede, some blush colors don't recede.

The products you're selling - what's the pigment like?  Strong?  Light?  Wearability... does it hold up under various circumstances?  Do you get flashback?  Does create the smooth skin look when required?  Do the colors photograph true?

Those rules are hardly a catch all for most shoots, and I've never heard a professional artist using The Body Shop products in their kit.  Maybe one or two items, but certainly not a kit filled with it.

Posted by Austin Models & Talent Agency: 

There are, unfortunately, a lot of people running around doing this without license.  We have the same issue in the management business.  Example: Net-Model.Com (for instance) lists 40+ "agencies" in the State of Texas.  One of the 40 listed holds a license.  The others?  Criminals, I suppose.  I've seen the same thing with MUA's.

After viewing some work from "licensed" professionals here, I would say their work is criminal as well.

Posted by Austin Models & Talent Agency: 
There are, unfortunately, a lot of people running around doing this without license.  We have the same issue in the management business.  Example: Net-Model.Com (for instance) lists 40+ "agencies" in the State of Texas.  One of the 40 listed holds a license.  The others?  Criminals, I suppose.  I've seen the same thing with MUA's.

I can't comment on licensed agencies.  I believe that's a state by state thing, not sure.  Especially with NYC and that there are no "agencies" thing, it confuses me.

However, licensed makeup artists... that's something I've actually been researching lately.  In some states, no license is required AT ALL.  In NY, a license is required no matter what end of the makeup spectrum they're in.  It's not (currently) enforced, however.  CA, NJ, and a goodly number of other states require a license in a salon, or in other civilian work - unless working as a line rep and not charging for services.  (I'm really not sure how MAC can charge for doing makeup in those states.)  There is an entertainment exemption that says that if the artist is working in the tv/film and print industry, they do not have to be licensed.  Then, it's up to the union locals and artist agencies to require the license or not.  (Many union locals do, the agencies typically do not.)

I certainly hope that all artists receive some sort of training for sanitation, and unfortunately there are quite a few who aren't practicing safe makeup!  Getting a license in estethics (or cosmetology) guarantees that the artist has at least learned sanitation, and since it's drummed in repeatedly, daily, there's a fair bet they are automatically being sanitary.

Posted by EmElle: 

Posted by Patrick Walberg: 
EmElle, you seem to know everything. Your attitiude is such that you beleive you know what the photographer, model and client are looking for without even knowing the details of what the shoot is for. Why not just let you shoot the pictures and model too since you know more than the model and photographer? If you gave me that "attitude" at a shoot, I'd smile and hand you the camera as I walked out the door. 

I've been in this business my entire life in one aspect or another.  I've lived all over the country, I've worked in various cities around the country, I've met with people in all aspects of the business, and I've done my research.  I'm not "just" a makeup artist.  I do know far more than that.  It's my job to know more than just makeup, so that I can understand the clients and the photographers (the models and stylists too!) when I talk to them and get integrated into the project.  Everyone should know at least some of what else goes on so they don't get that attitude of "that's not my job description".

As to how I work on a shoot, I am very team oriented.  If the client comes in with a firm idea on how the look should be, I create that look.  If there's room for creative input, I make suggestions.  On a creative shoot, I absolutely offer input.  But I've been around the block a bit over the last 10 years, I've worked with a wide variety of people and on a wide variety of shoots.  If there is something I don't know, I shut up and let others take over.  If a reflector needs to be held, I'll do it.

Tell me how red lipstick and nails are the norm for a shoot?

Since you say that you have been in this business your entire life, I take it that you were born "in this business?" Hmmm ... I suppose I could say the same for myself since I did lots of art work while I was 5 years old, and started writing my own poems shortly after ... so we are "born" artists then, eh?

It does not matter where you've been or who you know as long as you do good work. Getting the job done that you are asked to do is also important. You do not tell the photographer or client how the make up must be done, you listen and find out what it is that needs to be done. If you "assume" you know, then you make an ass out of yourself!

I constantly am doing research! Reading, and learning are ingrained into me since I grew up in a family of teachers. Certainly I agree with you that it helps to learn all aspects of any business you are in! So you should have no problem with helping a model who was asking for "makeup advice" .. right?

So it seems that Ms Keala has asked photographers on the islands asking her to do her make up.  Also it is not her responsibility to "hire" a make up artist, it is up to the photographer. It is not your problem, but it is too bad that if you are not able to "be there" if you as talented as you say you are. By putting a negative spin on all MU Artists who happen to work at retail product counters, you are not helping her any.

Team work is an absolute must for me! Ask David Bang and KC ... two photographers I invited from the Bay Area to use my studio. That night we had three experienced photographers (including myself), an assistant photographer, three models and a MU Artist in my studio. I didn't shoot a single frame myself, I was too busy being a "team player!"

I have been admiring the work of Hugh Jorgen and Dreampretty of  Siskiyou Digital Imaging for quite some time now. They have some great images working together and if Dream says "red lipstick and nails are the norm" for their shoots, then so be it! It's their work not yours!  Everyone has their opinion, including you and me. If we didn't disagree and break a few "rules" ... this World would be boring as all hell!

I learn something new everyday because I sincerely believe that the day I think I know everything is the day I have died! LOL

Posted by Austin Models & Talent Agency: 

Posted by EmElle: 
Okay, she's attending a cosmetology school.  This will only get her qualified for the Nevada state board exam.  She won't be certified, but if she passes the exam, she'll be licensed... in Nevada. 

There are, unfortunately, a lot of people running around doing this without license.  We have the same issue in the management business.  Example: Net-Model.Com (for instance) lists 40+ "agencies" in the State of Texas.  One of the 40 listed holds a license.  The others?  Criminals, I suppose.  I've seen the same thing with MUA's.

Yes, Jeff .. I agree with you. There are some individuals who are very good at MU but do not have a license of schooling of any formal nature. My friend is one such person who is good, but wants to have the certificate from this school. Depending on which program she goes with it, she could be on a set in Hollywood doing MU and/or styling, or she can be qualified to work in a derma logical office. Either way she will be highly qualified for her position.

As I said before, some models have allergies to certain MU and a qualified MUA knows what to do if there is a bad reaction.

Posted by W. Herb Clark: 

Posted by Austin Models & Talent Agency: 

There are, unfortunately, a lot of people running around doing this without license.  We have the same issue in the management business.  Example: Net-Model.Com (for instance) lists 40+ "agencies" in the State of Texas.  One of the 40 listed holds a license.  The others?  Criminals, I suppose.  I've seen the same thing with MUA's.

After viewing some work from "licensed" professionals here, I would say their work is criminal as well.

ROFLMAO!  Well sir, the same might be said for a few of the so called "photographers" listed on here! (No, I don't mean you!)

OK, we are talking about "art" so even when we might think there "ought to be a law" ... gotta give them a pass for "artistic license" .... umm am I right?

Posted by EmElle: 
Back to the original poster.

You wanted makeup tips.  You may find helpful information here, Mary's Q&A page.  She's got a model prep sheet.  Not all the prepping will be appropriate for all shoots, but if you can find out details about the shoot, you can be better prepared.  http://www.themakeupartist.com/portfolios/qa.php  There's a Word and PDF version of the Model Shoot Suggestions.

I agree that the shots you just posted are not good.  The makeup is not good.  I have no idea where these "professionals" came from.  However, I have worked in similar settings, and when the photographer has a great many faces to do in a day, there's no time for him to get individual and creative with each model.  The shots become cookie cutter, which does the model no good.  There's no chance at building a relationship between the model, photographer, and the camera.  That's just the nature of portfolio mill operations, like this one.  I am guessing that he probably is a better photographer removed from a job like this, where he has time to devote to the model.

As to the makeup artist, she make also have been in cookie cutter mode.  Do you recall how much time she was given for each face?  She may also have been told by whoever hired her that soft, natural makeup was what they wanted on everyone.  She may have been following directions.  There's no time to do anything else.  That said, she could have been better.  To know for sure, I'd have to see other work she's done.

What she missed was not even necessarily making you more than unitonal (the all one color you mentioned before), but she missed any depth.  I have found it critical in shots to not make the model a 2d object in a 2d format.  Always go for the depth.  Make the model come alive.  There are a lot of artists who don't do this, and they don't know to do this.

Many artists look at makeup like a painter looks at a canvas.  This isn't always wrong, depends on the artist.  If they are good at finding the lights and shadows on a canvas, they should approach the face the same way and be fine.  Me, however, I look at makeup like sculpting.  I have a 3d object in front of me, and that helps me find the lights and shadows better than thinking of a 2d object.

I'm sorry you wasted your money on this.  However, if you had no other photos at the time, then they'd be good enough to attract better testing possibilities, and grow from there.  Not a complete waste, as the portfolio is ever evolving anyway, but certainly not at all the best start, as you have noted.

BRAVO BRAVO! "Agreed!" I can not argue with you on any of these points!