Photographer
Larry Brown Camera
Posts: 1081
Atlantic Beach, Florida, US
Christopher ... If you don't want escorts fine.. no problem but the insurance reason you are dishing out is full of crap! If others want to buy into that fine.
Model
NC17
Posts: 1739
Baltimore, Maryland, US
I have to ask as well why some from of waiver hasn't been mentioned.
When I go to a barn to ride, there is a sign, in pretty much every state, that says that the barn is not liable if I get hurt. Period. Many barns will also have you sign a waiver to be allowed to ride on their property.
I don't know much about laws... but why is this not an option for you for the escort?
It really does seem to be a bit of a stretch as a reason not to allow escorts under the guise that your insurance doesn't cover them. And it is also apparent that you have a vareity of insurence that won't... and that there ARE other insurence companies out there that WILL. Maybe doing some research on other companies and a possible change of policy is all that is needed to be sure that ANYONE that walks in the door for longer than five minutes is covered. This seems to be a bit paranoid... but if you're looking for problems, then I'm sure you'll find them.
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
Christopher Ambler wrote:
She's in my current avatar, actually. Also, this image https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=551356 Well there's the problem right there. I initially thought you were being paranoid about liability. From the photo of your wife I now see that she creates an unsafe work environment. If she would just stop spilling the cookie dough all over the studio floor you would minimize the risk of slip-and-fall accidents. 
Photographer
Rich Mohr
Posts: 1843
Chicago, Illinois, US
Ania.K wrote:
This thread.... like all on this topic, is just plain ridiculous. If you don't want escorts then say no escorts. Work with someone else. It's as simple as that.
Some girls feel fine going alone, and that's up to them. Personally, if I haven't already met the photographer, I'm bringing an escort. I'm one of those unfortunate models who had a "nightmare" experience when I started modeling. It's something that I found cripling, and I'll be working through for the rest of my life.
If it's an agency shoot, I'm fine alone. But otherwise, until I know the photographer. I just won't... And it doesn't help with so much hostility towards those who feel the need to bring them. It's so easy just to say no thanks.
I'm sure that 99% of the photographers on this site are cool... it's just that one percent. I guess I just got lucky that time. Ania,
The OP is obviously concerned with liability if someone gets hurt on the set. Let's think of it this way; you decide you will bring an escort to your sesson with me. Let's say during the shoot, your escort accidentally trips and hurts themselves enough to get medical attention. Who is going to pay for the medical bills? My insurance right? Or will you be gracious enough to fork over the money to pay for your escort's injuries? Think about it. This thread is about liability, nothing more. The other posts about escorts are nothing but people venting for and against them.
I personally will allow 1 escort to the shoot, no more. I have had models bring the kids and hubby along... just make for a very cramped space and way too many distractions.
Many people need to realize that running a photography business is much more than just taking the pictures...
Rich
Model
niuyf
Posts: 360
New York, New York, US
Then say no.... just say no.
It's just that simple.... just say no! There are soooo many on this site. So many photographers that are fine with it, just as many who are not. So many models are fine with it, just as many are not.
I'm signed with agencies in LA, NYC, Toronto, Milan, Tokyo... I've shot with more than a couple of photographers... many many of them online guys. And I've never heard the excuse of liability brought up before. Several of them didn't want escorts, but it was always for the same reason.... "it's just either too crowded or because it kills the model/photographer vibe." If I didn't feel comfortable with that, I just said no... no problems. There's never been hostility over it.
Photographer
STUDIOMONA PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 33697
Avon, Minnesota, US
Fiona 90 wrote:
Oh I just noticed you didnt start it -_- But you were very active in it...
Sigh I think if you search escorts on MM you'll see like 1000000000000000 topics on it...[b]I swear Tyler should just make a forum part just for it.]/b] Hey, I already brought that idea up (make an escort forum ) before.
Photographer
STUDIOMONA PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 33697
Avon, Minnesota, US
Vance wrote:
LMAO.Guess thaqt blows any chance of you just being a GWC..
Heres a thought...
Big sign
NO ESCORTS PERIOD
My insurance is the same, though even if it covered them, I still wouldnt allow escorts.
I simply dont like them...
Simple and plain..no explaination required...
It's nice to be the boss...
LOL. Hang up a big sign saying, "NO ESCORTS BEYOND THIS POINT" . teee heeeee
Photographer
Malloch
Posts: 2566
Hastings, England, United Kingdom
Ania.K wrote:
And I've never heard the excuse of liability brought up before. I have brought up this subject on a few occasions. A few years ago I contacted Lloyds of London to ask for their advice on this very matter. The answer was a resounding NO, my commercial liability insurance would not cover an escort brought along by a model. In their eyes the escort is employed by the model and the model is therefore liable for any insurance claim the escort may make. The MUA or any assistant paid by me are covered as long as I can show an invoice from them that states an industry standard payment. In the case of an escort this would have to be an invoice in line with current bodyguard services or from a security company.
Any attempt to claim by me to say the escort was part of the team without this invoice would amount to a fraudulent claim. The only way an escort would be covered would be if the escort is required by law, as in the case where the model required to be escorted by virtue of their age.
Photographer
SKPhoto
Posts: 25784
Newark, California, US
I've seen several people mention a liability waiver. Seems a like a good idea. Everyone remembers the permission slips and waiver of liability your parents signed for school outings. And the liability waivers places like sports arenas have.
However a liability waiver is only as good as the people signing them believe them to be.
In practice you cannot sign away your or another's right to reasonable safety. The waiver is only as good as the jury who decides you were negligent and then proceeds to give everything you own to the escort who just sued you.
Photographer
UIPHOTOS
Posts: 3591
Dayton, Ohio, US
Rich Mohr wrote:
Many people need to realize that running a photography business is much more than just taking the pictures...
Rich Too many people online obviously dont understand the business end of what they claim to be so business like about..
I was told by my insurance agent that if I am off on location and something happens, I am STILL liable along with the location if they had any liability in what happened.
So hobbyist or not, there are legal and liability issues that come along with this.. Either keep hoping no one sues you or get smart about how you operate..
jmc wrote:
... In their eyes the escort is employed by the model and the model is therefore liable for any insurance claim the escort may make.
...The only way an escort would be covered would be if the escort is required by law, as in the case where the model required to be escorted by virtue of their age. How many models are prepared to cover the cost of anything that happens to their escort as long as the escort is with that from the time they leave their home until they are back home, not just when the shoot starts and ends..
THAT is what they are actually taking on..
Funny when the legal system is involved, people quickly become innocent victims who didnt know any better.. Just like those here who say "probably will" and "chances are" but as the law says, ignorance is no defense..
Photographer
Ed the Healer
Posts: 2384
Addison, Alabama, US
Christopher Ambler wrote:
There have been some very interesting and impassioned arguments both for and against escorts presented on this site. Here's why I don't allow escorts anymore - those of you who insist that escorts should be allowed, I invite you to help me overcome this hurdle.
Simply put, my liability insurance does not cover them if they're not my employee or a contractor under my pay. Even in a trade shoot, the model is covered as we have a contract that specifies compensation, even if that compensation is prints. The model is a party to my business. I've specifically asked my insurance agent if the model's escort is covered, and the answer I got is, quite clearly, no. Makeup and hair artists under my pay are covered as are my assistants.
So there's your answer, and there's why I don't allow escorts: I'm not prepared to risk my business and my personal assets on the chance that an escort might slip and fall.
I'd purchase more expensive coverage that would include non-shoot personnel, but when I ask the escort to pay their pro-rata portion of that premium, they'd look at me funny, don't you think?
If you have a solution to this that doesn't involve my purchasing more liability insurance or taking the risk of paying the escort and making them a contractor, I'm all ears. Chances are your general business liability policy would cover a so called escort for more perils as they would be considered a business invitee.
However, your insurance company would probably not defend you if you got in an altercation with an escort. Based on the behavior of many escorts, an altercation is much more likely than a slip or fall.
But, it's important that we don't lose sight of the roots of the whole escort issue - fear & mistrust.
A model fears being raped or sexually assaulted and does not trust that photographers will not rape or sexually assault her so she brings someone along to protect her.
Why on God's green Earth would anyone participate in a profession in which she had a deathly fear of participating?
Photographer
JimGL
Posts: 1134
New York, New York, US
My business partner and I own two large shooting studios in NYC and our insurance policy covers anyone that walks thru the door. And of course our business is incorporated and each of us(me a photographer and him a prop stylist) are also individually incorporated.
And as far as escorts go I tell anyone that is not from an agency that they can bring along anyone they want--mom, brother, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc. I learned long ago that the energy of trust on a shoot invariably brings along better photos. And getting comfortable with having a bunch of people on set that really have nothing to do but watch the process is a good skill.
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21320
Seattle, Washington, US
SKPhoto wrote:
I've seen several people mention a liability waiver. Seems a like a good idea. Everyone remembers the permission slips and waiver of liability your parents signed for school outings. And the liability waivers places like sports arenas have.
However a liability waiver is only as good as the people signing them believe them to be.
In practice you cannot sign away your or another's right to reasonable safety. The waiver is only as good as the jury who decides you were negligent and then proceeds to give everything you own to the escort who just sued you. That is exactly my point. Those who say "get a waiver" don't understand that waivers are generally useless when push comes to shove. Waivers are most often used to convince people they have no case when, indeed, they do.
To the person who said "nobody in the work area, but escorts in the lounge," I don't have a lounge. The door opens right into my studio. Yes, I'd have to tell the escort, "go away and come back later," which, let's be honest, isn't an escort anymore, it's a driver. I'm fine with drivers.
To those who say, "I don't have insurance at all, I'm just very careful," well... I hope that works for you. Me, I'd be scared out of my wits to not have insurance! I worked very hard to get to where I am, and I'm not prepared to risk it.
To those who say I have crappy insurance, you didn't read well. I have fine insurance for me and those acting under my direction. I choose not to pay EXTRA for insurance that would cover escorts. I could, certainly, but that's not cheap.
Would I be justified asking the escorts to reimburse me for those costs? Of course not.
And finally, to those who say, "stop it, if you don't want them, say so," I have said so. But this isn't about that. Like I said, I've said so. This is my reason for saying so. Let's discuss the issue, not levy ad hominem attacks and ignore the issue, shall we?
Photographer
Malloch
Posts: 2566
Hastings, England, United Kingdom
JimGL wrote:
My business partner and I own two large shooting studios in NYC and our insurance policy covers anyone that walks thru the door. And of course our business is incorporated and each of us(me a photographer and him a prop stylist) are also individually incorporated. Yes my commercial liability insurance ($5 million) also covered anyone walking through the door of the studio, IF they were a client or part of a properly invoiced member of the production team. However as a models escort they are not part of the production team or a client and as such they were not covered unless as previously mentioned they are required by law and are therefore paid by me or my client. With all insurance policies one should always read the small print with a magnifying glass. Once it goes to court it is too late.
Photographer
Quay Lude
Posts: 6386
Madison, Wisconsin, US
NC17 wrote:
I have to ask as well why some from of waiver hasn't been mentioned.
When I go to a barn to ride, there is a sign, in pretty much every state, that says that the barn is not liable if I get hurt. Period. Many barns will also have you sign a waiver to be allowed to ride on their property.
I don't know much about laws... but why is this not an option for you for the escort?
It really does seem to be a bit of a stretch as a reason not to allow escorts under the guise that your insurance doesn't cover them. And it is also apparent that you have a vareity of insurence that won't... and that there ARE other insurence companies out there that WILL. Maybe doing some research on other companies and a possible change of policy is all that is needed to be sure that ANYONE that walks in the door for longer than five minutes is covered. This seems to be a bit paranoid... but if you're looking for problems, then I'm sure you'll find them. Damn me but... I can't resist. So, what you know about law you learned in a barn. Precious. The signs don't mean shit. Ask an attorney. And god damn it can I just say it's spelled insurance? How can you repeatedly misspell a word they taught us in 3rd grade, WTF?
Sorry but your posts are so often full of this "wisdom" but in all truthyness... you are regularly short on fact, truth or any trace of any wisdom what so ever.
Now, please, put a shirt on! :-)
Model
Angel
Posts: 114
Buffalo, New York, US
Christopher, sounds like you have two options. Keep doing what you're doing or add more coverage. If your coverage doesn't cover the escort, don't allow them in the studio. Like you said why risk everything when you're not covered. Either that or add the coverage and the expense. One thing, have you shopped other insurance companies? Maybe someone else has the coverage you would like at a better price. I think that for really sound legal advice, take your insurance policy to a lawyer specializing in this matter and ask his opinion. As far as the escort business, anyone with me could me you, shake your hand at the door and say see you at the end of the shoot. No problem with that on my end. Nice work by the way, wish I lived closer to you, the cook book idea looks fantastic!
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21320
Seattle, Washington, US
Larry Brown Camera wrote:
Christopher ... If you don't want escorts fine.. no problem but the insurance reason you are dishing out is full of crap! If others want to buy into that fine. Tell me, please, exactly how it is crap? Better yet, why don't you name me as insured under your policy. If it's such crap, you won't have a problem assuming my liability, will you?
Put up.
Model
niuyf
Posts: 360
New York, New York, US
I own a riding stable... we have about 35 horses. My insurance covers those who are in our lessons program... not the parents or friends that often show up. Now making moms and dads sit in the car is an option. It's always an option, but it's a choice we make to allow them to come in and watch their kids tack up the horses and ride in the arena. My guess is... and I'm not sure mind you. But there could possibly be a bit more of a danger factor involved in navigating around a dozen thousand pound horses that are prancing around the stables than at a photoshoot. I mean, life is full of accidents waiting to happen. There's probably more of a chance of someone slipping on the ice on your front steps than having a flood light come crashing down on top of someone... but as stated a million times before. If it's a concern of yours... then say no!!
If a person has run their business for ten to fifteen years without incident, then I personally think a thread like this is nothing more than an attention grabber... if you've actually had an accident, then it wouldn't even be an issue... "No Escorts..." lol.
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21320
Seattle, Washington, US
Ania.K wrote:
If a person has run their business for ten to fifteen years without incident, then I personally think a thread like this is nothing more than an attention grabber... if you've actually had an accident, then it wouldn't even be an issue... "No Escorts..." lol. If you're prepared to take that risk, I'd never tell you not to. I, on the other hand, am very risk-averse.
As for whether I've actually had an accident, indeed, I have. Thankfully, the person who broke their finger was a very rational individual and admitted that he was being careless and it was his fault - there was no suit or other consequence. But there could have been. And yes, this is what caused me, at the time (this was about four years ago) to see my insurance agent and purchase basic liability insurance.
Photographer
Olaf S
Posts: 1625
Allentown, Pennsylvania, US
I'm curious...how much would it cost you to add the necessary coverage to your policy so that everyone one was covered?
Model
niuyf
Posts: 360
New York, New York, US
Then say no... It's a no brainer... end of discussion. Anyway, this has been fun. Thanks for the interesting morning chat.
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
starts banging head against a pillow
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21320
Seattle, Washington, US
Olaf S wrote:
I'm curious...how much would it cost you to add the necessary coverage to your policy so that everyone one was covered? The last time I got a quote, it was about $450 a year. Not a lot, to be sure, but still, not zero.
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
UIPHOTOS wrote:
I work out of my home and my insurance agent said the exact same thing.. all these responses add up to insurance fraud and put everything you own at risk..
It only takes ONE slip to have you homeless.. though I have never had anyone injured on my properties, I have enough coverage to cover my ass if they do..
Too many people look at these issues and think there is an easy way around them.. they obviously havent watched the news.. Insurance companies have people working for them whose only job is to figure out ways you didnt cover your ass..
Ask the people on the gulf coast how that extra $20 they chose not to pay is keeping them from rebuilding their homes..
Good topic.. and the $500k injury coverage my insurance agent added to my home insurance just in case grandma fell on my porch (his words) allows me to sleep well at night..
Why have extra unnecessary people around to potentially raise those rates...I dont either.. There are some photographers here like me who are too broke to own a home, much less any money that someone would want to sue for. I have read about how many photographers and models here can't even afford health insurance. The only insurance I can afford is auto ... and even that is mostly because of the laws in California.
Interesting how people here are concerned about their own material/financial risk of loss over the comfort of a model who may actually need an escort. I found this insurance excuse very weak. If you don't want models to bring escorts, then just say so!
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Rich Mohr wrote:
Ania,
The OP is obviously concerned with liability if someone gets hurt on the set. Let's think of it this way; you decide you will bring an escort to your sesson with me. Let's say during the shoot, your escort accidentally trips and hurts themselves enough to get medical attention. Who is going to pay for the medical bills? My insurance right? Or will you be gracious enough to fork over the money to pay for your escort's injuries? Think about it. This thread is about liability, nothing more. The other posts about escorts are nothing but people venting for and against them.
I personally will allow 1 escort to the shoot, no more. I have had models bring the kids and hubby along... just make for a very cramped space and way too many distractions.
Many people need to realize that running a photography business is much more than just taking the pictures...
Rich When shopping for insurance, simply look for a policy that will cover all those who enter your business of home. Back in the day when I used to have a nice business location, I had liability insurance which covered ANYONE who entered the premises. I still say this is a lame attempt at making excuses for not allowing models to have escorts.
If you have a limited amount of space, then I totally understand your limitations. Someone can drive a model to the location and pick them up later.
If I had anything substantial to lose, then I would consider getting a complete and adequate policy that covers against anyone who might happen to get injured while on my business premises. That is the simple solution.
Photographer
Olaf S
Posts: 1625
Allentown, Pennsylvania, US
Christopher Ambler wrote:
The last time I got a quote, it was about $450 a year. Not a lot, to be sure, but still, not zero. A $450 adder? Less than $40 a month? I think it's an easy choice. Cut out the lattes and it's paid for (!!!)
You will never be able to be 100% sure to avoid having people in your studio who might not be covered. Friend drops off model...Mom drops off model...or picks up. Someone needs directions...UPS guy, whatever. I had a client show up with her 10 year old once for crying out loud.
Also...what is the situation if you're doing a test/tfp? Strictly speaking you have not hired that person. That might be as tenuous as hiring the escort for $1 to be an assistant.
I say pony up. Peace of mind is a good thing.
Photographer
Jordan Hamilton May
Posts: 276
Lake Forest, California, US
Prepare a contract that clearly states you are not responsible for the safety of the models provided escort. Have both the model and escort sign it. Problem solved.
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Ania.K wrote:
Then say no.... just say no.
It's just that simple.... just say no! There are soooo many on this site. So many photographers that are fine with it, just as many who are not. So many models are fine with it, just as many are not.
I'm signed with agencies in LA, NYC, Toronto, Milan, Tokyo... I've shot with more than a couple of photographers... many many of them online guys. And I've never heard the excuse of liability brought up before. Several of them didn't want escorts, but it was always for the same reason.... "it's just either too crowded or because it kills the model/photographer vibe." If I didn't feel comfortable with that, I just said no... no problems. There's never been hostility over it. I agree with you! Why is there such a huge concern over this topic? I started a thread asking why people are so concerned and it got locked. I did learn that there is at least one photographer who was robbed at gun point by an escort. I think there have been few photographers murdered, but they are not alive to post here. Also there have been a few models raped and murdered too. The percentages of these things happening is so low that I find it the fear mongering ridiculous. It's reminds me of the media frenzy that blows every little incident into a monster story!
We are not allowed to post "outing" threads here. This is not a court of law. Also there are some people who like their privacy. Let's stop forcing our opinions on each other on an issue that is completely as negotiable as the "payment or tfp" issue, or many others that are subjective.
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
UIPHOTOS wrote:
Rich Mohr wrote:
Many people need to realize that running a photography business is much more than just taking the pictures...
Rich Too many people online obviously dont understand the business end of what they claim to be so business like about..
I was told by my insurance agent that if I am off on location and something happens, I am STILL liable along with the location if they had any liability in what happened.
So hobbyist or not, there are legal and liability issues that come along with this.. Either keep hoping no one sues you or get smart about how you operate..
How many models are prepared to cover the cost of anything that happens to their escort as long as the escort is with that from the time they leave their home until they are back home, not just when the shoot starts and ends..
THAT is what they are actually taking on..
Funny when the legal system is involved, people quickly become innocent victims who didnt know any better.. Just like those here who say "probably will" and "chances are" but as the law says, ignorance is no defense.. Yes, it is a business! Any commercial businesses can buy full coverage liability insurance that will cover anyone who is on the premises for any reason. I have worked for businesses that have complete coverage because they are in retail. You don't know who might enter your store and what for. I have had my own retail business before, and I bought coverage for anyone who might enter my photo studio. I shot weddings and portraits so I needed complete coverage!
If you want coverage while on location, you can get it! Shop around! Research! Read the fine print and don't let insurance companies rip you off!
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
JimGL wrote:
My business partner and I own two large shooting studios in NYC and our insurance policy covers anyone that walks thru the door. And of course our business is incorporated and each of us(me a photographer and him a prop stylist) are also individually incorporated.
And as far as escorts go I tell anyone that is not from an agency that they can bring along anyone they want--mom, brother, boyfriend, girlfriend, etc. I learned long ago that the energy of trust on a shoot invariably brings along better photos. And getting comfortable with having a bunch of people on set that really have nothing to do but watch the process is a good skill. Jim, Thank you!
We just did a video shoot for a television show in a dance studio. All bases where covered. One model did not have a car, and she was to travel for over an hour on the road. I told her to have someone drive her and we'd let that person stay.
Turned out that he got her there earlier than the host of the TV show we were shooting! We ended up utilizing her escort as one of the models in the fashion show we were taping! Happy ending! No problems!
Photographer
SKPhoto
Posts: 25784
Newark, California, US
Patrick Walberg wrote:
Let's stop forcing our opinions on each other on an issue that is completely as negotiable as the "payment or tfp" issue, or many others that are subjective. And have no forum postings at all about anything? My wouldn't that be exciting and a reason to come to here. Go stare at a blank wall if it offends you.
In a "forum", those of us who have these concerns, on either side, paranoid delusion or reality, throw our thoughts and reasons out there to a) get a better grip on what the problem is, b) become aware of possible hidden problems we weren't aware of, and c) maybe in a stroke of genius find a solution that is better than just all or not at all.
Photographer
fstopdreams
Posts: 4300
Chattanooga, Tennessee, US
Ania.K wrote:
I just think you like being alone with naked models... but what do I know... lol. I mean, I'd be curious to hear the statistics on photoshoot fatalities...
What a silly and over worked topic. If you don't want escorts then say no and work with someone else. I'm pretty confident in saying that, statistically, a lot more models die of drowning while taking a bath than are murdered by their photographers.
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
For those models and photographers who have already decided that they are going to include an escort at their shoots, these are the helpful steps to utilizing escorts;
(1.) Determine why you want an escort. If you are going to travel some distance, or if you are meeting someone for the first time, then you might consider having an escort. There are times when an escort will escort you to and from the door and that's it. I've had models who have traveled two or more hours one way, and I highly recommend they have an escort with them. An escort is a job determined by your needs.
(2.) Communicate with photographers as to if they allow escorts or not. Ask! There are many photographers who are escort friendly here. Not all photographers who don't allow escorts are bad and not all photographers who allow escorts are good. But always check first! Which brings us to ....
(3.) Never bring an escort uninvited! ANY person who shows up at a photo shoot or studio uninvited is trespassing. If you did not discuss with the photographer about bringing an escort before hand, then don't bring one. It shows that you don't trust the photographer enough to ask, and so you might as well not bother coming in the first place.
(4.) Talk with the photographer on the phone about his or her expectations of where this person who is escorting you to the studio can go or do while you are shooting. Some photographers will have a chair in the hall, or even a room they can wait in. Maybe the photographer is alright with escorts as long as they sit in the car outside. I have had models who were happy with these sort of arrangements for their escorts.
Then there are those photographers who might be alright with a whole lot more. I have been known to invite the escort to watch if it does not bother the model. I've had some models who brought models as escorts which turned into an even better session when I took pictures with them both. In those extreme cases, most likely we had talked already about it. If it's a TFP shoot, and everyone is fine with it, why not!
(5.) Consider who it is you are asking to escort you. If you have a jealous significant other, then maybe you best not invite that person. The only problem I have ever had was with a guy who just happen to show up at the studio when his girlfriend (one of the models) was being photographed. He being the weakest link ... had to leave. Boyfriends who insist that they be there to provide "protection" are not escorts! This could be considered stalking.
(6.) An escort is not there as a body guard. If you are afraid of the photographer, then don't work with that photographer. There are some photographers who might be afraid of escorts. I have absolutely no fear of people, so I'm different. But an escort is not going to guarantee that you don't get into an uncomfortable situation. Go with your intuition on people. If some guy with camera says he is a photographer but seems creepy to you, then don't shoot with him!
(7.) Some photographers welcome another person in the studio to help. Again, discuss this with the photographer. If you are doing a lingerie or nude shoot, then consider bringing a female escort to act as an assistant. I welcome it because otherwise I am going to consider having my own female escort assist you. I will do my best to avoid touching you. I will give you verbal direction, and perhaps use some mirror imaging to assist you, but I really like to have another person you and I both trust to assist us at more intimate photo sessions. In some cases, that can be your escort.
(8.) While on locations, some photographers might welcome someone who came as an escort to be security for gear or to hold things, etc. As a photographer, I would want to get to know your escort a bit before I would ask of such things. While shooting at a room in a large secure building in downtown San Jose, it was the security guards at a building who stole my backup camera. They were the only ones who had keys to the room besides me. When I walked the models out to their car, there was no escort to stand by and watch my gear. (Heck, an escort would have walked them to their car! I brought my main camera, it stays with me no matter what! The security guard was fired, but I never got the camera back. So I do utilize escorts who I know might come with you to make sure you get back and forth safely, but I will take your escort and put them to work if I really like them! But that's just me! Other photographers may not welcome this at all .... don't be offended if they don't.
(9.) Listen to the photographer. If the photographer allows escorts to the door, that is what it's going to be. If the photographer is alright with your escort sitting quietly in a corner of the room, then that is exactly what your escort is to do! Always allow the photographer to direct the situation. What destroys the relationship of photographers and models is if the model brings an escort who decides they should be more involved. An escort does not speak unless spoken to! An escort will not tell the photographer how to do their job! That is enough to have the escort be banished from ever escorting you again!
(10.) Absolutely make sure you have exchanged information as to when, where, and phone numbers with whom you are working with. Meet in advance if possible. Communication will ease fears. Get to know the photographer enough to be comfortable. Then maybe there wont be the need for an escort. Escorting is a responsibility. It can be done in a way that does not offend photographers or compromise the model.
Develop intuition. Communicate, ask questions!
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Angel Renee wrote:
Christopher, sounds like you have two options. Keep doing what you're doing or add more coverage. If your coverage doesn't cover the escort, don't allow them in the studio. Like you said why risk everything when you're not covered. Either that or add the coverage and the expense. One thing, have you shopped other insurance companies? Maybe someone else has the coverage you would like at a better price. I think that for really sound legal advice, take your insurance policy to a lawyer specializing in this matter and ask his opinion. As far as the escort business, anyone with me could me you, shake your hand at the door and say see you at the end of the shoot. No problem with that on my end. Nice work by the way, wish I lived closer to you, the cook book idea looks fantastic! He just said that if someone wants a driver, then it's ok. He doesn't need to let anyone else in the studio if he doesn't want to. Also I think that if a model has a MUA that she works with, that same person can certainly be covered. A MUA can also "escort" the model.
That other topic about when escorts bring a model. I have also had that happen! Many of the people enjoy their time working with me, and they tell a friend. Then they escort that friend as their way of introduction to me. I have not gotten a single model directly as a result of being on Model Mayhem. NOT ONE! I don't know why, but most of the models I've shot have come from word of mouth promotions from other models first. Then from OMP which I've been on since 2001, or Craigslist, ... not this site and not Myspace. But give it time ... I've met a lot of great bands from MySpace, so that's cool!
Photographer
Jean-Philippe
Posts: 397
Austin, Texas, US
Olaf S wrote:
A $450 adder? Less than $40 a month? I think it's an easy choice. Cut out the lattes and it's paid for (!!!) We are back to a dilemna... what if the escort is the one that was supposed to go to get coffee... now you have the escort covered, but no money for the coffee...
Hahaha
Christopher, I feel your pain with the insurance. You take insurance policy to feel that you are covered, to read the footprints and feel more threatened.
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Christopher Ambler wrote:
The last time I got a quote, it was about $450 a year. Not a lot, to be sure, but still, not zero. My family spends over $2,000 for the property that we have renters on. You have cheap insurance! I pay more than that for my car insurance!
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Olaf S wrote:
A $450 adder? Less than $40 a month? I think it's an easy choice. Cut out the lattes and it's paid for (!!!)
You will never be able to be 100% sure to avoid having people in your studio who might not be covered. Friend drops off model...Mom drops off model...or picks up. Someone needs directions...UPS guy, whatever. I had a client show up with her 10 year old once for crying out loud.
Also...what is the situation if you're doing a test/tfp? Strictly speaking you have not hired that person. That might be as tenuous as hiring the escort for $1 to be an assistant.
I say pony up. Peace of mind is a good thing. Damn! I know! I seem to remember paying more than that a few years ago when I had a studio! I held business club mixers though in my studio and one of the local business members was an insurance salesman. He made money off me!
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
SKPhoto wrote:
And have no forum postings at all about anything? My wouldn't that be exciting and a reason to come to here. Go stare at a blank wall if it offends you.
In a "forum", those of us who have these concerns, on either side, paranoid delusion or reality, throw our thoughts and reasons out there to a) get a better grip on what the problem is, b) become aware of possible hidden problems we weren't aware of, and c) maybe in a stroke of genius find a solution that is better than just all or not at all. HaaaHaa it certainly does not offfend me since I've started a couple of those threads! What I find offense to is that anyone would think that this is a black and white or right and wrong issue. It is certainly good to dicuss, but this will always be a subjective subject. Each of us have our own opinion on it, but we are ALL right about it too.
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21320
Seattle, Washington, US
Jordan May wrote:
Prepare a contract that clearly states you are not responsible for the safety of the models provided escort. Have both the model and escort sign it. Problem solved. Problem not solved. Such a contract is meaningless, as one cannot waive such rights. Please consult your attorney if you do not agree.
Olaf S wrote:
A $450 adder? Less than $40 a month? I think it's an easy choice. Cut out the lattes and it's paid for (!!!)
Also...what is the situation if you're doing a test/tfp? Strictly speaking you have not hired that person. That might be as tenuous as hiring the escort for $1 to be an assistant. If $40 a month isn't so much, please send the check. Otherwise, your point is moot.
As for trade, that's still payment, just in-kind as opposed to cash. It's still a contracted business arrangement. Not even close to hiring the escort for $1.
And let's be clear - that's not $450 total. That's $450 on top of what I already pay for business liability, theft and E&O insurance. Since I'm not a retail business, I don't have to insure myself against the general public coming in. My insurance covers me in my course of business. Since I don't have an open storefront to the general public, that's an option. A $450 option.
But again, since you're so cavalier with my money, please send me the $450 for this year's premium and I'll gladly shut up.
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