Model
Kara A
Posts: 103
Willingboro, New Jersey, US
sorry posted with wrong name!! i fixed just scroll down, Im hair by kara!!
*edit* this is what hair by kara wrote:
In a previous thread, I asked mm'ers to critique my port, stating why or why they woudent want to work with me. The most common responce I got for why they wouldn't want to work with me was due to a " lack of diversity" in my port. Oddly enought, my port does include black, hispanic and indian models. Now granted, I would like to include all ethincity's in my port, I style hair for all people and would like to showcase that here on mm. One big reason for my joning is to find new models specificly white, asian and hispanic. My question is, from my observances here on the mm forums, I don't think I have ever seen any tell a photograper, hairstylist or mua who has all white models in there port that they needed to add some diversity. Why is that? Is it only the ports that lack white models that need diversity or should all ports show that they cater to all races? Is it just me or is there a double standerd here?
Photographer
ASG Imaging
Posts: 206
San Francisco, California, US
What kind of "diversity" are you talking about?
Hair Stylist
Hair by Kara
Posts: 304
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
In a previous thread, I asked mm'ers to critique my port, stating why or why they woudent want to work with me. The most common responce I got for why they wouldn't want to work with me was due to a " lack of diversity" in my port. Oddly enought, my port does include black, hispanic and indian models. Now granted, I would like to include all ethincity's in my port, I style hair for all people and would like to showcase that here on mm. One big reason for my joning is to find new models specificly white, asian and hispanic. My question is, from my observances here on the mm forums, I don't think I have ever seen any tell a photograper, hairstylist or mua who has all white models in there port that they needed to add some diversity. Why is that? Is it only the ports that lack white models that need diversity or should all ports show that they cater to all races? Is it just me or is there a double standerd here?
Model
Adieu
Posts: 6427
You didn't post anything...
Oh well, I'll comment on the subject.
Anyone can sign up for this site. MM is not to blame if there is a 'lack of diversity'.
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Model
RDawkins
Posts: 4532
Breckenridge, Colorado, US
Oh, honey pies...  The word diversity does not apply exclusively to race/ethnicity. When a photographer states you have a lack of diversity in your portfolio, she means all the shots look similar (no matter the race of the talent). So, try something new and different.
Model
Kara A
Posts: 103
Willingboro, New Jersey, US
sorry i made a mistake.!! and by mm i mean the people here not site itself!!
Makeup Artist
NdeyeFace
Posts: 317
Los Angeles, California, US
K. Holden wrote:
Oh, honey pies...
The word diversity does not apply exclusively to race/ethnicity. When a photographer states you have a lack of diversity in your portfolio, she means all the shots look similar (no matter the race of the talent).
So, try something new and different. Yeah seems to me that, that's probably what they meant.
Pies... I want some pie... apple please!
Photographer
CW Sr
Posts: 970
Columbus, Ohio, US
wow another race related thread O.o I wonder if photogs get yelled at for having all male or all female photos in their port... Quite honestly considering photography is a passionate hooby for most on this site rather than a corporate photog job I don't really see why people try and "diversify" a photog's right of style and target market. I'll shoot someone that I feel is attractive [in which ever way I see them to be attractive] other than that, I won't shoot you. Let's flip it, models you have to shoot with a photog of each different race so that you can be considered... diversified *^* l a m e
Model
RDawkins
Posts: 4532
Breckenridge, Colorado, US
Ceana wrote:
Yeah seems to me that, that's probably what they meant.
Pies... I want some pie... apple please! Yah! A la mode. Damn, let's go.
Hair Stylist
Hair by Kara
Posts: 304
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
K. Holden wrote:
Oh, honey pies...
The word diversity does not apply exclusively to race/ethnicity. When a photographer states you have a lack of diversity in your portfolio, she means all the shots look similar (no matter the race of the talent).
So, try something new and different. well maybe i sould have titled it diferently cuz they defenatly meant race.
Photographer
CW Sr
Posts: 970
Columbus, Ohio, US
K. Holden wrote:
Oh, honey pies...
The word diversity does not apply exclusively to race/ethnicity. When a photographer states you have a lack of diversity in your portfolio, she means all the shots look similar (no matter the race of the talent).
So, try something new and different. haha oh honey pies its just easier for people to fall back on a race issue if they have race issues with themselves... most people without that complex don't assume its about race but what it actually really means and that's what you said; a difference in style, genre, and such of photography. Don't worry , most of us get it
Hair Stylist
Hair by Kara
Posts: 304
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Im sure they meant race, they said no i woudent work with you beacuse you dont have a single blonde in your port or no you i wouldnt work with you beacuse you only do black hair. Thats not my issure, I would like to add more to my port, my question is why is it not a problem when someone has only white models in there port?
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Considering a majority of the models on this site and the industry are caucasian, it would make sense to show that you could work with caucasian models. That could be what they were saying. You can't read too deep into everything.
Photographer
CW Sr
Posts: 970
Columbus, Ohio, US
Hair by Kara wrote:
well maybe i sould have titled it diferently cuz they defenatly meant race. Yes, being specific in a thread always helps. Maybe you have an issue with a certain photog her may or may not have meant race specifically... but in general when the term diverse is used it means different styles of shooting. I'm sorry that the race issue still applies to some people, best bet is to move on and not associate with people of that sort.
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8619
Berkeley, California, US
Hair by Kara wrote:
Im sure they meant race, they said no i woudent work with you beacuse you dont have a single blonde in your port or no you i wouldnt work with you beacuse you only do black hair. Thats not my issure, I would like to add more to my port, my question is why is it not a problem when someone has only white models in there port? People do get shit for only having "white" [Mainly Europeans I guess] models in their ports. I actually have seen it more than people getting shit for having any other "race" [non-existant] only.
It's all bullshit.
Photographer
richard boswell
Posts: 1790
New York, New York, US
depends on who's hair i would be having you do. if you have no examples of a hair type in your book, i would have no proof of your experience with it. that would probably lead me to not consider you for that type of hair. it would not effect my hiring you for hair types that you have in your book, unless it was a mixed hair type job. no offense intended. the same would apply to makeup, you get what you show. rich Hair by Kara wrote:
Im sure they meant race, they said no i woudent work with you beacuse you dont have a single blonde in your port or no you i wouldnt work with you beacuse you only do black hair. Thats not my issure, I would like to add more to my port, my question is why is it not a problem when someone has only white models in there port?
Photographer
CW Sr
Posts: 970
Columbus, Ohio, US
Wynd Mulysa wrote:
It's all bullshit. Indeed it is
Hair Stylist
Hair by Kara
Posts: 304
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
richard boswell wrote:
depends on who's hair i would be having you do.
if you have no examples of a hair type in your book,
i would have no proof of your experience with it.
that would probably lead me to not consider you for that
type of hair.
it would not effect my hiring you for hair types that you have in your book,
unless it was a mixed hair type job. no offense intended.
the same would apply to makeup, you get what you show.
rich
very true. I know I ask this question mainly beacuse I know me personally, I am in need of a good mua in my area. I am a darkskin african american and its slim to non of us in the ports of the muas ( in my area) on mm. its fustraing to say the least. thats why I say everyone should branch. not just the ones who are missing whites in there books.
Makeup Artist
NdeyeFace
Posts: 317
Los Angeles, California, US
Hair by Kara wrote:
Im sure they meant race, they said no i woudent work with you beacuse you dont have a single blonde in your port or no you i wouldnt work with you beacuse you only do black hair. Thats not my issure, I would like to add more to my port, my question is why is it not a problem when someone has only white models in there port? Well, you should not worry about whether or not they do or don't say it to someone else. It's all about presentation and what you want people to see, and who you want to cater to.
If there is nothing out there to prove that you can style whoever whenever then they might pass. All about demand. Like someone said if the majority of that photographers work is with a certain "target market" and there is nothing that shows in what you have. Then of course you won't be a good resource to them. Supply and demand...
Think of the word diversity=range.
Your range of work. Same with MUA.
If I don't see a range of work that meets my depend then I pass or ask to see more work. That way... I don't get "hosed" lol muhahaha
K. Holden wrote:
Yah! A la mode. Damn, let's go. Hey where are we getting pie from?!
Photographer
Lorin A Edmonds
Posts: 1181
Eugene, Oregon, US
Yes, I think you need blonds etc.
Your work is professional etc.
As a multirace, I know the problem.
I knew of a famous photographer who lost a national account for hotdogs because he only has a shot of a hamburger in his book.
I lost a wedding because the bride did not think I could shoot a wedding of a Indian from India because he was dark.
I would have two books -- or two web pages - each slanted differently.
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8619
Berkeley, California, US
Hair by Kara wrote:
very true. I know I ask this question mainly beacuse I know me personally, I am in need of a good mua in my area. I am a darkskin african american and its slim to non of us in the ports of the muas ( in my area) on mm. its fustraing to say the least. thats why I say everyone should branch. not just the ones who are missing whites in there books. But I would think with hairstyling it's different, isn't it? A person of African desent has different hair than a person of Asian desent and a person of Asian desent has different hair than a person of Irish desent.
There are many hair salons that specialize only in Arican Americans in my area.
Do what you are good at and comfortable doing.
Model
Kara A
Posts: 103
Willingboro, New Jersey, US
Photographer
IrisSwope
Posts: 14857
Dallas, Texas, US
I would say that they didn't mean race. Usually when people say lack of diversity, they're not talking about race.... (in terms of portfolios)
But I just looked at your port. And... Maybe they did mean race. Honestly your port looks like pages out of a hair magazine, which you would think would be a good thing....
Except for the same reason that makeup artists overdone makeup portfolios don't aren't impressive (to me)... They need tons of natural looks, and different photographers, models, and looks... Hair stylists need the same thing. Natural looks, some fashiony looks, and different photographers.... The point of your port *i think* is to show how the hair would look under different circumstances, not just the hair...
Though your port would look great for a salon...just not for MM....
Hair Stylist
Hair by Kara
Posts: 304
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Wynd Mulysa wrote:
But I would think with hairstyling it's different, isn't it? A person of African desent has different hair than a person of Asian desent and a person of Asian desent has different hair than a person of Irish desent.
There are many hair salons that specialize only in Arican Americans in my area.
Do what you are good at and comfortable doing. its acutually not too different. I have even had mua's who are experianced with african americans make me look quite clownish beacuse they are usend to working with ones with lighter skin. You have to know what your doing either way.
As for hair comfort I am fine at both ends. I just switched from a african american salon to a caucasion salon about 8 months ago. As you really cant see from my port, its now pretty rare that I even get to work on an african american client. That again is one of the reasons that i am dieing to get some shoots that show my curent work. (*****  lookin for models ****)
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8619
Berkeley, California, US
Hair by Kara wrote:
its acutually not too different. I have even had mua's who are experianced with african americans make me look quite clownish beacuse they are usend to working with ones with lighter skin. You have to know what your doing either way.
As for hair comfort I am fine at both ends. I just switched from a african american salon to a caucasion salon about 8 months ago. As you really cant see from my port, its now pretty rare that I even get to work on an african american client. That again is one of the reasons that i am dieing to get some shoots that show my curent work. (***** lookin for models ****) Good luck!
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Iris Swope wrote:
I would say that they didn't mean race. Usually when people say lack of diversity, they're not talking about race.... (in terms of portfolios)
But I just looked at your port. And... Maybe they did mean race. Honestly your port looks like pages out of a hair magazine, which you would think would be a good thing....
Except for the same reason that makeup artists overdone makeup portfolios don't aren't impressive (to me)... They need tons of natural looks, and different photographers, models, and looks... Hair stylists need the same thing. Natural looks, some fashiony looks, and different photographers.... The point of your port *i think* is to show how the hair would look under different circumstances, not just the hair...
Though your port would look great for a salon...just not for MM.... I agree.... it's not a fashion hairstylists port. Like I said before, don't look too deep into things. The photographers were right. Your port isn't very diversified and it could affect you getting work.
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
Perfection wrote:
sorry posted with wrong name!! i fixed just scroll down, Im hair by kara!!
*edit* this is what hair by kara wrote:
In a previous thread, I asked mm'ers to critique my port, stating why or why they woudent want to work with me. The most common responce I got for why they wouldn't want to work with me was due to a " lack of diversity" in my port. Oddly enought, my port does include black, hispanic and indian models. Now granted, I would like to include all ethincity's in my port, I style hair for all people and would like to showcase that here on mm. One big reason for my joning is to find new models specificly white, asian and hispanic. My question is, from my observances here on the mm forums, I don't think I have ever seen any tell a photograper, hairstylist or mua who has all white models in there port that they needed to add some diversity. Why is that? Is it only the ports that lack white models that need diversity or should all ports show that they cater to all races? Is it just me or is there a double standerd here? maybe it takes a while. WHen I started, my first few models were import models. This kept getting me attention from Asians. I was shooting for a year (only about 1 to 2 models a month) before I landed my first non-Asian. In the last year, I've gotten the diversity I want. I've got a little bit of everything now.
Hair Stylist
Hair by Kara
Posts: 304
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Iris Swope wrote:
I would say that they didn't mean race. Usually when people say lack of diversity, they're not talking about race.... (in terms of portfolios) some actual qoutes from the thread:
"I think that it is very important for you to work with (and get some portfolio grade shots) or some multi-ethnic models.... You don't have a single blonde in your port. It is clear that you can do a very credible job on African-American models.... now, expand your port...".
"I Like the fact that you already have a variety of skin tones in your port for make up. But would also like to see other races of models. This goes for hair and make up."
"I think that you are a racist."
" maybe a little more variety in the portfolio, I would like to see your work on a lighter model."
"I would like to see what she does on the on white models because thats manly what I shoot, because of the area I am in.'"
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Hair by Kara wrote:
some actual qoutes from the thread:
"I think that it is very important for you to work with (and get some portfolio grade shots) or some multi-ethnic models.... You don't have a single blonde in your port. It is clear that you can do a very credible job on African-American models.... now, expand your port...".
"I Like the fact that you already have a variety of skin tones in your port for make up. But would also like to see other races of models. This goes for hair and make up."
"I think that you are a racist."
" maybe a little more variety in the portfolio, I would like to see your work on a lighter model."
"I would like to see what she does on the on white models because thats manly what I shoot, because of the area I am in.'" Can you post the thread so that we can read the context in which the responses were made?
Hair Stylist
Hair by Kara
Posts: 304
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Lamonica wrote:
I agree.... it's not a fashion hairstylists port. Like I said before, don't look too deep into things. The photographers were right. Your port isn't very diversified and it could affect you getting work. thats what im here for! thanx
Hair Stylist
Hair by Kara
Posts: 304
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Model
A.Fox
Posts: 418
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
This has been discussed in the stylist forum. I had a very lengthy post were we spoke about MUAs who only have whites in their ports and it branched off into hair stylists as well.
It seems that you can make a living doing only white faces/hair but it is much harder to do that with only ethnic faces/hair so it doesn't get talked about as much. It is important for a MUA to know how to work on skin of all colors and display that in his/her port as well as it is for a hair stylist to know how to work on all textures of hair and display that in his/her port.
Photographer
IrisSwope
Posts: 14857
Dallas, Texas, US
Hair by Kara wrote:
some actual qoutes from the thread:
"I think that it is very important for you to work with (and get some portfolio grade shots) or some multi-ethnic models.... You don't have a single blonde in your port. It is clear that you can do a very credible job on African-American models.... now, expand your port...".
Actually, looking at it, I have one white model, and one asian model. Hmm, I need more models...
"I Like the fact that you already have a variety of skin tones in your port for make up. But would also like to see other races of models. This goes for hair and make up."
"I think that you are a racist."
" maybe a little more variety in the portfolio, I would like to see your work on a lighter model."
"I would like to see what she does on the on white models because thats manly what I shoot, because of the area I am in.'" yeah...read farther down in my post
but still...it's not just the models, its the photographers also... Its more of a salon portfolio than a fashion hairstylist portfolio...
But you obviously know how to style hair...
My portfolios was full of black\mixed girls for months, and no one ever told me to use white models...I don't think they cared.
Hair Stylist
Hair by Kara
Posts: 304
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
now rember this is not a criticique of my port. the qestion at hand was is it fair to ask for ethinic diveristy in a port lacking white models and not ask the same of a port that has only white models?
Photographer
Merlyn Magic Photo
Posts: 4361
Long Beach, California, US
Christopher Hartman wrote:
maybe it takes a while. WHen I started, my first few models were import models. This kept getting me attention from Asians. I was shooting for a year (only about 1 to 2 models a month) before I landed my first non-Asian. In the last year, I've gotten the diversity I want. I've got a little bit of everything now. Yeah, Chris, I remember teasing you about the "only shooting with asians" back when you started. You did good work then, even better now [regardless of the race of the model]
Just to keep on thread, my Dad was a stylist for many years [and MUA] and teaching in schools in three states. He would do the shows on the East coast and up into Canada, working on many different models' hair with all races represented at various times. He would say that the processing of the hair [chemical or physical] had more to do with how you worked with it than the racial characteristics.
Hair Stylist
Hair by Kara
Posts: 304
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
Iris Swope wrote:
yeah...read farther down in my post
but still...it's not just the models, its the photographers also... Its more of a salon portfolio than a fashion hairstylist portfolio...
But you obviously know how to style hair...
My portfolios was full of black\mixed girls for months, and no one ever told me to use white models...I don't think they cared. I do understand. That was just show ( not just to you) that in my instance they clearly ment race. I am working to add more fashion looks to my port curently.
Photographer
IrisSwope
Posts: 14857
Dallas, Texas, US
Hair by Kara wrote:
now rember this is not a criticique of my port. the qestion at hand was is it fair to ask for ethinic diveristy in a port lacking white models and not ask the same of a port that has only white models? *personal opinion, worth nothing*
TV shows with predominately caucasions are just regular shows...
TV shows that are predominately african-american are black shows...
Showing only african american models, makes you stand out, and look like an african-american stylist.
Showing all white models, is the norm...
Model
A.Fox
Posts: 418
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Iris Swope wrote:
*personal opinion, worth nothing*
TV shows with predominately caucasions are just regular shows...
TV shows that are predominately african-american are black shows...
Showing only african american models, makes you stand out, and look like an african-american stylist.
Showing all white models, is the norm... Nail. Head.
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