Kaitlin Lara wrote:
I'm totally not trying to be a bitch...I just think it's funny...you talk about yourself more than ANYONE I've ever seen on MM...lol

You should see what happens when he gets a model to ride his little escort!

Kaitlin Lara wrote:
Models, if you're bringing an escort, I'm sure you're way more likely to blow off all the other things you should be doing to ensure your safety...I know I did when I didn't know better.

I think the whole escort bit is something to be discussed between the photog and the model working togethor.

But on the subject of this thread: things you should be doing regardless is
A) check references and all

but B) most importantly: let your family/friends or whoever know where you are going, who is the photographer, his email address, company name, hell even text his license plate number to someone if ya have too. And of course let them know when you are due to be back.

StudioMona wrote:

Freak Out

don't Try to tell me what I shouldn't do
You should know by now,
I won't listen to you
Walk around with my hands up in the air
Cause I don't care

Cause I'm alright, I'm fine

Just freak out, let it go
I'm gonna live my life
I can't ever run and hide
I won't compromise
Cause I'll never know
I'm gonna close my eyes
I can't watch the time go by
I won't keep it inside
Freak out, let it go
Just freak out, let it go

You don't always have to do everything right
Stand up for yourself
And put up a fight
walk around with your hands up in the air
Like you don't care

Cause I'm alright, I'm fine

Just freak out, let it go
I'm gonna live my life
I can't ever run and hide
I won't compromise
Cause I'll never know
I'm gonna close my eyes
I can't watch the time go by
I won't keep it inside
Freak out, let it go

On my own
Let it go
Yeah, yeah, yeah

Just let me live my life
I can't ever run and hide
I won't compromise
Cause I'll never know
I'm gonna close my eyes
I can't watch the time go by
I won't keep it inside
Freak out, let it go

Gonna freak out, let it go
Gonna freak out, let it go



or maybe this one

Aaahh Freak out!
Le Freak, C'est Chic
Freak out!
Aaahh Freak out!
Le Freak, C'est Chic
Freak out!
Aaahh Freak out!
Le Freak, C'est Chic
Freak out!
Aaahh Freak out!
Le Freak, C'est Chic
Freak out!

Have you heard about the new dance craze?
Listen to us, I'm sure you'll be amazed
Big fun to be had by everyone
It's up to you, It surely can be done
Young and old are doing it, I'm told
Just one try, and you too will be sold
It's called Le Freak! They're doing it night and day
Allow us, we'll show you the way

(chorus)

All that pressure got you down
Has your head spinning all around
Feel the rhythm, check the ride
Come on along and have a real good time
Like the days of stopping at the Savoy
Now we freak, oh what a joy
Just come on down, two fifty four
Find a spot out on the floor

(chorus)

Now Freak!
I said Freak!
Now Freak!

All that pressure got you down
Has your head spinning all around
Feel the rhythm, check the ride
Come on along and have a real good time
Like the days of stopping at the Savoy
Now we freak, oh what a joy
Just come on down, two fifty four
Find a spot out on the floor

Aaahh Freak out!
Le Freak, C'est Chic
Freak out!
Aaahh Freak out!
Le Freak, C'est Chic
Freak out!
Aaahh Freak out!
Le Freak, C'est Chic
Freak out!
Aaahh Freak out!
Le Freak, C'est Chic
Freak out!


And Frank Zappa said: Who could imagine they'd freak out in Minnesota.

It's not like I didn't live in San Francisco Marina District for seven years... Thank Gawd I didn't quite leave my heart in SFO

One of the greatest dance tunes ever! 

Doug Harvey wrote:

lol...Yep...

Doug, that is the most over used picture on this entire forum that Image K loves to drag out!

Image K wrote:
Everyone likes to point at the Linda Sobek incident, which happened 20 years ago.

It was one of 3 documented photographer/model murders in the last 20 years.

There've been exactly THREE cases in the US in the last 25 years where a guy CALLING himself a photographer killed a woman.

LOL! What makes it happend 20 years ago any different? Are you implying that danger is less likely now than it was back then?

I never even heard about this case or anything having to do with it but you just said that "There've been exactly THREE cases in the US in the last 25 years where a guy CALLING himself a photographer killed a woman" You said documented. In other words there surely could of been a thousand they just never got caught.

ANNABELLA wrote:
In other words there surely could of been a thousand they just never got caught.

Exactly!  Just like Martians.  Can't tell they're here because they're invisible and can't be caught.


And dinosaurs, in lakes. 

And rivers.

Millions of them.

Trillions.

Big ones.

Really big ones.

ANNABELLA wrote:
I never even heard about this case or anything having to do with it but you just said that "There've been exactly THREE cases in the US in the last 25 years where a guy CALLING himself a photographer killed a woman" You said documented. In other words there surely could of been a thousand they just never got caught.

Well, there could be a million "escorts" who raped and murdered their model friends and never got caught, but that's all a bunch of speculation and horseshit.  The world will never really know.  That's why we have to rely on cases that have been documented in some way. 

Speculation only really seems to serve those who are spreading fear.

LarryB wrote:
Well, there could be a million "escorts" who raped and murdered their model friends and never got caught, but that's all a bunch of speculation and horseshit.  The world will never really know.  That's why we have to rely on cases that have been documented in some way. 

Speculation only really seems to serve those who are spreading fear.

Larry, if one person is killed because of trusting the wrong person, it is tragic.  But as I keep preaching common sense, communication, and listening to gut instinct about others.  Research does not replace an escort, but if having an escort is agreed on by both photographer and model, it's more of a comfort level issue than safety issue.  There is a difference between what is comfortable and what is safe.  That is why it doesn't matter to me if you allow escorts or not.  I do for the comfort level that shows in the images. Some times it's worth it to help a model that way.  They keep coming back to me!

I would not be surprised if there is a case of a photographer being raped or killed by a model but it does not change my views one bit.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Damn straight there are too many dang escort threads! 

Thats impossible. 

If there were too many,  there would be two of many that you havent posted in.

But that would be impossible.  If they are there,  (as in they're there) (not to be confused with there there)   then you have to post.  Because you have to. Too.

My two pennies.

jonathan ledeux wrote:
Two words why a model should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use an Body Guard:"Linda Bobeck"...  Any model who does not take an escort with them is DEATH DUMB and STUPID!  Google my dear friends name and read REALITY!  I miss her so!  90% of todays photographers are scum!  So be smart and wise up girls!

LarryB wrote:
Well, there could be a million "escorts" who raped and murdered their model friends and never got caught, but that's all a bunch of speculation and horseshit.  The world will never really know.  That's why we have to rely on cases that have been documented in some way. 

Speculation only really seems to serve those who are spreading fear.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Larry, if one person is killed because of trusting the wrong person, it is tragic.  But as I keep preaching common sense, communication, and listening to gut instinct about others.  Research does not replace an escort, but if having an escort is agreed on by both photographer and model, it's more of a comfort level issue than safety issue.  There is a difference between what is comfortable and what is safe.  That is why it doesn't matter to me if you allow escorts or not.  I do for the comfort level that shows in the images. Some times it's worth it to help a model that way.  They keep coming back to me!

I would not be surprised if there is a case of a photographer being raped or killed by a model but it does not change my views one bit.

Are you responding to my post?  What you wrote has no relation to what I said.

If the escort isn't there for safety, what does it matter about people getting killed for trusting the wrong person?  What are you talking about?  Are you off your meds?

LarryB wrote:

Are you responding to my post?  What you wrote has no relation to what I said.

If the escort isn't there for safety, what does it matter about people getting killed for trusting the wrong person?  What are you talking about?  Are you off your meds?

That's been going on a lot in here...

Kaitlin Lara wrote:
Lol...really...I've only been a model for a year...but it's been my experience that some of the sanest, kindest, most down to earth people I've met have been photographers.

Wait till they get a load of me.

jack nicholson surrenders

Image K wrote:

LOL

Lamonica wrote:
Three pages and this looks like every other escrot thread on this site.... Yeah, we've accomplished a lot!

Did you actually read my original post though? It's not so much about escorts as it is about how to actually be safe. My point is that escorts are not an assurance of safety, and that you should still be doing your research. I'm not really trying to argue one way or another about whether or not escorts should be used.

Fotticelli wrote:
How about this as a solution:

Models who insist on bringing escorts don't not work with photographers who don't allow escorts.

Photographers who don't allow escorts work only with models who don't think they need to bring escorts.

Simple.

Yes!  Please put that in stone and let it be the final word.  Somehow I don't think that is going to happen.

Kaitlin Lara wrote:

The existing ones are so clogged up with arguments and drama that no one would ever read what I have to say if I did. That escorts are not an assurance of safety is something that I think is important for models to understand, and I'm sorry if it bothers people to see another escort thread, but if it helps even one model stop behaving in dangerous behavior (ie not checking references) then I don't care how many angry emails I get.

Didn't take long for THIS one to get clogged with the same drama poop. However, statistics actually differ greatly from your statement that bringing an escort is not an assurance. Wife is a realtor and two have been accosted in past six months by people coming into open houses or making appointments. Police lecturers on safety said the odds decrease by something like 80 percent of someone getting accosted when they are with ANY other person (not just bodyguard types), because they can phone for help or are at least a witness.

I'm 6'6" and 265 pounds...spent 7 years in the Marine Corps (spent enough time in gas chamber that typical defense sprays likely wouldn't stop me) and have studied martial arts...good thing I'm a nice guy, because most self defense techniques a woman could use would be pretty useless if I were a derainged assailant. Also good thing that MOST photographers are good people, but there are always a few...so why risk it if you don't have to.

Kaitlin Lara wrote:

Did you actually read my original post though? It's not so much about escorts as it is about how to actually be safe. My point is that escorts are not an assurance of safety, and that you should still be doing your research. I'm not really trying to argue one way or another about whether or not escorts should be used.

I read your initial post, yet this thread still erupted into another pro-escorts/anti-escorts thread.... Once again, not much was accomplished.

I'm currently looking for new headshots for acting. Also looking to do paid work and TFP on a very limited basis with very talented photographers. I ALWAYS bring someone with me to my shoot so if you have a problem with that, don't bother trying to reach me. I'm very professional but I like to have fun at shoots, so send me a message and let me know if you think we could work on something together! Not looking to do nude work, so if thats a problem please don't bother contacting me.

Jumbo shrimp.  Pretty ugly. 

From a 5ft5ins tall "model" profile on one of the "modeling" websites.

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

TomLaPointe wrote:

Didn't take long for THIS one to get clogged with the same drama poop. However, statistics actually differ greatly from your statement that bringing an escort is not an assurance. Wife is a realtor and two have been accosted in past six months by people coming into open houses or making appointments. Police lecturers on safety said the odds decrease by something like 80 percent of someone getting accosted when they are with ANY other person (not just bodyguard types), because they can phone for help or are at least a witness.

I'm 6'6" and 265 pounds...spent 7 years in the Marine Corps (spent enough time in gas chamber that typical defense sprays likely wouldn't stop me) and have studied martial arts...good thing I'm a nice guy, because most self defense techniques a woman could use would be pretty useless if I were a derainged assailant. Also good thing that MOST photographers are good people, but there are always a few...so why risk it if you don't have to.

Your anecdote about your realtor wife is interesting to read, however:

- realtors aren't trying to create art/photography/photographic work (which requires a special set of circumstances to be successful) with their clients, they are trying to sell or facilitate the sale of real estate and (as you well know) selling something is a delicate dance between building trust and lack of trust

- working with guns leads to the possibility of accidental discharge and possibility of death or maiming, working with large military vehicles leads to the possibility of being run over and the possibility of death or maiming, training with weaponized chemicals leads to the possibility of death or maiming, working with heavily armed soldiers can lead to the possibility of death or maiming (i.e. fragging) and yet I don't hear you calling for each Marine to show up for duty with an "escort"*

JAY carreon
PHOTOGRAPHER

*as a matter of fact, each Marine does show up for duty with an "escort" - this is called the "buddy system", and yet people still get maimed while on duty long before they even reach the battlefield

Image K wrote:
Everyone likes to point at the Linda Sobek incident, which happened 20 years ago.

It was one of 3 documented photographer/model murders in the last 20 years.

There've been exactly THREE cases in the US in the last 25 years where a guy CALLING himself a photographer killed a woman.  Two of the guys killed one woman each & were immediately caught, one guy killed a few women
Only ONE of those men was an actual photographer.
In only ONE of those cases was the guy doing anything to "trick" people, and he was picking up women in BARS 'cause all the local models thought he was creepy & wouldn't go NEAR him
That was William Bradford and ALL those Datelines & 48 Hours & whatnot have been about HIM
#1, if you go home with a guy you just met at a club for ANY reason you're STUPID.
#2, one of the women he met BROUGHT a friend as an escort, and you know what?  Bradford killed them BOTH.

In all THREE of these cases there was no internet involved and none of the women followed intelligent safety precautions

Hey sparky, you mind posting an author credit for this? 

Luminos wrote:
I can recall more cases than this in the past five years alone, and I don't even watch for such.

You can???  Here in the US?  If so, PLEASE cite them.  Image K was using a quote from me, and the three cases in the US are the William Bradford case (he killed a few victims, but he wasn't actually a photographer & none of the victims were models) 20 years ago, the Linda Sobeck case (the only one involving a known working photographer & model) about 10 years ago, and the Natal King case 2 years ago.
I've looked like hell through news archives & such & can't find more, please feel free to let me know if you can show others.

FemmeArt wrote:
It is simply degrading to have models operate under this cloud of fear and assuming that all photographers are horrible rapists/serial killers.  I just think it is ridiculous.

Go ahead, attack me--that's what some people enjoy doing in threads, right?  However, I agree with the OP and am not afraid to stand up for myself and for other photographers are tired of the B.S.

Thank you for summing up my attitude on this subject 

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Kim, I take no "sides" ... I am for what ever gets the images done.  This is about art, not some competition.  As I've said many times, there is no right or wrong on this issue.  Only differences of how we work.  Best wishes to you!

Unless the differences are with me, in which case you call me "sad"? 

Fotticelli wrote:
How about this as a solution:

Models who insist on bringing escorts don't not work with photographers who don't allow escorts.

Photographers who don't allow escorts work only with models who don't think they need to bring escorts.

Simple.

Hey, I'm PERFECTLY cool with this.  We now agree 100%>  The only reason we ever disagreed was because when you first started posting about this you were calling for boycotts of phoographers who wouldn't allow escorts & you said we were all probably dangerous 
Nice to see we now agree on how things should work.

TomLaPointe wrote:
Didn't take long for THIS one to get clogged with the same drama poop. However, statistics actually differ greatly from your statement that bringing an escort is not an assurance. Wife is a realtor and two have been accosted in past six months by people coming into open houses or making appointments. Police lecturers on safety said the odds decrease by something like 80 percent of someone getting accosted when they are with ANY other person (not just bodyguard types), because they can phone for help or are at least a witness.

I'm 6'6" and 265 pounds...spent 7 years in the Marine Corps (spent enough time in gas chamber that typical defense sprays likely wouldn't stop me) and have studied martial arts...good thing I'm a nice guy, because most self defense techniques a woman could use would be pretty useless if I were a derainged assailant. Also good thing that MOST photographers are good people, but there are always a few...so why risk it if you don't have to.

If you were a deranged assailaint who was still functional enough to create a facade as a photographer that was good enough to pass a reference check or 3 & you had the mad computer skills to run the profile & your e-mail and some exchanges with the model without leaving tracks & you had a phone number & address that were verifiable but instantly disposable (since the model would've let people know where & who she was with), you'd probably also be functional enough to kill the ESCORT too if you were determined. 
Bradford, one of the 3 killers people can think of, approached women in bars & malls & CLAIMED to be a photographer & asked women back to his place for pictures.  One asked to bring a friend, he said OK, and then killed them BOTH.
Natal King's killer creeped her out enough during the shoot (with MUA present) that she went in the bathroom & called a friend on her cell & said "I think this guyt is gonna kill me" but then STILL agreed to let the MUA leave & then got in her OWN car and followed the guy to his HOUSE for "private shots" (again via her own calls to a friend) and was then killed.
Escorts didn't help at all there, but some common sense would have.

ANNABELLA wrote:
LOL! What makes it happend 20 years ago any different? Are you implying that danger is less likely now than it was back then?

I never even heard about this case or anything having to do with it but you just said that "There've been exactly THREE cases in the US in the last 25 years where a guy CALLING himself a photographer killed a woman" You said documented. In other words there surely could of been a thousand they just never got caught.

Of course, anything is possible...

I prefer to deal with the probable..., the documented, the provable...

If you have some facts, instead of your undocumented fear, I am more than willing to hear them...

Fotticelli wrote:
How about this as a solution:

Models who insist on bringing escorts don't not work with photographers who don't allow escorts.

Photographers who don't allow escorts work only with models who don't think they need to bring escorts.

Simple.

I really don't mind this being the final word...

As long as some model with 4 cellphone shots and 4 days on MM doesn't post "I would never go without an escort because I watch CSI and Dateline, and I saw a model murdered by a photographer"

Or a photographer that posts, "I recommend every model have an escort because you just can't be too careful. You might get raped or murdered".

Comments like this perpetuate fear, smear the good name of photographers by incinuating that they have something to hide because they will not allow an escort.

Posts like this will open up the discussion all over again... 

Kaitlin Lara wrote:

Patrick Walberg wrote:
I have not had a single problem with an escort.  Nor have I had a single incident with any model flaking on me.
NOT EVEN ONCE!

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Maybe I just don't understand because I've been so successful in the past 20 years?

Patrick Walberg wrote:
I believe I have something to teach, so that is why one of the models I work with is taping me for her TV Show, Skyline Entertainment Television.  It will be available online soon.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
I must be doing something right

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Maybe I can help others deal with these issues by teaching them what I've learned through all the college classes I've had in Social Sciences?  Seriously, I took more classes in that area than any other department.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
I helped prevent one cop from advancing in his career until he got help!

I'm totally not trying to be a bitch...I just think it's funny...you talk about yourself more than ANYONE I've ever seen on MM...lol

Kaitlin Lara wrote:

Yourself included...I bet YOU check references

Is that why neither of you wanna work with me any more?

ravens laughter wrote:

Is that why neither of you wanna work with me any more?

Psh...whatever...I'm in love with your work...if your work were a person I would stalk it on a daily basis, and rape it every night. You're the one that never talks to me anymore *pout*

TomLaPointe wrote:

Didn't take long for THIS one to get clogged with the same drama poop. However, statistics actually differ greatly from your statement that bringing an escort is not an assurance. Wife is a realtor and two have been accosted in past six months by people coming into open houses or making appointments. Police lecturers on safety said the odds decrease by something like 80 percent of someone getting accosted when they are with ANY other person (not just bodyguard types), because they can phone for help or are at least a witness.

I'm 6'6" and 265 pounds...spent 7 years in the Marine Corps (spent enough time in gas chamber that typical defense sprays likely wouldn't stop me) and have studied martial arts...good thing I'm a nice guy, because most self defense techniques a woman could use would be pretty useless if I were a derainged assailant. Also good thing that MOST photographers are good people, but there are always a few...so why risk it if you don't have to.

You're talking about in general...not in the world of internet modeling, which makes your argument a completely irrelevant one. Of course people are less likely to attack you walking down the street if you have someone with you...that's harder to do...but you also can't check out random people on the street...or even random people coming to an open house. I don't recall ever saying "don't bring an escort". I said IF you bring an escort, that doesn't mean you shouldn't check references TOO.

So are you trying to argue that going to a shoot with an escort without doing your references is less dangerous than going to a shoot with an escort AND checking references? Because that's what I'm actually advocating.

Kaitlin Lara wrote:
The only times I ever had problems with photographers were when I did have an escort present.

Photographer to escort: "I'll pay you $250 to hold her down."
Escort: "Dude, I burned $50 in gas getting her here."
Photographer: "OK, $400, then."
Escort: "Deal!"

Kaitlin Lara wrote:

The existing ones are so clogged up with arguments and drama that no one would ever read what I have to say if I did. That escorts are not an assurance of safety is something that I think is important for models to understand, and I'm sorry if it bothers people to see another escort thread, but if it helps even one model stop behaving in dangerous behavior (ie not checking references) then I don't care how many angry emails I get.

Well I am fairly new to modeling and I appreciate this thread. But since I am new, when I feel it is necessary I will be bringing an escort and also checking my references ::smiles::